Are you a conservative or a liberal christian?

[Corn Pop]

As we can see, Allah is saying the Torah and Gospel (the bible) is not corrupt. And the Torah and Gospel does not prophecy the coming of Mohamud. Only false prophets that would come and lead people away from the gospel. Both Jews and Christians rejected Mohamud because he is nowhere to be found and all his teachings and practices don't even line up with the Torah and Gospel. Even the pagans said Mohamud spoke myths and its written in islams own trusted sources.

The Jews had the Torah and the Christians had the Gospel of Christ until the bible was established and that was 300 years before Mohamud, and allah does not say its corrupt.

I would love for a muslim to show me Mohamud anywhere in the Torah or Gospel. Anything that even comes close to Mohamud.

Islam has a dilema because in the quran it says Jesus was not crucified and definately not the Son of God as thats blasphemy, and in the quran it says the Gospel the christians have is the truth from allah and the Gospel says Jesus died and rose again and Jesus refers to God as his Father over and over. That is a huge contradiction.

Is Allah saying the Torah and Gospel is corrupt?

Surah 7:157
"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel.

 

[Creative]

There is no such thing as a liberal Christian. Just Christians and fake Christians. adding the term "liberal" is just a way to try to justify calling Jesus a liar.

 

[Corn Pop]

Allah through the quran says the unlettered prophet should be found in the Torah and Gospel yet Mohamud cannot be found. One claim is he is the Prophet to come like Moses, yet we read...

Deuteronomy 34:10-11
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, In all the signs and the wonders, which the Lord sent him to do in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to all his land.

So as we can see Mohamud was not the one to come after Moses. Mohamud did not know God face to face as he recieved his so called revelations through a angel, and he did no signs and miracles and was a complete mess.

Jesus on the other hand was raising the dead and healing the sick and feeding 5000 people with two loaves of bread, and doing many miracles and showing great signs and wonders in the sight of Israel, was even raised from the dead the greatest sign of all, and Jesus knew God face to face he didnt use a mediator. (angel).

So we can conclude that Jesus is the one who fits the profile and was "like Moses", not Mohamud.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi. We can keep it simple, here are 4 verses, one from each of the 4 gospels. This is what Jesus said, not the Apostle Paul that muslims believe corrupted the word. This is Jesus speaking.

Jesus prophecys his death and says he will raise from the dead.

Luke 9:22
Jesus said: “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.”

Jesus says he will die on the cross for sins.

Mark 10:45
Jesus said: For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

Jesus says he will raise the dead on the the last day, thats a big claim to make as both in the old Testament and in Islam God is the only one who can raise the dead. And whoever believes in him he will raise them up.

John 6:40
Jesus said: For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Jesus tells his diciples to go out and preach the gospel after he raised from the dead.

Matthew 28:19
Jesus said: Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

If muslims believe Jesus as a prophet and his words, then Jesus is the one who said he will raise the dead on the last day, and only God can make that claim. Even in the quran allah says he revealed the gospel and Torah and it is truth and no one can change his words.

If our muslim friends believe in Jesus as a prophet, they need to know about him and who he was and what he claimed. Jesus refers to God as his Father although the gospel, that makes him the Son of God.

 

[Corn Pop]

Our muslim friends should look at the picture.

The quran says multiple times the Torah and Gospel is the word of God, Mohamud gave a promise to his followers and told them they could find him in the Gospel and Torah and they will find references that testify of him, he said the Christians have the Gospel and you can find him in there, and when we go to the Gospel the Christians had at the time of Mohamud that we still have today, we do not find Mohamud anywhere, all we find is multiple passages telling us NOT to believe in him.

He lied.

He told muslims that they will find him in those sources and mohamud said the Christians have the gospel and torah (the bible) and our Muslim friends look to the gospel and torah and try so hard as best they can to try prove and find Mohamud but nothing works. The Gospel automatically declairs the quran false because God is a Father and Jesus is his begotten Son and he died on a cross and rose from the dead and speaks in the gospel after he was raised from the dead, as testified over and over in the gospel, and the quran says God is no Father to anyone and he has no Son, and he did no die on a cross.


If I told you I am a prophet and promise you that you can find me in a source and it testifies of me and speaks about me, and you go to that source and it does not have any reference to me and in fact says the complete opposite that im a false prophet and totally contradicts my teachings you would have no option but to conclude im a false prophet and I broke my promise and I lied to you.

 

[Deussum]

I don't understand it what it has to do with whether people are conservative or liberal...

Conservatives interpret the Bible in a literal way.

 

[Creative]

Conservatives interpret the Bible in a literal way.

That is the definition of fundamentalism not conservatism.

 

[Free]

That is the definition of fundamentalism not conservatism.

There are those who make a distinction between literally and literalistically. Literally is what the authors intended and literalistically is most likely what you mean here by literally. This is a useful convention since we should be trying to understand what the authors' intended meaning was. What they meant is what we need to take literally. Otherwise, what is left for conservatives?

 

[jaybird]

I was raised to be a Muslim, I agree on the behalf of Islam about the argument between both religions against Jesus. Jesus held a good amount of knowledge about the creational power, however the belief that Jesus was the “Son of God” or God in the flesh seem very far fetched to me. Neither was Muhammad a God, but he was a messenger. The fact that so many Christians believe that only Jesus in all history of humanity was an embodiment of God is baffling to me.

there were many that followed Jesus and they believed Him to be a prophet, Jesus never once ordered His disciples to burn them alive for not proclaiming His deity. the teachings of Jesus never focused on this either. it would not become a focus until hundreds of years later.

 

[Randy]

I was raised to be a Muslim, I agree on the behalf of Islam about the argument between both religions against Jesus. Jesus held a good amount of knowledge about the creational power, however the belief that Jesus was the “Son of God” or God in the flesh seem very far fetched to me. Neither was Muhammad a God, but he was a messenger. The fact that so many Christians believe that only Jesus in all history of humanity was an embodiment of God is baffling to me.

We believe God has spoken to us by His Son in these last days not Muhammad.
Jesus can give you living water which will become a spring in you welling up to eternal life. Ask Him.

About God's anointedchrist)
psalm 2
Many objections but..
Why do the nations conspirea
and the peoples plot in vain?
2The kings of the earth rise up
and the rulers band together
against the Lord and against his anointed, saying,
3“Let us break their chains
and throw off their shackles.”
4The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
the Lord scoffs at them.
5He rebukes them in his anger
and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,
6“I have installed my king
on Zion, my holy mountain.”
7I will proclaim the Lord’s decree:
He said to me, “You are my son;
today I have become your father.
8Ask me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance,
the ends of the earth your possession.
9You will break them with a rod of iron ;
you will dash them to pieces like pottery.”

Psalm 110
Sitting at the right hand of power
The Lord says to my lord:a
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”

A priest forever by Gods appointment

The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
“You are a priest forever, (length of term=Forever)
in the order of Melchizedek.”(by Gods appoint not based on genealogy)

Isaiah saw Jesus's glory and wrote about him
Isaiah 53
Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

A son was promised
or to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Not just for Israel but a light to the ends of the world
he says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth."

His holy one will not see decay
because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, nor will you let your faithful one see decay.

“We tell you the good news: What God promised our ancestors 33he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:

“ ‘You are my son;
today I have become your father.’b
34God raised him from the dead so that he will never be subject to decay. As God has said,
“ ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’c
35So it is also stated elsewhere:
“ ‘You will not let your holy one see decay.’d
36“Now when David had served God’s purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep; he was buried with his ancestors and his body decayed. 37But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.

 

[childeye]

I was raised to be a Muslim, I agree on the behalf of Islam about the argument between both religions against Jesus. Jesus held a good amount of knowledge about the creational power, however the belief that Jesus was the “Son of God” or God in the flesh seem very far fetched to me. Neither was Muhammad a God, but he was a messenger. The fact that so many Christians believe that only Jesus in all history of humanity was an embodiment of God is baffling to me.

I like your thread. Much of the topic is a misunderstanding due to semantics which is why labels such as conservative and liberal are incoherent. The fact is that Adam was also a son of God as were all who have the countenance of God. The difference is that Jesus is the fulfillment of God's plan to quicken that in Adam which He knew would gradually be corrupted. The point of the bigger picture being, to show all sentient beings what is always taken for granted in the creation concerning God's Spirit, so that God would be worshipped in Truth.

 

[Corn Pop]

What did Jesus even accomplish in Islam. Hes regarded as a great prophet who was born of a virgin, done lots miracles, and was taken up to God.

From Jesus there was only two types of people. People who worshipped him as Lord, and in islam thats blasphemy, and people who rejected him.

So what did Jesus achieve or restore according to Islam as he was such a great prophet. Nothing?

 

[Corn Pop]

Allah wants people to sin according to islams most trusted sources.

Hadith Muslim 6621
Abu Ayyub Ansari reported that Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) said: If you were not to commit sins, Allah would have swept you out of existence and would have replaced you by another people who have committed sin, and then asked forgiveness from Allah, and He would have granted them pardon.

Hadith Muslim 6622
By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace (you by) those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them.

Jesus didnt sin, is he doomed?. Obviously not because God raised him from the dead.

 

[jaybird]

Allah loves people to sin according to islams most trusted sources. He wants people to sin. There is nothing greater than sinning according to Mohamud in one of islams most highly trusted Hadiths.

i think you got Muslims confused with US political leaders.

 

[Corn Pop]

i think you got Muslims confused with US political leaders.

I wasn't talking about muslims, I was talking about islam through its most trusted sources. But you are right about political leaders, Mohamud was also a political leader, well dictator to be more accurate. Thats according to Surah 4:65 in islams most trusted source that no one can have true faith until they make Mohamud judge over everything and fully submit to all his decisions.

 

[Randy]

What did Jesus even accomplish in Islam. Hes regarded as a great prophet who was born of a virgin, done lots miracles, and was taken up to God.

From Jesus there was only two types of people. People who worshipped him as Lord, and in islam thats blasphemy, and people who rejected him.

So what did Jesus achieve or restore according to Islam as he was such a great prophet. Nothing?

Jesus was made both Lord and Christ by God. Those who love the SON are loved by the Father. Thats christian.
Mortal flesh and blood can't inherit the eternal kingdom God promised to those who love and obey Him. That everlasting kingdom that can't be destroyed is ruled by a faithful High priest appointed to the line of David. At the 2nd coming with the sounding of the last trump of God the kingdom of this world shall become the kingdom of God and His Christ. Jesus will raise us up on the last day. That is the Fathers will.