Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination
Eph 1:13-14 tells us how each and every member of the body of Christ was placed into Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit.. and that is AFTER they trusted in Christ, AFTER hearing the gospel, and AFTER they believed..
You are clearly stretching what Paul is stating in Ephesians. First, he never makes your statement about "each and every member". He is speaking to the small community in Ephesus. It doesn't follow that Paul means this universally to ALL future Christians throughout the centuries.
Nor does it say anything about a chronological order that you lay out.
Nor does he say it is the ONLY way to be placed into Christ by the Spirit. He says it is the means that the EPHESIANS were placed into the Body.
THEN we we were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise by God.. this aligns perfectly with 1 Cor 12:13 which tells us that we were baptized into that one body by the same Spirit.
I am not saying anything different about you being baptized into one Body by the Spirit through baptism. Through the faith of the Church in Christ, the Spirit of God comes upon anyone entering into the community. While normative that adults would require a personal proclamation of faith, it doesn't follow that this is the exclusive way into the Body. I have already brought up infant who die. Children who die before the age of reason. Are you stating that they are condemned to eternal hell?
Yeah.. maybe Christ was in me all that time and it didn't dawn on me til 25 years later..
Why is that so difficult to understand? There are a lot of things you don't know about yourself, but they still are true.
Ever hear of the story about the footprints in the sand? ;)
The one about two sets of footprints, one Jesus and one the other guy, and then one set during times of trouble - the one set being Christ carrying the guy? The story implies that the guy didn't know he was being carried...
It amazes me that people can come up with this stuff.. but hey.. as long as a person is baptized by some priest in the RCC while they're an infant.. no worries.. guaranteed that they're born again because the 'one true church' says so..
I suppose sarcasm is your way of trying to teach me the "truth according to Eventide"? I find that amazing...
I have stated, and you have agreed, that the possibility exists that Christ works in a person without their knowledge. A person is born "from above", not by your own work. But yet, you are amazed and tell me this is impossible???
The precedent was established during the Apostolic era, so I suppose you can be amazed with their decisions, the same gents who put together the NT bible...
I suppose you actually believe that each and every person who is baptized in the RCC is born again and saved, right ?
Yes. Forgiven of all sins. God died for ALL men, not just adults who belong to your denomination. Redemption is freely given. But we don't believe that this means they cannot fall away or go to eternal damnation.
You also understand that a person can NOT be saved again after they are saved the first time.. it's biblically impossible as it requires Christ crucified again.. and that's obviously not possible.
OK, what do you mean by "saved"? Obviously, it doesn't mean that you cannot be forgiven of sin again, since the Bible accepts that men do sin after receiving the Spirit of God. I presume you have read, for example, 1 Corinthians? Did you get the idea that Paul was writing to sinless Christians???
In the biblical sense.. and I believe firmly that there is absolutely NO NEED for an infant to be saved.. they're completely innocent.
I think we would need to talk about original sin before you understood the need for baptism into Christ. The bible says we were
BORN into sin, not that we are "innocent" - meaning "without sin" until later in life. There are other sins then just personal faults.
My poor Mom was often told that her children needed to be baptized asap because if they were not, then they could go to hell.. Yeah, nice comfort from the good ol one true church there.. thanks for that.
I suppose everyone in your "church" knows EVERYTHING about what is taught by pastor Billy Bob, right? Has it crossed your mind that perhaps, just PERHAPS, someone may not know everything??? Maybe Sister Mary was personally WRONG? Father Bob misunderstood something? You think because someone wears a black outfit, they are infallible?
Did dear ol' Mom even bother to crack a book to verify that??? Nope.
The Church doesn't teach that the unbaptized
WILL go to hell. They are consigned to the mercy of God. We just do not know, so it is foolish to pretend to "know" that a baby unbaptized is bound for eternal hell, esp. when the Church, for 1000 years, has taught informally the concept of limbo, which precludes such thoughts about eternally bound babies to hell.
Those who told your mother otherwise clearly were not familiar with St. Thomas Aquinas' teaching on this matter (which the Church accepts), OR that the Church never accepted St. Augustine's idea of mass damnatia.
Regards
totopic