Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination ?

[Adullam]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

I don't agree with you!!!

The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is? Jer. 17:9

 

[childeye]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

We will be judged at least in part by our reputation in the world. What do people say of us?

Absolutely, cross-referanced with what we say about others.

 

[Adullam]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Absolutely, cross-referanced with what we say about others.

Very good!

 

[francisdesales]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

The "two" commandments by which we are told to abide with are, "To love the Lord thy God and to love our neighbor." Once one is "born again Spiritually" he has the Holy Spirit with him...

Until you refuse to obey the commandments. Then, you don't. That is obvious, since the Spirit of God's presence is validated by our faith working in love.

No love working, no Holy Spirit within... It is as simple as that. No matter WHAT you did 50 years ago. That righteousness will be forgotten if you become wicked. That's Sacred Scriptures you are arguing with, not me...

If you have a problem with these clarion proofs of your error, you need to sit down and discern WHOSE spirit you are actually following...

when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. Ez 18:24

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Heb 10:26-27

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2 Peter 2:20-21

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Amen, brother. There is a big difference between religion and faith. Religion is man trying to make himself good enough for God, and faith is allowing God to make us like Him. By faith, we enter into His Rest.

Hebrews 4:10 - "For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."

Another guy who follows the "sign of the times", rather than Sacred Scriptures... :bigfrown

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. James 1:27

Read it and re-read it carefully. Remember that it is the Word of God. The Holy Spirit has inspired this writing. We have here human action. It is what it is. {you} Keep yourself unspotted. Love your neighbor. It doesn't say "sit back like a puppet and let your 'faith' do it all...", as if you are on autopilot and can blame God if you are cast out into the night upon your judgment...

Religion is not a "bad word". Just like anything, even love, it can be abused. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater...

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

The human mind is the most easily deluded organ in the world. The more "sure" you are the more deluded you probably are. Faith springs from doubt a lot better than it does from our own certainty. In fact, our own certainty does more to kill true faith than any other thing save the wickedness of the human heart.

As usual, on this subject, you are dead-on.

Those who deny they have doubts are deluding themselves... Or they have not begun their adult life yet.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Absolutely, cross-referanced with what we say about others.

That's what Jesus said in Matthew's Gospel...

But SOME people prefer to ignore such things...

Regards

 

[JMJ]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

My friend, once you are "born again Spiritually" you "cannot" become unsaved...The Scriptures say, in 1 john 5:13, "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

God wants EVERY believer to have "utmost" assurance of their "salvation."

No person has absolute assurance of salvation. He can freely choose to reject or deny Christ by his sinful actions up until the moment of his death.

Believe is an action verb. Some people only believe for a little while and then they fall away from the faith through sin. If a person falls away from the faith, he is no longer saved:

Luke 8:11-14 "Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity."

The people who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away are no longer saved.


2 Peter 2:18-20 "For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped[a] from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning."

Peter warns the believers to not be led astray by false teachers or else they will be worse off than if they had never come to Christ at all.


Hebrews 10:26-27 "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries."

Sinning sins leading to death separates us from God. His Holy Spirit no longer abides in us when we sin spiritually deadly sins.


2 Peter 1:5-11 "But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

No one on earth knows for sure if he is one of God's elect. We must be diligent in our obedience to God's commands so that we can continue to have hope that we are one of God's elect. Until we die and are judged, we cannot be absolutely sure that we are saved.

 

[kjb1769]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. -Colossians 2:8
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. -Colossians 2:9
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: -Colossians 2:10

Complete sounds like it is done!

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

No person has absolute assurance of salvation. He can freely choose to reject or deny Christ by his sinful actions up until the moment of his death.

Believe is an action verb. Some people only believe for a little while and then they fall away from the faith through sin. If a person falls away from the faith, he is no longer saved:

Luke 8:11-14 "Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity."

The people who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away are no longer saved.


2 Peter 2:18-20 "For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped[a] from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning."

Peter warns the believers to not be led astray by false teachers or else they will be worse off than if they had never come to Christ at all.


Hebrews 10:26-27 "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries."

Sinning sins leading to death separates us from God. His Holy Spirit no longer abides in us when we sin spiritually deadly sins.


2 Peter 1:5-11 "But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

No one on earth knows for sure if he is one of God's elect. We must be diligent in our obedience to God's commands so that we can continue to have hope that we are one of God's elect. Until we die and are judged, we cannot be absolutely sure that we are saved.

Those that are, "born again Spiritually" are forgiven and cleansed of ALL their sins (past, present and future) We are no longer held accountable (other than the discipline of God if we get out of line) for our sins, due to Christ's work on the cross and then, the work of the Holy Spirit after we place our faith in Christ...So far as "assurance" goes, "1 John 5:13 states, "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." That's enough "assurance" for me, maybe not for you or others, but for me, it sits pretty well with my likeing...

 

[Adullam]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. -Colossians 2:8
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. -Colossians 2:9
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: -Colossians 2:10

Complete sounds like it is done!

The danger is applying the winners' wreath to our own heads. That is self-glorification. It is the opposite of the humility required of those who purport to follow Christ.

Complete means His grace is sufficient for us to be able to overcome as Jesus overcame.

 

[Adullam]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Those that are, "born again Spiritually" are forgiven and cleansed of ALL their sins (past, present and future) We are no longer held accountable (other than the discipline of God if we get out of line) for our sins, due to Christ's work on the cross and then, the work of the Holy Spirit after we place our faith in Christ...So far as "assurance" goes, "1 John 5:13 states, "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." That's enough "assurance" for me, maybe not for you or others, but for me, it sits pretty well with my likeing...

The gift of the Holy Spirit makes us MORE accountable for our actions...not less. A gift doesn't justify us. It puts us in debt of the giver.

 

[childeye]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

The gift of the Holy Spirit makes us MORE accountable for our actions...not less. A gift doesn't justify us. It puts us in debt of the giver.

How true. Great words Adullam, provoking warm thoughts. His rod comforts me.

 

[JMJ]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Those that are, "born again Spiritually" are forgiven and cleansed of ALL their sins (past, present and future) We are no longer held accountable (other than the discipline of God if we get out of line) for our sins, due to Christ's work on the cross and then, the work of the Holy Spirit after we place our faith in Christ...So far as "assurance" goes, "1 John 5:13 states, "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." That's enough "assurance" for me, maybe not for you or others, but for me, it sits pretty well with my likeing...

Please list the Scriptures that support your claim that if we are born again Spiritually, we are forgiven and cleansed of ALL our sins (past, present, and future). Thank you.

Here is a Scripture passage that contradicts your belief:

Hebrews 10:26-27 "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries."

Scripture was written for members of the Church so the writer of Hebrews was writing specifically to believers. He contradicts your statement that a saved person's future sins are automatically forgiven. He and I both believe that all future sins must be repented before Jesus will forgive them.


To believe in Christ means that we are currently obeying His gospel/commands. His gospel is His commands.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 "....when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,"

If people do not obey God's commandments, they do not believe in Him.

Hebrews 3:16-19 "For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

Disobedience to God's commands is unbelief. They mean the same thing in this Scripture passage. If a person disobeys God's commandments, he no longer believes in God and so he is no longer saved.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

The gift of the Holy Spirit makes us MORE accountable for our actions...not less. A gift doesn't justify us. It puts us in debt of the giver.

The Holy Spirit in a "true believers" life works to conform us to the "image of Christ." When we have the Spirit we are able to bring forth good works/fruit...As a "child of God" we are in "the body of Christ." The sin question has already been taken care of, "at the cross."

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Please list the Scriptures that support your claim that if we are born again Spiritually, we are forgiven and cleansed of ALL our sins (past, present, and future). Thank you.

Here is a Scripture passage that contradicts your belief:

Hebrews 10:26-27 "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries."

Scripture was written for members of the Church so the writer of Hebrews was writing specifically to believers. He contradicts your statement that a saved person's future sins are automatically forgiven. He and I both believe that all future sins must be repented before Jesus will forgive them.


To believe in Christ means that we are currently obeying His gospel/commands. His gospel is His commands.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 "....when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,"

If people do not obey God's commandments, they do not believe in Him.

Hebrews 3:16-19 "For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

Disobedience to God's commands is unbelief. They mean the same thing in this Scripture passage. If a person disobeys God's commandments, he no longer believes in God and so he is no longer saved.

My friend, I get the feeling your "not serious" about truthfulness, but seeking to bring about "contention" and argumentation and I don't play that game...I've been encountered before, by such "shenanigans." So thanks for your participation on this thread with me and I wish you the best..."GM"

 

[kjb1769]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

The danger is applying the winners' wreath to our own heads. That is self-glorification. It is the opposite of the humility required of those who purport to follow Christ.

Complete means His grace is sufficient for us to be able to overcome as Jesus overcame.

I think the biggest danger is not trusting in God who forgave all men by the faith of Christ!

I trust in them not in anything I do.

I trust that it is done. Finished. Complete.

Don't you?

 

[glorydaz]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

The danger is applying the winners' wreath to our own heads. That is self-glorification. It is the opposite of the humility required of those who purport to follow Christ.

Complete means His grace is sufficient for us to be able to overcome as Jesus overcame.

It has nothing to do with our ability. If our life is hid with Christ in God, then His Kingly Crown is all we need, and, of course, we have the crown of life. Because He overcame, we overcome. We're given PEACE, and told to be of good "cheer," because Jesus has overcome the world. John 16:33 - "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

Those who ARE BORN OF GOD have overcome the world because we've been justified by faith.

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

Those who are born again have "the witness" in us. We KNOW, we don't guess or wonder or worry.

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Those that are, "born again Spiritually" are forgiven and cleansed of ALL their sins (past, present and future) We are no longer held accountable (other than the discipline of God if we get out of line) for our sins, due to Christ's work on the cross and then, the work of the Holy Spirit after we place our faith in Christ...So far as "assurance" goes, "1 John 5:13 states, "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." That's enough "assurance" for me, maybe not for you or others, but for me, it sits pretty well with my likeing...

Why is standing on the Promises of God so hard for some people? I believe it's the "Ye of little faith" that's spoken of in the Word of God. "Their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more," is a Promise of God. Who can doubt it?

Psalm 103:12 - "As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us."

Hebrews 8:12 - "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."

 

[glorydaz]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

As usual, on this subject, you are dead-on.

Those who deny they have doubts are deluding themselves... Or they have not begun their adult life yet.

Regards

There are some that never have assurance.

Deuteronomy 28:66 - And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:

Doubt has no place in the heart of a child of God.

Mark 11:23
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Matthew 14:31
And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

There is no excuse for doubt or fear when we are the children of the KING, and there is no excuse for promoting doubt among the brethern. We are kept because HE is able...not because we are able. Praise be to God.

For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,