turnorburn
Member
Maybe you can find the answer in the article..
http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/obama-declares-war-extremism-extremist-according-definition/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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Are You An Extremist
- Thread starter turnorburn
- Start date
Maybe you can find the answer in the article..
http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/obama-declares-war-extremism-extremist-according-definition/
smaller
Member
Our persecution has always been "internal."
Looking on the outside only serves to confirm the reality inside. Believers mistake that our persecution is external. It certainly can be, but that is not the only avenue of spiritually adverse persecution, which I might observe, the "whole world" has been under from day 1 of Adam:
Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
And we ourselves were likewise, bound by an invisible adversary, prior to salvation:
Ephesians 2:
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
The above shows us that "disobedience" is in fact "a spirit." An adverse one. When we are saved we are 'divided' from that working, but we still wrestle with it in many many forms. Through temptations, trials, chastisements FROM God, etc etc because that spirit still operates in flesh via indwelling sin/evil present, making the flesh contrary to the Spirit.
So sounding the alarm bells in the external, is perhaps now and never was the point.
The enemies of Israel were many and external, but the real enemies were within their own hearts. Just as it was with Adam, right on down the line to the whole world, today.
IF we observe how God deals with spiritual disobedience, we'd see Him, Alive and Active in our world today, working against this spiritual adversity in the same manners He always has, by pouring GAS on the FIRE to inflame and raise that working, to the ultimate aim that everyone should be able to perceive that "all mankind" are guilty. Romans 3:19. And we are not "exempt ourselves" from that ruling because the spirit of disobedience is guilty and that ruling of God, that finding of God, won't change for anyone.
It's pointless to look externally. Entirely pointless. It only serves to prove the internal problems of man and our dire need, always, of Christ.
The Spirit is pitted against the flesh. The Spirit is not the 'ally' of the flesh. IF we wonder why the world is the way it is, we need only observe that fact and figure out that there other other matters going on.
The Spirit has every intention of making sin utterly sinful (Romans 7:13) and empowering sin to RESIST the things of the Spirit, 1 Cor. 15:56, so that the problems become undeniably OBVIOUS, which it should be to any christian, and GUILT securely fashioned to ALL.
And this binding, God Himself has wrought. Where we see Pharaoh raised to resist the people of God in the O.T. is a shadow of what is coming and has been cooking for a long long time, upon the 'WHOLE EARTH.'
Rev. 3:
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
What does any of this have to do with the question asked in the OP which was are you one of these extremist? We are discussing external persecution that is yet future, but soon coming. It has nothing to do with anything internal of the sin flesh thing you love to talk about, but what is going to happen to our external in that of physical persecution.
smaller
Member
I suppose if my observations are not "relevant to you" that means it's not relevant. I'm pointing to the fact that "extremism" is an internal problem. Therefore it's kind of pointless to look upon others or ourselves as "extremists" when we all have "the identical problems."
There is zero distinctions made by scripture between sinners:
Romans 3:9
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
So the "government" folk and the "extremist" folk are all in the identical boat. There is no distinction, except in the normal courses of "frictions" between sinners.
Persecution is internal with all sinners. Again, pointless to look to the outside, as noted in my observation. Do we think the body of death that Paul carried was any different by external persecution? Probably didn't change his state one bit.
Romans 7:24
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Do you hear the persecution? Was it by someone else, external? Uh, no.
Why is it then that 'christians' always try to make out that the "other people" are going to be the bad guys and the persecutors at some "future point?" Most unbelieving people today could care less what christians think/believe and see them as entirely irrelevant. And most likely paranoid to boot. See Prez. Obama's guns and bibles comment for example.
We all die in the end. How we get there is quite irrelevant.
You are missing the whole point of the OP. All that was asked if you see yourself in the list that was given. Do you not know that if the Government thinks you are an extremist according to this list that you are considered a terrorist here in America and will be delt with as such.
No doubt, but that is not what the discussion is about. I said that I do see myself in many of the numbers in that list as well as all of us should if we are truly being about our Fathers business and not evading in order to protect our self.
smaller
Member
Since when have christians NOT been persecuted? Is this some new/recent development?
Do we respond by arming ourselves, stockpiling food and being prepared to kill people?
Most of us know that a far larger threat to the wicked/evil world exists. And that is in engagements with God.
Is God Engaged in all these events? I'd say so, but how is more of the question, ain't it?
Are you a domestic extremist according to any part of that list in the OP? Are we not to be prepared for that which will come upon us for our witness and testimony of Christ or are we to be taken as a thief in the night? We speak these things to others as an awareness of what the Government is looking for as being a terrorist. Are you a terrorist according to this list? I would hope so.
smaller
Member
Are you really concerned about how the world sees you?
In Christ we pray for an end to all the insanity.
Ecclesiastes 9:
2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.
This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
No I do not care how the world sees me as I know who I am in Christ and I fear not that which can come against me or even kill me.
If you are called out by the government as being a terrorist will you deny that you are one?
turnorburn
Member
Your an extremist in Canada if....
Ottawa, Ontario — The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that Biblical speech opposing homosexual behavior, including in written form, is essentially a hate crime.
On Wednesday, the court upheld the conviction of activist William Whatcott, who found himself in hot water after distributing flyers regarding the Bible’s prohibitions against homosexuality throughout the Saskatoon and Regina neighborhoods in 2001 and 2002. The 7-judge panel consisted of Justices Beverly McLachlin, Louis LeBel, Marie Deschamps, Morris Fish, Rosalie Abellia, Marshall Rothstein and Thomas Cromwell.
“The Bible is clear that homosexuality is an abomination,” one flyer that was found to be in violation stated, citing 1 Corinthians 6:9. “Scripture records that Sodom and Gomorrah was given over completely to homosexual perversion and as a result destroyed by God’s wrath.”
Another flyer, entitled Keep Homosexuality Out of Saskatoon’s Public Schools, was written in response to the recommendation of the Saskatoon School Board that homosexuality be included in school curriculum. The Supreme Court declared the document to be unlawful because it called the homosexual acts that would be taught to children “filthy,” and contended that children are more interested in playing Ken and Barbie than “learning how wonderful it is for two men to sodomize each other.” The justices ruled that because the use of the word “sodomy” only referred to “two men” and not also the sex acts of heterosexuals, it was a direct target against a specific group of people.
Two other flyers that expressed outrage at the male solicitation of sex with boys in a local publication were not found to be in violation of the statute, in part because Whatcott’s citation of Luke 17:2 was not clear on whether it only referred to homosexuals. The verse, which he had handwritten on the handouts, quotes from Jesus Christ.
“If you cause one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better that a millstone was tied around your neck and you were cast into the sea,” it read.
The court insinuated that the Scripture could have been an issue like the other references if used in a way to pertain solely to homosexual persons.
Whatcott had distributed the flyers over a decade ago to raise awareness of his concerns about both the homosexual parades in Canada, as well as the vulnerability of children in a culture that promotes homosexuality. However, when Canada’s Human Rights Commission found out about the matter, they took him to court, citing him with a hate crime.
The Supreme Court noted in its opinion, among other concerns, that Whatcott’s use of the Bible to target homosexuals was a problem.
“[Whatcott’s] expression portrays the targeted group as a menace that could threaten the safety and well-being of others, makes reference to respected sources (in this case the Bible) to lend credibility to the negative generalizations, and uses vilifying and derogatory representations to create a tone of hatred,” the panel ruled on Wednesday.
It pointed back to the lower court ruling, which asserted, “While the courts cannot be drawn into the business of attempting to authoritatively interpret sacred texts such as the Bible, those texts will typically have characteristics which cannot be ignored if they are to be properly assessed in relation to … the [Hate Crimes] Code.”
The judges did note, however, that “it would only be unusual circumstances and context that could transform a simple reading or publication of a religion’s holy text into what could objectively be viewed as hate speech.”
Commentator Andrew Coyne noted that the wording of Canada’s hate crimes law is problematic because it leaves much discretion in the hands of law enforcement.
“The code itself outlaws material that ‘exposes or tends to expose to hatred’ any person or group, on the usual list of prohibited grounds. It is not necessary, that is, to show the material in question actually exposes anyone to hatred — only that it might,” he advised. “The Court then upholds the ban on the grounds that the hatred to which individuals might or might not be exposed might in turn lead others to believe things that might cause them to act in certain unspecified but clearly prejudicial ways: it ‘has the potential to incite or inspire discriminatory treatment,’ or ‘risks’ doing so, or is ‘likely’ to, or at any rate ‘can.’”
Whatcott has now been ordered to pay $7,500 to two homosexuals who took offense at his flyers, as well as to pay the legal fees of the Human Rights Commission — which could cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars.
“The ruling and the reasoning [of the court] is terrible,” he told reporters. “They actually used the concept that truth is not a defense.”
“It’s worse than I expected,” Whatcott added. “What it means is that my life is over as I know it.”
http://christiannews.net/2013/02/28...opposing-homosexual-behavior-is-a-hate-crime/
Ottawa, Ontario — The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that Biblical speech opposing homosexual behavior, including in written form, is essentially a hate crime.
On Wednesday, the court upheld the conviction of activist William Whatcott, who found himself in hot water after distributing flyers regarding the Bible’s prohibitions against homosexuality throughout the Saskatoon and Regina neighborhoods in 2001 and 2002. The 7-judge panel consisted of Justices Beverly McLachlin, Louis LeBel, Marie Deschamps, Morris Fish, Rosalie Abellia, Marshall Rothstein and Thomas Cromwell.
“The Bible is clear that homosexuality is an abomination,” one flyer that was found to be in violation stated, citing 1 Corinthians 6:9. “Scripture records that Sodom and Gomorrah was given over completely to homosexual perversion and as a result destroyed by God’s wrath.”
Another flyer, entitled Keep Homosexuality Out of Saskatoon’s Public Schools, was written in response to the recommendation of the Saskatoon School Board that homosexuality be included in school curriculum. The Supreme Court declared the document to be unlawful because it called the homosexual acts that would be taught to children “filthy,” and contended that children are more interested in playing Ken and Barbie than “learning how wonderful it is for two men to sodomize each other.” The justices ruled that because the use of the word “sodomy” only referred to “two men” and not also the sex acts of heterosexuals, it was a direct target against a specific group of people.
Two other flyers that expressed outrage at the male solicitation of sex with boys in a local publication were not found to be in violation of the statute, in part because Whatcott’s citation of Luke 17:2 was not clear on whether it only referred to homosexuals. The verse, which he had handwritten on the handouts, quotes from Jesus Christ.
“If you cause one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better that a millstone was tied around your neck and you were cast into the sea,” it read.
The court insinuated that the Scripture could have been an issue like the other references if used in a way to pertain solely to homosexual persons.
Whatcott had distributed the flyers over a decade ago to raise awareness of his concerns about both the homosexual parades in Canada, as well as the vulnerability of children in a culture that promotes homosexuality. However, when Canada’s Human Rights Commission found out about the matter, they took him to court, citing him with a hate crime.
The Supreme Court noted in its opinion, among other concerns, that Whatcott’s use of the Bible to target homosexuals was a problem.
“[Whatcott’s] expression portrays the targeted group as a menace that could threaten the safety and well-being of others, makes reference to respected sources (in this case the Bible) to lend credibility to the negative generalizations, and uses vilifying and derogatory representations to create a tone of hatred,” the panel ruled on Wednesday.
It pointed back to the lower court ruling, which asserted, “While the courts cannot be drawn into the business of attempting to authoritatively interpret sacred texts such as the Bible, those texts will typically have characteristics which cannot be ignored if they are to be properly assessed in relation to … the [Hate Crimes] Code.”
The judges did note, however, that “it would only be unusual circumstances and context that could transform a simple reading or publication of a religion’s holy text into what could objectively be viewed as hate speech.”
Commentator Andrew Coyne noted that the wording of Canada’s hate crimes law is problematic because it leaves much discretion in the hands of law enforcement.
“The code itself outlaws material that ‘exposes or tends to expose to hatred’ any person or group, on the usual list of prohibited grounds. It is not necessary, that is, to show the material in question actually exposes anyone to hatred — only that it might,” he advised. “The Court then upholds the ban on the grounds that the hatred to which individuals might or might not be exposed might in turn lead others to believe things that might cause them to act in certain unspecified but clearly prejudicial ways: it ‘has the potential to incite or inspire discriminatory treatment,’ or ‘risks’ doing so, or is ‘likely’ to, or at any rate ‘can.’”
Whatcott has now been ordered to pay $7,500 to two homosexuals who took offense at his flyers, as well as to pay the legal fees of the Human Rights Commission — which could cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars.
“The ruling and the reasoning [of the court] is terrible,” he told reporters. “They actually used the concept that truth is not a defense.”
“It’s worse than I expected,” Whatcott added. “What it means is that my life is over as I know it.”
http://christiannews.net/2013/02/28...opposing-homosexual-behavior-is-a-hate-crime/
smaller
Member
Believers are a terror to this wicked/dark world.
Philippians 2:15
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
We should expect hatred and resistance from darkness. It comes with the territory of faith in Christ.
1 John 3:13
Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
smaller
Member
I'd be very surprised if the court actually "commented" on the scriptures themselves. That can of worms is not typically allowed into a court room. If they did they were fools.
However many legal jurisdictions have laws that protect sexual preferences against discrimination, particularly when linked to government funds or agencies. I happen to agree with the system taking a hands off approach to this matter in NOT allowing this type of discrimination.
When believers start pointing out the sins of others they merely fell into religious hypocrisy. The man deserves what he got.
2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
When we are capital P Perfect, then maybe we'd have adequate eyesight to cast dispersion on other sinners. In the meantime however scripture does tell us we are no better than any other sinner. Romans 3:9
Be careful how ya measure. It could cost ya a bundle.
Matthew 7:5
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
There is a little known principle in the Word. That where Gods Word is sown, particularly of LAW, then comes Satan to BREAK IT in the flesh.
God has put the "whole world" under the spirit of disobedience.
The quicker we learn our own lessons, the better we are able to lend help, for others.
God has Commanded Mercy.
Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
I have better things to do than worry about someone else's sins.
It has nothing to do with us being perfect. Those of us in the Church are not to judge those outside of the Church. The world is going to do what the world does--live the way people live when they don't know God. But believers are to judge sin in the Church. We just need to be careful when we judge and not do it from a sense of superiority or self-righteousness but rather from humility, having addressed our own sins first.
turnorburn
Member
smaller.. you said: "I have better things to do than worry about someone else's sins."
When we preach the Holy Spirit convicts.. it can't be avoided.. unless we don't preach..
When we preach the Holy Spirit convicts.. it can't be avoided.. unless we don't preach..
smaller
Member
Brilliant deduction. God judges those on the "outside." They are 'concluded' in unbelief.
Again true. And coming to the conclusion of being "sinless" is NOT an option. Unless we have a passion for lying.
When we do that we'll see we're no better. Romans 3:9
We are called into Gods Mercy and Grace in Christ because of our "factual needs" of same. I would agree that sins that have captured the flesh, openly apparent, are not and can not be tolerable.
But our status as sinners hasn't moved one iota in 'belief' whether apparent on the outside or not. 1 Tim. 1:15 shows Paul's sight of himself, post salvation. He gloried in his weakness, knowing the Power of God in Christ is PERFECTED in our weakness. 2 Cor. 12:7-9
We do have issues and we DO have "need" of His Eternal Matters, shed upon our hearts. We are not called to make people sinless, but to turn them from the power of what and WHOM? Yes, darkness and Satan. Acts 26:18
When "believers" source their own sin, we are more apt to fear God, as we should. And God may be more inclined to deal MERCIFULLY and GRACIOUSLY with honest believers, than liars.
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smaller
Member
We should be the first to speak honestly to unsaved sinners about the evil present with us also, just as Paul related to us. Romans 7:17-21. We can not share Christ to save those we can not relate to in their captivity. And instead pretend otherwise. It is dishonest witnessing.
Divide and Conquer.
turnorburn
Member
This is the end result when we speak honestly to the unsaved sinner..
Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
smaller
Member
It's entirely God in Christ's call as to whom will be led to hear. But what they do hear should be honest on all counts.
Here is who is called:
Matthew 22:10
So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.