Mike, could you go into more explanation about some of your points?
The word was not originally "camel", it was a Greek word that may have meant camel in English.
You mentioned a misquote of Scripture to fit my understanding. First of all, I hate when people do this, so if you think I did it, what part was misquoted? Was it the word "gate"? Right, Jesus didn't say "gate", but does that matter per the discussion? I might add that the reason I started the thread was to draw upon the considerable knowledge resident at this forum. I don't know all the answers, and wished to gain a higher understanding by asking the right people.
I agree that it is the mentality of a rich person that is the main hindrance to entering the kingdom of Heaven, as it is so much more difficult to realize how much we need the Lord. I think we're in major agreement here.
I have already read the entire chapter in question, including the part highlighted in red. I'm missing the pertinence. My original point was that this scripture *may* be subject to a basic translational error (in "camel"). Yes, God could just think it and camels would be falling through needle-eyes and lost souls flying up to Heaven en masse. How does that relate to a translation error?
That's all I have for now, but do you think your syntax is bordering on the ad hominem? You appear to be addressing me directly vs. the ideas I put forth. I think the TOS makes specific reference to this.
Real quick and the same account can be found in Mark 10.
(Edited, ToS 2.4, "Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice." Obadiah) (Edited ToS 2.2, "Do not ... sway existing threads toward a discussion or debate that is may be viewed as ‘Catholic’ in nature." Obadiah) The Word of God is intact, unchanged, and kept. You can read it knowing it's perfect, and the Holy Spirit can alert you when someone else doctrine or idea came in that was wrong.
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this one goes out by prayer and Fasting"
There is no Greek Error. Camel is Camel, is Camel. A camel can not go through an eye of a needle. Not possible. This is why the disciples were Astonished. They heard camel also with no possibility of the rich making it to Heaven. Jesus was not saying that though, and He was giving them a concept they yet did not fully understand.
I did not understand this Camel, rich man, Eye of the needle thing either, and heard all kinds of explanation on it. It took several years of foundation to get it.
The Rich Young Ruler came to Jesus, the Young man loved God, kept all the commandments. Jesus loved him. (Mark 10) he asks, What may I do to inherit Eternal life.
Jesus did not answer that Directly.......................(Go see how Jesus never let himself be interrupted, but finished what He had to say, then answered questions)
Jesus said,
Go sell all you have and give to the poor, then pick up your cross and follow me.
Jesus is giving him the steps to take that will answer his question eventually. That is How God is, He gives you something, then you walk it out by faith and possibly years later come to find what you were seeking becomes clearly known.
The young man walks away.
Jesus said, Exact Greek, and how they heard it
How hard is it for a rich man to Rule in Heaven.
No, it's more easy for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter into the Rule and way of God here on earth.
The disciples were focused on the mans question about Eternal life, Jesus never got around to answering that. He is talking about God's will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. Heavens operation here on earth. (Matt 6)
The disciples were astonished, who can be saved??? We left all and followed you.
Jesus said,
With man, it's impossible, but with God, all things are possible.
What would that be? Jesus is about to tells us.
With putting money first and mans way of obtaining wealth, it's very broken and limited. You won't get 100 fold in mans system.
No man has given everything for the gospel sake, the Kingdom's sake (Seek first the Kingdom and then everything is added to you) and not received 100 fold now in this time, and in the time to come, eternal life.
Jesus finished what He was saying, and answered the disciples question. He was not trying to make the rich young ruler broke, He was trying to set him up by putting it all in Heavens treasury and have his heart there with it.
The Kingdom of God (Rule of God and his will in Heaven for Earth) Takes a basket of fish and a few loaves that applies Heavens time and multiplication to it, that it will feed thousands. With man, that's impossible, with God it's very possible.
Takes a small thing of oil the widow had and it keeps pouring until she runs out of containers.
Takes just a tiny bit of meal, and makes more than enough to feed the prophet, and her and her son.
I hope it's at least more clear.
Mike.
