Bible Study Are The Laws Done Away With?

[Truthfrees]

Yes to those who were under the law of Moses, they were not optional.

I agree.

However, today for born again Christians you are saying the law of Moses is up to each person, which means it’s optional.

JLB

no - i'm saying it has been each person's choice since the garden of eden to obey God or not -

God NEVER forces anyone to obey except in rare circumstances like jonah and pharoah

nothing optional about it

 

[JLB]

i believe God's laws come with blessings and benefits for those who keep them - they are for ANYONE who loves God and His laws

God is no respecter of persons

I agree.


What we are discussing is what are God’s laws today.

Is physical circumcision God’s law for Christians?


Yes or no?


I say no.


Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. Galatians 5:2-3


Of course if we are not to become circumcised, then everything else in the law of Moses is moot.





JLB

 

[JLB]

no - i'm saying it has been each person's choice since the garden of eden to obey God or not -

God NEVER forces anyone to obey except in rare circumstances like jonah and pharoah

nothing optional about it

I agree it’s up to each person to obey God’s law and commandments.


What were are discussing is what are His commandments today for us as Christians.


Jesus fulfilled the law and now we don’t sacrifice animals, nor do we stone people to death for picking up sticks to kindle a fire on the Sabbath.


Furthermore we don’t stone people to death for committing adultery.


We are no longer under the levitical law.


We are not required to become circumcised or keep special dietary laws as were the children of Israel under Moses.



JLB

 

[JLB]

nothing optional about it

Ok.

If you want to teach people that it’s Gods law for them to become circumcised then that’s between you and God.


Here’s what Paul taught us.


Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. Galatians 5:2-3


If a person becomes circumcised because they were taught it’s God’s commandment for them to do so, then they are obligated to keep all the law of Moses.



JLB

 

[JLB]

no - i'm saying it has been each person's choice since the garden of eden to obey God or not -

God NEVER forces anyone to obey except in rare circumstances like jonah and pharoah

nothing optional about it

The question is will we be right with God if we don’t become circumcised.


IOW, is it a sin, to not become circumcised?




JLB

 

[JLB]

CERTAIN MEN said that - that is not a teaching of judaism

Judaism rejects Jesus as Messiah, so there is no salvation for those who practice Judaism.


The context of Acts 15, where certain men, came from Jerusalem, to the Churches that Paul raised up among the Gentiles, were Jews who believed in Jesus as Messiah, unlike those of Judaism, who were teaching Gentile Christians that they must become circumcised and keep the law of Moses n order to be saved.


Today, there are also groups that teach, that born again Christians are required to keep the law of Moses, which includes not eating pork or shrimp, and keeping the Sabbath.


I wonder how these folks came up with the idea that keeping the law of Moses meant, just keeping parts of the law of Moses, and not all the law of Moses?


Any thoughts on that?




JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

Yes to those who were under the law of Moses, they were not optional.

I agree.

However, today for born again Christians you are saying the law of Moses is up to each person, which means it’s optional.

JLB

so it is optional to murder or not? - lie or not? - use dishonest weights and measures or not? - show partiality to people or not? - covet or not? - be an honest judge or not? - quarantine infected items or not? - be kind to animals or not? -

 

[Truthfrees]

So you believe circumcision is God’s law for Christian’s?

JLB

i believe ALL of God's laws/instruction/wisdom are loaded with blessing and benefits

if anyone abides by ANY of them they will find out exactly what i mean

if they don't they will never know what i mean

 

[Truthfrees]

I agree.
What we are discussing is what are God’s laws today.
Is physical circumcision God’s law for Christians?
Yes or no?
I say no.
Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. Galatians 5:2-3
Of course if we are not to become circumcised, then everything else in the law of Moses is moot.

paul said FOR righteousness/salvation sake - ONLY for this reason is someone to not be circumcised

 

[Truthfrees]

I agree it’s up to each person to obey God’s law and commandments.
What were are discussing is what are His commandments today for us as Christians.
Jesus fulfilled the law and now we don’t sacrifice animals, nor do we stone people to death for picking up sticks to kindle a fire on the Sabbath.
Furthermore we don’t stone people to death for committing adultery.
We are no longer under the levitical law.
We are not required to become circumcised or keep special dietary laws as were the children of Israel under Moses.
JLB

there is no temple - sacrifices are only to be made at the Jerusalem temple

 

[Truthfrees]

Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. Galatians 5:2-3


If a person becomes circumcised because they were taught it’s God’s commandment for them to do so, then they are obligated to keep all the law of Moses.

all the parts that sound anti-law are ANTI-KEEP GOD'S LAWS TO BE SAVED/RIGHT WITH GOD

 

[Truthfrees]

The question is will we be right with God if we don’t become circumcised.

IOW, is it a sin, to not become circumcised?

JLB

God looks at your heart

if you honestly believe God is saying God's laws are done then you are doing what you think pleases God with a clean heart

i know better so i am in a different position

i will tell people how blessed i am by keeping God's laws but i will never condemn anyone for disagreeing with me or tell them i am right with God because i keep God's laws and they are not right with God

God's laws come with blessings and benefits - try it out and see

better yet pray and ask God if i am telling you the truth

NEVER keep God's laws to be saved or right with God - only keep God's laws for the blessing and benefits of applying God's wisdom to your lifestyle - obedience to EVERYTHING God says pays huge dividends - invest into obeying God and see what i mean

 

[Truthfrees]

Judaism rejects Jesus as Messiah, so there is no salvation for those who practice Judaism.

The context of Acts 15, where certain men, came from Jerusalem, to the Churches that Paul raised up among the Gentiles, were Jews who believed in Jesus as Messiah, unlike those of Judaism, who were teaching Gentile Christians that they must become circumcised and keep the law of Moses n order to be saved.

Today, there are also groups that teach, that born again Christians are required to keep the law of Moses, which includes not eating pork or shrimp, and keeping the Sabbath.

I wonder how these folks came up with the idea that keeping the law of Moses meant, just keeping parts of the law of Moses, and not all the law of Moses?

Any thoughts on that?

JLB

people say many things they do not understand on all sides of this issue

 

[Truthfrees]

Judaism rejects Jesus as Messiah, so there is no salvation for those who practice Judaism.

you really are misinformed/uninformed about judaism and messianic judaism

 

[JLB]

people say many things they do not understand on all sides of this issue

try keeping God's laws and you will see that you need God's wisdom on what He was even talking about on each law before you can properly apply it

almost all of God's laws have scientific evidence that He gave the BEST instructions ever given to man

eat scavengers and carnivores if you want - you risk your best health when you do

remain uncircumcised if you want - you risk your wife's health

you really are misinformed/uninformed about judaism and messianic judaism

Great maybe you can inform me and others who want to understand.



Is it a sin to remain uncircumcised?


It is pointless to attempt to keep any of the law of Moses, if one is uncircumcised, according to the commandment of God.

And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. Exodus 12:48


Do those in Judaism or Messianic Judaism allow uncircumcised males to participate in keeping the law of Moses?



JLB

 

[JLB]

judaism looks forward to Messiah's coming

Yes. My point exactly.

They reject Jesus as Messiah and Lord, and are still looking forward to their Messiah.


Judaism by definition is a religion that rejects Jesus as Messiah.

They claim He is a false prophet.


Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 1 John 2:22-23

Among followers of Judaism, Jesus is viewed as having been the most influential and, consequently, the most damaging of all false messiahs.[1]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism's_view_of_Jesus#cite_note-1

Jewish views on Jesus - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

JLB

 

[JLB]

if you honestly believe God is saying God's laws are done

Which laws?


I believe the His (10) Commandments are eternal and were His laws long before Moses was ever born, as Abraham kept them 430 years before the law of Moses was added.

• because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

If you mean the law of Moses, with its ordinances of animal sacrifices, and death penalty for adultery and feast days and Levitical precepts, then yes, the law of Moses has been abolished in His flesh, having been nailed to the cross, and taken out of the way.


Here are the verses that use that exact language.



And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Colossians 2:13-14




For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Ephesians 2:14-15




The commandments which are summed in loving God and loving your neighbor are eternal, and were in effect long before Moses was born.


The law of Moses was always temporary, and has been abolished because Messiah has come.



What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19

• It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come.

Do you believe the Seed, the Messiah has come?


Judaism doesn’t, which is why the still try to keep the law of Moses.





JLB

 

[JLB]

you really are misinformed/uninformed about judaism and messianic judaism

Do you consider yourself to be a Christian?


Oops. My bad.


I see your Avatar, that says “yes”.

Amen.


Question answered.


I asked because some in the Hebrews Roots movement claim otherwise.





JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

Great maybe you can inform me and others who want to understand.
Is it a sin to remain uncircumcised?
It is pointless to attempt to keep any of the law of Moses, if one is uncircumcised, according to the commandment of God.
And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. Exodus 12:48
Do those in Judaism or Messianic Judaism allow uncircumcised males to participate in keeping the law of Moses?
JLB

i have been trying but you are on a different track than i am

 

[Truthfrees]

The law of Moses was always temporary, and has been abolished because Messiah has come.

1. 1 Chronicles 16:16-18
2. Psalms 105:9-11
3. Isaiah 24:5
4. Luke 16:17
5. Romans 3:31
6. Psalms 111:7-8
7. Psalms 111:9-10

613 laws - http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm