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Are there contradictions in the Bible?

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#7 - Was Mary impregnated by a human or a ghost/spirit? Acts 2:30/Matthew 1:18

#8 - Are we accountable for the sins of our fathers or not? Isaiah 14:21/Deuteronomy 24:16

#9 - This is always a good one, why is the bat a bird according to Leviticus and Deuteronomy?

#10 - Did fowl come from the water or the ground? Genesis 1:20-21/Genesis 2:19

#11 - Do the righteous live or not? Psalm 92:12/Isaiah 57:1

#12 - What exactly were Jesus' last words? Matthew 27:46,50/Luke 23:46/John 19:30

#13 - Was there 7 or 3 years of famine? 2 Samuel 24:13/1 Chronicles 21:11

#14 - Who was responsible for moving David to anger, God or Satan? 2 Samuel 24:1/1 Chronicles 21:1

That should be enough to provide some discussion for a little bit. I do have more I'll present later.

cheers

Running out of time. These apparent contradictions are fairly simple to resolve btw, with just some further reading. Forgive me, but this list seems like the sort of list that atheists and folks who really have never actually read the Bible like to pull together, just to have some "proof" that the Bible is filled with contradictions, when just some further reading and study would easily resolve it. Sort of like getting all het up about the rabbit being said to chew it's cud, when in fact it doesn't chew cud, but nonetheless is a ruminant, via refection, chewing its first droppings and re-digesting it. The issue is animals that do not wholly digest food at one time.

May I ask why you're bringing them up?
 
These apparent contradictions are fairly simple to resolve btw, with just some further reading.

May I ask why you're bringing them up?


I agree to an extent. I think contradictions would cause more problems with holding the belief that the Bible is the literal spoken word of God. I have read the Bible many times, being brought up a Christian, and then questioning the religion as I got older and don't really have a problem with the minor contradictions that come up. I do think it's important to look into them and research them as I personally don't hold the Bible to be infallible or authored by God, so I simply like to challenge those that hold the Bible up above every other book ever written claiming to be authored by God and saying that there is no contradictions when there clearly is. Most the result of scribal errors and differing viewpoints but nonetheless characteristics of a book assembled by men not dictated by God. But that is merely my own opinion and I am open to having that opinion challenged as well as putting forth things that may challenge another's viewpoint. Makes for a good discussion and you never know someone may learn something.

I have to run right now but I'll check back later and will hopefully have some more time to get into a discussion.

cheers
 
I simply like to challenge those that hold the Bible up above every other book ever written claiming to be authored by God and saying that there is no contradictions when there clearly is.

I think it boils down to how we are going to define contradictions. Whether or not Josiah was 8 or 18 when he started his reign or whether Solomon had 40 thousand stalls or 4000 stalls hardly qualify as "contradictions" in my book, because these are simple things that truly don't matter in the long run. That there are what essentially could be called "typos" in the Scriptures, small errors in what scribes and copyists put down over the years, hardly affect the inspired word of God, nor do they change the message of the Scriptures.

Frankly, when someone gets all het up over whether or not Josiah was 8 or 18 when he began his reign, I get the distinct impression that one is fully OK with unbelief and is bringing it up as a type of "gotcha" thing, rather than because one has a serious issue with the inspiration of the Bible.

Other seeming contradictions are good to look at, if they drive the person who is struggling with the apparent contradiction to dig deeper into the meaning of the text. I did like the Ayn Rand quote, by checking one's premises, one usually finds that there truly is not a contradiction. For instance, the issue of wisdom. By looking at the apparently contradictory statements about wisdom, we better learn the kind of wisdom God desires for us, true godly wisdom, rather than the wisdom of this world which often is based in ignorance and is subject to change. Think for a moment that it used to be "conventional wisdom" that one should eat "Four Square Meals" a day and if possible, nap right after eating. Yeah, that led to good health.

Let me ask this: Out of this list of "contradictions" you gave here, what is the one that most troubles you as far as the inspiration of the Scriptures, the one that truly compels you to believe that the Bible cannot be a book dictated by God?
 
Seek,

I'd like to take a crack at those supposed contradictions too, if you do not mind. Handy did an awesome job, but I can't help myself!

I don't think I will do it tonight (I just got Halo Reach!) but I will get to them tomorrow.

As I stated before, just because Handy brought it up, numerical errors need to be taken all the way to the source. Hebrew is a VERY difficult language to translate for many reasons, and one of them is their numbering system is often hard to comprehend. If you look at some of the newer translations (and Darby's and a few other older ones) you will see that these translations do in fact fix the common translation error with numbers. Heck, English has a pretty easy numerical system when it comes down to it and people still cannot always get it right!

So though I am in agreement with Handy it is for a different reason. Those translation errors (there is another name, I prefer this one) are not errors in God's Word, but errors in man's eyes! The Word of God is written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. God did not indwell every English translator and write the new versions for them, His Spirit was most definitely in them to make sure they did God's Word justice, but He did not write through them, as He did for the original authors.
 
The KJV is not wrong as this is what the Hebrew reads, but the NKJV is not wrong because this what the Hebrew means.

Nice dance. "Daughter" = "Granddaughter".

SO the Hebrew is obviously in error, and the NKJV is correcting (in English, MAYBE) a mis-statement in the "closer to original" languages.

And why would you insert Scriptural cites that have nothing to do with the issue, and don't even say what you claimed they said??
 
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I think it boils down to how we are going to define contradictions. Whether or not Josiah was 8 or 18 when he started his reign or whether Solomon had 40 thousand stalls or 4000 stalls hardly qualify as "contradictions" in my book, because these are simple things that truly don't matter in the long run. That there are what essentially could be called "typos" in the Scriptures, small errors in what scribes and copyists put down over the years, hardly affect the inspired word of God, nor do they change the message of the Scriptures.

I'm with you here for the most part, I do think that sometimes these small 'errors' can effect the message though.

Other seeming contradictions are good to look at, if they drive the person who is struggling with the apparent contradiction to dig deeper into the meaning of the text. I did like the Ayn Rand quote, by checking one's premises, one usually finds that there truly is not a contradiction.

That quote is a very good one to think about when trying to reconcile contradictions, one must be open to accept new ideas and findings as we learn about this world around us.

You'll see while some of the contradictions are trivial, some, such as numbers 3, 7, and 8 become central doctrinal issues.

Let me ask this: Out of this list of "contradictions" you gave here, what is the one that most troubles you as far as the inspiration of the Scriptures, the one that truly compels you to believe that the Bible cannot be a book dictated by God?

The majority of my contradictions found come between what the Bible says and what Christians decide it means.

With the belief that God authored the Bible Himself and literally spoke the words to the authors who wrote them down, I simply don't see support for such a statement. Inspired turned into authored. If I say my band is inspired by such bands as Black Sabbath, Pantera, and Lamb of God, you would not expect music that these bands actually wrote and handed over to me now would you? No you'd expect a heavy metal band with a sound that might contain traces of each bands sound.

You also have the criteria that you use to say that others who make the same claim that 'God' authored their holy book are somehow wrong in their claim, forget to apply the same analysis to your own book. You believe it to be true so the rules change.

Observable evidence comes into play here as well.
 
I dont think there are any contradictions in the bible. First, God would not contradict himself; it would be a human misunderstanding. Second, All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction in righteousness. I believe the bible is 100% accurate and correct. Keep in mind that even though man wrote the bible, that it is inspired by God. Should we pick and choose certain things Jesus said because it is an ancient document? I believe since the bible is the instruction manual God gave us and he is perfect, that the bible is also perfect.
 
Seek,

I'd like to take a crack at those supposed contradictions too, if you do not mind. Handy did an awesome job, but I can't help myself!

I'm always interested in different points of view.

I don't think I will do it tonight (I just got Halo Reach!) but I will get to them tomorrow.

Nice. My gf brother just went and picked that up too so I'm assuming I won't see him for a couple of days lol.

As I stated before, just because Handy brought it up, numerical errors need to be taken all the way to the source. Hebrew is a VERY difficult language to translate for many reasons, and one of them is their numbering system is often hard to comprehend. If you look at some of the newer translations (and Darby's and a few other older ones) you will see that these translations do in fact fix the common translation error with numbers. Heck, English has a pretty easy numerical system when it comes down to it and people still cannot always get it right!

So though I am in agreement with Handy it is for a different reason. Those translation errors (there is another name, I prefer this one) are not errors in God's Word, but errors in man's eyes! The Word of God is written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. God did not indwell every English translator and write the new versions for them, His Spirit was most definitely in them to make sure they did God's Word justice, but He did not write through them, as He did for the original authors.

Interesting point of view. As you can see in my response to Handy, my own personal view of the Bible isn't really affected by these 'contradictions' but I do find some to present a 'hiccup' for those that claim divine authorship.

cheers
 
The KJV is not wrong as this is what the Hebrew reads, but the NKJV is not wrong because this what the Hebrew means.

Nice dance. "Daughter" = "Granddaughter".

SO the Hebrew is obviously in error, and the NKJV is correcting (in English, MAYBE) a mis-statement in the "closer to original" languages.

And why would you insert Scriptural cites that have nothing to do with the issue, and don't even say what you claimed they said??

Go look it up yourself, it is one of the easiest mistakes someone like you can make when reading the Bible! The Hebrew word for daughter and the Hebrew word for granddaughter are the same word. You have to remember, Hebrew is pretty much the oldest language. They did things different. But don't take my word for it, go ask a Jew or Pastor.

If you ask a new AG Pastor they may be able to help because I believe they take Hebrew in Seminary. Ask a priest, many of them know Hebrew. Or ask a theologian...

And no the Hebrew is not in error at all. The NKJV is making it easier to an English reader to understand, but it is not correcting.

And I added those because I wanted to help you learn more. it is technically relevant to the issue and it is also a completely correct statement that I made.

May I make an observation? You seem hellbent on proving the Bible wrong... Don't take that the wrong way, it is just the attitude I am picking up from your posts. It is a pretty reasonable observation, since someone is taking a clear and easy to understand fact and then trying to turn it into further contradiction...
 
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OK, Long post alert, but I thought I would address those three points you felt (and I agree) would be more substantial conflicts if they contradicted.

3 - Is Jesus equal to or lesser than the Father?
John 10:30 - "I and the Father are ONE."
John 14:28 - "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."


#7 - Was Mary impregnated by a human or a ghost/spirit? Acts 2:30/Matthew 1:18

#8 - Are we accountable for the sins of our fathers or not? Isaiah 14:21/Deuteronomy 24:16
I’m going to tackle this shortened list in reverse order:

#8 - Are we accountable for the sins of our fathers or not? Isaiah 14:21/Deuteronomy 24:16

Deut 24:16 "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin.â€

Isaiah 14:21"Prepare for his sons a place of slaughter because of the iniquity of their fathers. They must not arise and take possession of the earth and fill the face of the world with cities."

OK, this is an example of comparing apples and oranges in that the contexts of each of these texts are dealing with very differing subjects. The text in Deuteronomy is one of the civil laws of the budding nation of Israel. One of the civil rights of the citizens of the nation was that they could not be put to death for the crime of another. The text in Isaiah was part of a prophesy that the Lord gave to Isaiah about Babylon and the coming judgment that was going to be poured out upon it. It also has the distinction of being one of the texts that blurs from being about earthly matters to giving some clarity about heavenly matters, namely the coming judgment against Satan. The full context begins in Chapter 13, and is truly about earthly Babylon and the coming Medes. But, 14:21 is also referring to Satan and the devils, and that the devils will ultimately be destroyed. This isn’t the only passage that has such a dual meaning. Prophecy was often like that. However, in comparing this text in regards to Babylon and the text in Deuteronomy, there is still not a contradiction, because Deuteronomy deals specifically with a civil law and Isaiah is actually recording what God outright says is a taunt towards Babylon.

Another text similar to the Isaiah text, yet with a different meaning is Exodus 34:7 “[God] keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.â€

This too seems a contradiction of Deuteronomy 24:16 but it isn’t. Again Deuteronomy deals specifically with a civil law, whereas Exodus and other similar verses deals with both God’s mercy towards those who worship and His judgments against those who reject Him. The idea isn’t that someone’s poor innocent great-grandchild is going to be put to death because of what great-grandpa did, but rather that hatred towards God will breed hatred towards God and God will not ignore that.


#7 - Was Mary impregnated by a human or a ghost/spirit? Acts 2:30/Matthew 1:18

Acts 2:30 "And so, because he was a prophet and knew that GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT one OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONEâ€

Matthew 1:18 “Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.â€

Fairly simple, this one. Mary was a descendant of David’s as well as Joseph. Most scholars (at least the one’s who hold God’s word to be inerrant) believe that Luke is recording Mary’s linage, while Matthew records Joseph linage. Joseph would be the ultimate son in either linage, just that he was more technically Heli’s son-in-law rather than his birth son. For the Jews though, either way, via through Joseph (patriarchal order) or through Mary (birth) Jesus was considered a descendant of David’s. Keep in mind that even today, Jewish heritage is traced through the mother.

3 - Is Jesus equal to or lesser than the Father?
John 10:30 - "I and the Father are ONE."
John 14:28 - "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."



I’ve already given a short answer to this one, but I can expand a bit here. God, as we Trinitarians believe, is revealed within the Scriptures as Three who are One in purpose, One in nature, and One in essence. However, the Scriptures also reveal that each Person within God, has a distinction from the others: The Father, who is the One who Sovereign, the Son, Who does the will of the Father, the Spirit Who flows from the Father to indwell within us and intercede in prayer for us. The Son is One with the Father, the Spirit is One as well. It’s complicated, but God’s a complicated kind of Entity. Anyone who tries to simplify God is either a fool, or making their own god up to serve their own purposes.

As the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One in purpose and One in essence, they are also Three in revealed roles. Jesus is the One Who does the will of the Father. In this sense, Jesus humbles Himself before the Father to do His will. Philippians 2:5-11 makes this clear:

“Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.â€

Just to clarify the word “form†in this passage means the physical appearance of something, not an imitation of something.

At any rate, the two texts do not conflict, but rather gives us insight into how the Father, Son and Spirit interact with each other, and how the Son humbles Himself before the Father.

In a very sadly lacking and wholly imperfect way, my marriage imitates this. Steve and I are one, just as the Bible says, “and the two shall be made oneâ€. We are one in purpose. We are one in essence. We’re a team, striving in our imperfect human way to be united on all fronts. However, within our marriage, Steve is the head. I submit to him. This doesn’t make him better than me, or me more humble than him, it’s just the way we believe marriage to be and our marriage is far more unified and stable because of it. Marriage has been corrupted throughout the ages, because of man’s inherent sinfulness. But, had it remained what it was intended to be “the two shall become one†we would have had a fairly good representation of the Triune nature of God via marriage. But, admittedly, it’s hard to see it, even in truly good marriages like mine, because it’s too hard for sinful beings, like Steve and I, to get it right.
 
Missing the point -

May I make an observation? You seem hellbent on proving the Bible wrong...

Not sure what "hellbent" has to do with it, but while I'm NOT "Trying to prove the Bible Wrong", what I am doing is illustrating that there ARE "Textual errors" in the Bible, and specifically the KJV - which is the one I've read/used for nigh onto 63 years now, and which is the translation that I'm MOST familiar With.

That you can "invent" explanations for the original mis-translation of the Hebrew term for "daughter" doesn't NOTHING to alleviate the simple fact that THERE IS A TEXTUAL ERROR in the KJV in that regard - i.e. Absalom DID NOT have a "Daughter" Masschah/Michaiah. AN "error" is an "ERROR", and no amount of rationalization will make it go away.

On the other hand, IF you want to play the "Original language game", then you're AGREEING with the AoG that total verbal accuracy IS ONLY present in the "original autographs" (that seemed to irritate you a lot in earlier posts). SO which is it??

I believe that the Bible IS the ONLY STANDARD by which Spiritual truth can be judged, and the only RELIABLE source of information about what God's doing, and how He wants it done.

That DOES NOT depend on "complete verbal accuracy" in the text, and arguments (like yours) that INSIST on total verbal accuracy - are doomed to failure, since the facts simply DON'T support 'em.

So was it "8", or "18"???
 
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SO which is it???

"it is the original manuscripts that are the word of God."

or:

As for that thing about the Assemblies of God, my pastor and I talked about that and we are both disgusted with AG for doing such a thing without giving us reasonable time to pack our bags and leave AG!

It appears that you AGREE with me, and with the AoG that the English translations ARE NOT Error free - which is what I said to begin with.

"I ask this only because these books have maybe 7 or so of these translation errors."

Case closed.
 
There are so many 'surface' contradictions in the text I cannot begin to account them all, so will insert here one of my favorite contradictions.

James tells us that God is NOT The Author of confusion.

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

yet...we find at the Tower of Babel, that God DID confuse/confound the language of the people.

Genesis 11
4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
 
Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?
ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, HEARING A VOICE, but seeing no man.

ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but THEY HEARD NOT THE VOICE of him that spake to me.

How can this be? A friend at work asked me about this one???
 
Pard,

re: “[Matthew, Mark, and Luke] ...only talk about the second time the woman go to the tomb.


In the first visit, John 20:1 says that Mary M. saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb entrance. However, if Mark 16:3 is referring to the second visit, why didn’t she know that the stone had been removed?

Also, John has Peter going to the tomb and seeing the empty cloths before Mary M. has her encounter with the angels and the Messiah. But Luke has him going to the tomb and seeing the empty cloths after Mary M. has been told about the resurrection.


Also, when did Matthew 28:2 occur in the sequence of events?
 
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Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?
ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, HEARING A VOICE, but seeing no man.

ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but THEY HEARD NOT THE VOICE of him that spake to me.

How can this be? A friend at work asked me about this one???

Acts 26:
14And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

There are similar accounts in the Gospels when Gods Voice spoke.

John 12:29
The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
 
Bob,

I have always held that the Hebrew and Greek and Aramaic manuscripts are the Word of God and are free of error. Maybe I was not clear before. As for the AG "original autograph" I think you are confused. That term does not mean the manuscripts we have today. That term is used to talk about manuscripts that are long gone, IE the ORIGINAL manuscript given to Moses. This is why we had a beef with AG (which I attend, btw).

The KJV is very old, 400+ years. Even 200 years ago "daughter" in English could have meant granddaughter, so the KJV is not in error. Language changes over time, I am sure you are well aware of this. Heck, I'm 18 and I have seen it change over my short few years! Here is a link to the definition of "daughter", circa 1828: D » daughter › 1828-dictionary.com :: Making the First American Dictionary of the English Language Accessible

I thought I made myself pretty clear on the 8 or 18 thing, by the way. The Hebrew numbers are hard to read and the eyes of man read them wrong. This is an error on the part of man, and not on the part of God.

Sorry for the observation, it was unfounded. I was just curious, but I understand.
 
"Original Autographs"

"As for the AG "original autograph" I think you are confused. That term does not mean the manuscripts we have today. That term is used to talk about manuscripts that are long gone, IE the ORIGINAL manuscript given to Moses."

I was aware of the distinction. I've found that "appeals" to the "Original languages", are GENERALLY not terribly helpful in "getting closer" to the meanings of the text. I'm not sure when that disclaimer was added - It seems that It wasn't there in the '60s, but I could be wrong. Sometimes there are "insights" - but generally the English does it just as well.

And of course in the field of "theology". there's as much controversy in the "Greek/Hebrew" as there is in English (there are, after all, differing Greek Texts). I have the "Nestle" Text and I notice it DOESN'T match the "Textus Receptus" (on Blue letter Bible) in many cases.

I think it's interesting to note that in the case of the U.S. Constitution, We HAVE the "Original Autograph" (and enough ORIGINAL supporting documentation to choke a horse). It was written in the SAME language we speak today, and in the SAME culture generally as we have today. And even our own Government, and Supreme Court seems unable to decide - what it says. SO much for the "Intelligence of man".

And Biblically there there ARE NO "original Autographs". We don't even know for sure what language some of it was written in, or WHO (or combination of "whos") wrote it (even the Epistles are coming under some scrutiny nowadays). ALL of it was in "different tongues" in a WILDLY DIVERSE combination of cultures over thousands of years.

"I'm 18 and I have seen it change over my short few years!"

I can remember when "gay" meant "happy" or "colorful" - go figure.

The SAFETY in all this, however, is that the HOLY SPIRIT will not "energise" - what He didn't say.

I have a testimony of a Mormon fellow, who became Saved in the boiler room at BYU - by reading the Word of God in Mosiah 14:1-12 (Isaiah 53:1-12), and coming under Holy Spirit Conviction of sin -

The Word of God is the Word of God - wherever you find it, and the Holy Spirit "makes it work".
 
Our decaying language is such a sad thing. If you look at English dictionaries through the years you will notice that English is adding more and more words but is also getting less and less colorful and rich. Interestingly enough, we have a harder time describing in detail today than in the 1700s because our language has decayed. The Roman Empire had the same problem... In fact, a in depth study will show that nearly every great culture that collapsed did so in time with a decaying language.

It is a very evident thing though, our language is decaying and so is our society and culture.

Anyways, though there are no original manuscripts of the Old Testament the Hebrew manuscripts have been kept in such precise transcription that one could argue the only real change between them are because of the change in their own language.

We do have some of the first Greek manuscripts. We need to be careful with which ones we use. The KJV and the Amp. use a good one. The NASB uses a good one also. And rumor has it there are manuscripts in France that have been preserved from the original transcriptions.

I am also in agreement on the Holy Spirit. The Spirit makes due with what we give Him. There are Christians in this world without any Bible at all (do to their government or their language) and yet they are still Christian. Some languages only have one or two books in translation, so yes the Holy Spirit will make do with what is given.

This is actually why I have no problem with the transcription errors in the English versions of the Bible. My problem is when they are viewed as contradictions rather than errors of man.
 
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