Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination ?

[Adullam]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

The Holy Spirit in a "true believers" life works to conform us to the "image of Christ." When we have the Spirit we are able to bring forth good works/fruit...As a "child of God" we are in "the body of Christ." The sin question has already been taken care of, "at the cross."

Actually the sin question is being taken care of through seeking and perseverance. Are we being obedient unto death? Sin is definitely an issue...as long as we remain in this body. We are to overcome through His strength and the character that is worked into us.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

I think the biggest danger is not trusting in God who forgave all men by the faith of Christ!

I trust in them not in anything I do.

I trust that it is done. Finished. Complete.

Don't you?

As the old song goes, "Blessed assurance Jesus is mine, Oh what a foretaste of Glory Divine."

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

It has nothing to do with our ability. If our life is hid with Christ in God, then His Kingly Crown is all we need, and, of course, we have the crown of life. Because He overcame, we overcome. We're given PEACE, and told to be of good "cheer," because Jesus has overcome the world. John 16:33 - "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

Those who ARE BORN OF GOD have overcome the world because we've been justified by faith.

Those who are born again have "the witness" in us. We KNOW, we don't guess or wonder or worry.

AMEN GLORY!!!!!!

 

[JMJ]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

My friend, I get the feeling your "not serious" about truthfulness, but seeking to bring about "contention" and argumentation and I don't play that game...I've been encountered before, by such "shenanigans." So thanks for your participation on this thread with me and I wish you the best..."GM"

I am sharing my understanding of the Scriptures and I use Scripture to defend my understanding. This is why I joined this forum. I invite others to share their understanding. I have no desire to be argumentative. I am always willing to agree to disagree. I have called no one names and I have accused no one of being a liar as some others have done on this forum. If I ever act in an un-Christlike manner on this forum, please call me on it.

Perhaps you accuse me of being argumentative simply because my understanding of the Scriptures does not agree with yours?



I do not believe that any person is guaranteed eternal security until he dies and he is judged by Jesus Christ and Jesus considers him worthy to enter into eternal life.

Luke 20:34-36 "Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, 35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."



1 John 3:2-4 "Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. 4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness."

What happens to Church members who practice lawlessness and who do not repent of their lawlessness/sinfulness before they die?

Matthew 7:21-24 "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’ 24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock."

If you do not respond to any of my future posts, I will be sure to not respond to any of yours. I, too, wish you the best.

 

[JMJ]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Jesus first forgives our sins when we believe and repent and are baptized. Any sins committed after Baptism must be repented or else Jesus will not forgive them.

1 Timothy 5:8 "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

A Baptized/saved person who denies the faith by his failure to provide for his own relatives is judged worse than an unbeliever and so he is definitely no longer saved.

Titus 1:16 " They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work."

1 John 2:4 "He who says, “I know Him,†and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

What happens to all liars if they do not repent before death?

Revelation 21:8 "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."



His free gift of grace given to us through Baptism reconciles us to His Father but it is our responsibility to continue to be reconciled until we die if we desire to enter into eternal life. We continue our reconciliation through obedience to God's commandments.

Jesus teaches us:

Matthew 19:16-19 "Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?â€
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.†18 He said to Him, “Which ones?†Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

It does not get any plainer than this in Scripture.



Jesus came to earth to do the work His Father sent Him to do. What was this work?

Luke 24:44 "Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."

Jesus came to earth to do/fulfill the things concerning Him which were written/prophesied in the Law of Moses, and the Prophets, and the Psalms.

On the cross, Jesus stated, "It is finished."

What was finished?

The things written in the Law of Moses, and the Prophets, and the Psalms about Him were all finished (fulfilled, completed), and the very last thing prophesied to be fulfilled (finished) was His death on the cross.

Jesus did His Father's will and this included His death on the cross.

Philippians 2:5-11 "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

John 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me."

We must follow Him (imitate His life of obedience to His Father until death) if we desire to be counted worthy of His Sacrifice and be considered worthy to enter into eternal life.

Luke 9:23 "Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me."

Matthew 10:38 "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me."

Romans 12:1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service."

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."

Galatians 5:19-21 "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Ephesians 5:3-6 "But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience."

 

[reba]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Sheesh JMJ

Most folks i know would have to live in the tub!

 

[jasoncran]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

since some will somehow accuse me of a works based salvation. i am not. one is cleansed whit whole in the act of justification but one can choose to regurgitate that and go back to the vomit.

if one sins it doesnt mean we are lost then and there being lost and is the finally loosing of salvation is process where we go from on fire for the lord to the exact opposite and or hating the cross.

one can never be so holy or perfect that no grace is needed. grace is needed everyday.

we choose dialy and as we do we grow in him this doesnt mean will not go throw cold spells or grow away it happens and God pursues us and we have a choice then to repent. god doesnt just say well you sinned i'm done.

no he pleas till we die.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

I am sharing my understanding of the Scriptures and I use Scripture to defend my understanding.

I do not believe that any person is guaranteed eternal security until he dies and he is judged by Jesus Christ and Jesus considers him worthy to enter into eternal life.

Luke 20:34-36 "Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, 35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."

It's on the record.

1 John 5:10-12 - "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."

1 John 3:2-4 "Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. 4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness."

What happens to Church members who practice lawlessness and who do not repent of their lawlessness/sinfulness before they die?

Church members or the body of Christ? There is a difference. Attending church doesn't save anyone, but being born again means we have eternal life. 1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." Born of God means dead to sin. We have been freed from the law of sin and death. Neither has dominion over us.

Being born of God means we have God's divine nature dwelling in us. 1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." There is nothing we can do to change or corrupt that nature of God in us. Though we dwell in this body of flesh, we are raised spiritually into newness of life. Until we're given new bodies, we will still sin, but it isn't counted as sin. His righteousness is imputed (counted) as ours at our salvation and on through our resurrection. We confess our sins, and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

1 John 3:20-21 - "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God."


Romans 8:10-11 - "And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

Matthew 7:21-24 "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’ 24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock."

If you think Pharisee or false prophet or TV evangelist, you'll have the answer to this one.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

It's on the record.

1 John 5:10-12 - "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."



Church members or the body of Christ? There is a difference. Attending church doesn't save anyone, but being born again means we have eternal life. 1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." Born of God means dead to sin. We have been freed from the law of sin and death. Neither has dominion over us.

Being born of God means we have God's divine nature dwelling in us. 1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." There is nothing we can do to change or corrupt that nature of God in us. Though we dwell in this body of flesh, we are raised spiritually into newness of life. Until we're given new bodies, we will still sin, but it isn't counted as sin. His righteousness is imputed (counted) as ours at our salvation and on through our resurrection. We confess our sins, and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

1 John 3:20-21 - "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God."


Romans 8:10-11 - "And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."




If you think Pharisee or false prophet or TV evangelist, you'll have the answer to this one.

A BIG AMEN GLORY...

 

[smaller]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

This entire topic should be put away based on the 'fact,' yes 'fact that there is not one single instance in the entire New Testament of a believer eternally losing their salvation. Not a one.

Can a believer fall in this present life? Certainly. This does not however equate to 'eternal loss of salvation' nor is such a position even mentioned one single time for any believer.

Yet the doctrine is pervasive. And why not? The doctrine fills pews with fearful believers seeking to assure their own hides and to enhance the business models of those religious businesses who have bills to pay. Gotta keep the audience on the edge of their seats eh?

Bottom line is that the doctrine of loss of salvation for believers is nothing but false authoritarian manipulation by the preacher class who have bills to pay.

It is reprehensible. And other believers who pick it up also take on a form of megalomania when they can spread it around and threaten other people. All while conveniently defraying same from them 'self.'

It is imho a wolf doctrine intent on devouring sheep.

In case you can't tell, I've grown a little sensitive to the position, and very often when I encounter holders of this destroyer of sheep doctrine, the hair on my arms will stand and alert me to the presence of that darkness in the heart of the holders and I avoid them like the plague for the darkness that they spread.

enjoy!

s

 

[smaller]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

The views expressed by this poster exemplifies the problems within Christianity today.

There are so many 'rules' concocted by various 'so called' preachers to threaten their flocks in order to keep and control them it's gotten just wild.

Baptism alone and the various methodologies to make it 'the correct form' in order to avoid eternal destruction number literally in the dozens.

And every other doctrine that comes along with the same stick is almost identical.

When will the sheep wake up and see this is nothing but bullying manipulation by self justifiers?

An evil man can do any number of external exercises to appear clean on the outside of the cup. I don't think God is fooled by any of it.

I got smart on this matter when my kids were taught in Roman Catholic doctrine (that proved out to be FALSE by RCC standards) that people who were not 'Roman Catholic' would fry like weiners.

My kids came home crying because Grandma and Grandpa were Lutherans.

Those types of people have nothing but the darkest evil in their hearts and they openly display it for any to see.

And even though these people openly spread about the destruction of believers who missed some jot and tittle of their particular damnation doctrines, if I speak out against such nonsense, I often get rebuked even though the other people openly promote eternally destroying believers as if that is nothing.

s

Jesus first forgives our sins when we believe and repent and are baptized. Any sins committed after Baptism must be repented or else Jesus will not forgive them.

1 Timothy 5:8 "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

A Baptized/saved person who denies the faith by his failure to provide for his own relatives is judged worse than an unbeliever and so he is definitely no longer saved.

Titus 1:16 " They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work."

1 John 2:4 "He who says, “I know Him,†and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

What happens to all liars if they do not repent before death?

Revelation 21:8 "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."



His free gift of grace given to us through Baptism reconciles us to His Father but it is our responsibility to continue to be reconciled until we die if we desire to enter into eternal life. We continue our reconciliation through obedience to God's commandments.

Jesus teaches us:

Matthew 19:16-19 "Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?â€
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.†18 He said to Him, “Which ones?†Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

It does not get any plainer than this in Scripture.



Jesus came to earth to do the work His Father sent Him to do. What was this work?

Luke 24:44 "Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."

Jesus came to earth to do/fulfill the things concerning Him which were written/prophesied in the Law of Moses, and the Prophets, and the Psalms.

On the cross, Jesus stated, "It is finished."

What was finished?

The things written in the Law of Moses, and the Prophets, and the Psalms about Him were all finished (fulfilled, completed), and the very last thing prophesied to be fulfilled (finished) was His death on the cross.

Jesus did His Father's will and this included His death on the cross.

Philippians 2:5-11 "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

John 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me."

We must follow Him (imitate His life of obedience to His Father until death) if we desire to be counted worthy of His Sacrifice and be considered worthy to enter into eternal life.

Luke 9:23 "Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me."

Matthew 10:38 "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me."

Romans 12:1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service."

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."

Galatians 5:19-21 "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Ephesians 5:3-6 "But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience."

 

[Adullam]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

This entire topic should be put away based on the 'fact,' yes 'fact that there is not one single instance in the entire New Testament of a believer eternally losing their salvation. Not a one.

Can a believer fall in this present life? Certainly. This does not however equate to 'eternal loss of salvation' nor is such a position even mentioned one single time for any believer.

Yet the doctrine is pervasive. And why not? The doctrine fills pews with fearful believers seeking to assure their own hides and to enhance the business models of those religious businesses who have bills to pay. Gotta keep the audience on the edge of their seats eh?

Bottom line is that the doctrine of loss of salvation for believers is nothing but false authoritarian manipulation by the preacher class who have bills to pay.

It is reprehensible. And other believers who pick it up also take on a form of megalomania when they can spread it around and threaten other people. All while conveniently defraying same from them 'self.'

It is imho a wolf doctrine intent on devouring sheep.

In case you can't tell, I've grown a little sensitive to the position, and very often when I encounter holders of this destroyer of sheep doctrine, the hair on my arms will stand and alert me to the presence of that darkness in the heart of the holders and I avoid them like the plague for the darkness that they spread.

enjoy!

s

The issue is clouded by those who seek to exploit God for the good of men. Satan only looks at the needs of men. But we must live to glorify God...not men.

So it sounds right that men would have an eternal guarantee of saving their own skins at the expense of Jesus. But this is humanism not Christianity.

Humanism is of the devil.

We are not created in order to be saved...but rather to bring glory to God.

 

[smaller]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

The issue is clouded by those who seek to exploit God for the good of men. Satan only looks at the needs of men. But we must live to glorify God...not men.

So it sounds right that men would have an eternal guarantee of saving their own skins at the expense of Jesus. But this is humanism not Christianity.

Humanism is of the devil.

We are not created in order to be saved...but rather to bring glory to God.

Ah, so belief unto eternal life rather than condemnation unto eternal death is 'saving ones hide?'

Were the adherents to 'eternal death to other believers' to apply their positions to themselves they would find that they cloak their hides in doctrines of protection for their 'group' and openly dispense eternal death upon others.

In this way they protect their hides and sell insurance to their adherents.

In reality however they openly dispense eternal death to believers without their particularly segmented forms of 'insurance.' A profitable worldly enterprise if one observes.

I have no doubt that eternal death and eternal life are BOTH held forth in the scriptures.

What is reflected in the hearts of those who hold eternal death to other believers is in fact the produce of their own internal reflections and the darkness that abides in their own hearts, openly shown.

Proverbs 11:30
The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.

Matthew 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

I have yet to locate a set of doctrines that grant ANY believer to sit in the eternal judgment seat of another believer unto ETERNAL DEATH.

The fact remains that zero such evidence is shown for such in the scriptures.

But a working of EVIL within the hearts of man surely arises when they reach for the tree of ETERNAL DEATH to other believers. In reality what is in their own heart is being shown, ETERNAL DEATH is their tree and their fruit.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Adullam]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Ah, so belief unto eternal life rather than condemnation unto eternal death is 'saving ones hide?'

Were the adherents to 'eternal death to other believers' to apply their positions to themselves they would find that they cloak their hides in doctrines of protection for their 'group' and openly dispense eternal death upon others.

In this way they protect their hides and sell insurance to their adherents.

In reality however they openly dispense eternal death to believers without their particularly segmented forms of 'insurance.' A profitable worldly enterprise if one observes.

I have no doubt that eternal death and eternal life are BOTH held forth in the scriptures.

What is reflected in the hearts of those who hold eternal death to other believers is in fact the produce of their own internal reflections and the darkness that abides in their own hearts, openly shown.

Proverbs 11:30
The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.

Matthew 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

I have yet to locate a set of doctrines that grant ANY believer to sit in the eternal judgment seat of another believer unto ETERNAL DEATH.

The fact remains that zero such evidence is shown for such in the scriptures.

But a working of EVIL within the hearts of man surely arises when they reach for the tree of ETERNAL DEATH to other believers. In reality what is in their own heart is being shown, ETERNAL DEATH is their tree and their fruit.

enjoy!

smaller

It is easy to make a case from the one side of the testimony of the bible. But we must look at the WHOLE counsel of God...

Jas 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

G2632
κατακρίνω
katakrinō
kat-ak-ree'-no
From G2596 and G2919; to judge against, that is, sentence: - condemn, damn.


Here we have a warning that a brother could still be condemned! This must be put into the balance with..."there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus...

 

[Adullam]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

To smaller:

Have you recently grudged against a brother (by esteeming him a wolf) for upholding the precarious nature of our faithfulness towards Christ?

 

[Adullam]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

It is easy to make a case from the one side of the testimony of the bible. But we must look at the WHOLE counsel of God...

Jas 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

G2632
κατακρίνω
katakrinō
kat-ak-ree'-no
From G2596 and G2919; to judge against, that is, sentence: - condemn, damn.


Here we have a warning that a brother could still be condemned! This must be put into the balance with..."there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus...

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

 

[smaller]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

To smaller:

Have you recently grudged against a brother (by esteeming him a wolf) for upholding the precarious nature of our faithfulness towards Christ?

Not at all. I recognize the difference between one fallen in battle 'at the present time.'

See as your heart sees. If your claim is that in your subjective mind and heart that you are fit to deem another believer eternally burned alive forever, I would submit the right to see opposite.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Adullam]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Not at all. I recognize the difference between one fallen in battle 'at the present time.'

See as your heart sees. If your claim is that in your subjective mind and heart that you are fit to deem another believer eternally burned alive forever, I would submit the right to see opposite.

enjoy!

smaller

We are not to be led by what our own minds can tell us...but rather seek the whole counsel of God as revealed in the word. There as many "good" verses that speak of a certainty of salvation as "bad" verses that speak of the losing of these attainments.

So long as we eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, we will discriminate on the side of what we deem as "good" for us.

 

[smaller]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

We are not to be led by what our own minds can tell us...but rather seek the whole counsel of God as revealed in the word. There as many "good" verses that speak of a certainty of salvation as "bad" verses that speak of the losing of these attainments.

As stated prior, I have zero issues with a believer falling away in this present life. We 'all' do have enemies don't we?

Why would I condemn a fallen warrior to eternal torture or death? I see that 'right' given to me nowhere in the text nor does there exist a single named Christian upon whom such a fate befell, THEREFORE it is a concoction because it doesn't exist.

Now, you speak of taking the 'whole counsel' of God.

Try this on for size:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

There is no reason for me to believe this does not happen to me, THEREFORE every damnation Word of God applies to that working in me that is of my ENEMY. I have no need to insulate myself from the applicability of EVERY WORD of God.

To me, the fruit of death is brought into my heart by my enemy.

So long as we eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, we will discriminate on the side of what we deem as "good" for us.

It's problematic to see the enemy 'with us.' That is a testimony to the veracity of that enemy. I have no need to jump on the neck of the defeated, to their eternal demise. Particularly seeing that it is not 'just them' involved.

Let's face it. The conveyance of 'eternal death' is how Satan has picked off the entirety of Christiandom at this point. Divided nearly every believer against everyone else all because we throw eternal death stones at each others and justify ourselves.

There are no excuses for me. I have to deal with the enemy that God has put upon me. We all have the same enemy. Other believers are not my enemy, nor do I desire to see any of them burn alive forever. Those who do have that desire have perhaps been tempted by the heady power they think they have in conveying that fate to others. I say they are more than deluded in thinking they have the power or knowledge to make that determination. But the pews are filled to the brim with such.

I left those seats in favor of LIFE. You are welcome to remain therein.

I would suggest however that no amount of correct doctrine draped over the presence of evil with any believer is going to spare that working from the inevitable fate that awaits the devil and his messengers and such are 'with man' without any doubt in my mind.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Adullam]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

As stated prior, I have zero issues with a believer falling away in this present life. We 'all' do have enemies don't we?

Why would I condemn a fallen warrior to eternal torture or death? I see that 'right' given to me nowhere in the text nor does there exist a single named Christian upon whom such a fate befell, THEREFORE it is a concoction because it doesn't exist.

Now, you speak of taking the 'whole counsel' of God.

Try this on for size:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

There is no reason for me to believe this does not happen to me, THEREFORE every damnation Word of God applies to that working in me that is of my ENEMY. I have no need to insulate myself from the applicability of EVERY WORD of God.

To me, the fruit of death is brought into my heart by my enemy.



It's problematic to see the enemy 'with us.' That is a testimony to the veracity of that enemy. I have no need to jump on the neck of the defeated, to their eternal demise. Particularly seeing that it is not 'just them' involved.

Let's face it. The conveyance of 'eternal death' is how Satan has picked off the entirety of Christiandom at this point. Divided nearly every believer against everyone else all because we throw eternal death stones at each others and justify ourselves.

There are no excuses for me. I have to deal with the enemy that God has put upon me. We all have the same enemy. Other believers are not my enemy, nor do I desire to see any of them burn alive forever. Those who do have that desire have perhaps been tempted by the heady power they think they have in conveying that fate to others. I say they are more than deluded in thinking they have the power or knowledge to make that determination. But the pews are filled to the brim with such.

I left those seats in favor of LIFE. You are welcome to remain therein.

I would suggest however that no amount of correct doctrine draped over the presence of evil with any believer is going to spare that working from the inevitable fate that awaits the devil and his messengers and such are 'with man' without any doubt in my mind.

enjoy!

smaller

Actually the work of God is often mistaken for a work of the enemy. Imagine being told to sacrifice your only son??? Would we not see this as evil? So we must be careful how we read the "bad" verses. While we seek to interpret the bible...it is actually interpreting us!