Arguments over the Word

[von]

I don't believe I dodged anything. What do you want me to say? I don't need everything interpreted, you know I don't need a dictionary to tell me what brother means. You'll have to take that up with Heidi. Jesus had physical brothers and He also called other believers His brothers. What about it. Nothing to interpret.

Heidi - Will you please be careful how you state things. Thessalonians here needs it interpreted. It's too difficult to understand that when God says graven images, it means all graven images. You really need to remember who you are talking too. :D

 

[thessalonian]

I don't believe I dodged anything. What do you want me to say? I don't need everything interpreted, you know I don't need a dictionary to tell me what brother means. You'll have to take that up with Heidi. Jesus had physical brothers and He also called other believers His brothers. What about it. Nothing to interpret.

Are you saying those other definitios of brother are false ones? I am amazed that you people are so roped in to your traditions that you are not free to consider what a dictionary says. The bible does not just use the term brother for son from the same mother. So what in those verses where Jesus is said to have brothers tells you that the definition you force upon the verses is the correct one?

Heidi - Will you please be careful how you state things. Thessalonians here needs it interpreted. It's too difficult to understand that when God says graven images, it means all graven images. You really need to remember who you are talking too. :D

Ah, condescention and ridicule. Ain't it grand. I thank you for it.

God bless

 

[Heidi]

Nope. All I'm saying is that we should believe the bible rather than try to interpret it. When the bible says that Jesus had brothers that means that Jesus had brothers. When the bible says that we should not bow down to statues of people, it means we whould not bow down to statues of people.

Hmmmm. First of all I believe Jesus had brothers. From dictionary.com

A male having the same parents as another or one parent in common with another.
pl. often breth·ren (brthrn) One who shares a common ancestry, allegiance, character, or purpose with another or others, especially:
A kinsman.
A fellow man.
A fellow member, as of a fraternity, trade union, or panel of judges on a court.
A close male friend; a comrade.
A fellow African-American man or boy.


Ill post some more dictionary definitions if you don't like thise one. Seems like your going a bit beyond what is written when you claim the one definition you decided is to be used is the correct on.
Now if you can find me a verse that says "Mary's son Bob" or "Mary's daughter Vivian" I'll go along with you that Mary had other children.

I'm having trouble finding a verse that says "shouldn't bow down to statues of people". Can you help me out. Maybe it's in the NHV (New Heidi Version). : Thanks.

Ya might be adding a bit to scripture here. Reading the last chapter of revelations, I'm thinking there might be a problem with that.

God Bless

You need to read Mark 3:33-34, , "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you" "Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said; "Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."

So why did Jesus explain that to them if they already knew that those waiting for Jesus were not his biological brothers and mother? Therefore, that passage can only mean that the disciples were talking about Christ's biological brothers and mother. Your desire to change the bible to fit the RCC doesn't fly. Sorry.

Leviticus 26:1, "Do not make idols or an image or sacred stone for yourselves and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. For I am the Lord your God."

The bible makes it perfectly clear that we should worship the living God and not bow down to any carved stone which includes statues. But since you don't understand that passage, then neither will you understand deeper passages.

 

[Orthodoxy]

If the Holy Spirit is directing each individual by reading the bible, then that leaves us with a most disheartening picture of the Spirit of God, for the Spirit of Truth is at work spreading confusion and discord throughout the world. This Holy Spirit appears to be sabotaging the prayer of Jesus found in John 17 that His Church be one with Jesus as Jesus and His Father are One.

Is the Holy Spirit really infected with the cancer of division as your theology is seen to have?

The greatest misconception and error in the Protestant Reformation is that Christianity is essentially a faith that one can individually interpret and apply as one pleases. Burgerkingism IMHO or have Jesus your own way christianity. To the Protestant Reformation the myriad of protestant Christian denominations rather than being a sign that something is dreadfully wrong in protestant Christendom, instead testifies to the error that there are many paths to Jesus Christ. In the Protestant Reformation it is perfectly obvious that a person is free to choose whatever path suits his or her personal needs, desires and passions. In the Protestant Reformation if one doesn’t like a specific path or the true path of the Church, one can create his own with no consiquences or accounability.

Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalms 119:105

The Lamp is the Holy Scripture yes but to a person in the Protestant Reformation the PATH is what they personally make it in thier own personal relationship with "jesus". This is simple error. The path in this verse is that of the Church.

The Protestant Reformation can never lead to true unity in the Church as Jesus prayed for because each individual creates his own set of tradition and worship standards apart from the God ordained standards set by Jesus Christ in His Church. The varied, non-traditional forms of worship found in the Protestant Reformation divides Christianity.

If “believers†cannot without reservation unite their hearts in worship to God, can they ever be one with each other?

If the Protestant Reformation cannot be of one mind and one faith with each other then can they really be one with God? I submit the answer is no.

Unity in diversity makes God pluralism and divides the body. Diversity in the Protestant Reformation's worship can only be the product of self directed, self concerned individualism and the multiplied thousands of individualized denominations prove this point.

The way of a fool is right in his OWN EYES: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise. Proverbs 12:15.

Leaning on ones own understanding and trusting ones own heart is EVIL according to the bible, Proverbs 3:5,7, 2 Peter 2:2.

We are told that there is no personalized interpretation of the Scripture 2 Peter 1:20, yet each individual protestant seems to do just that lean on their own understanding and self interpretation of the Scripture.

If we are not to lean on our own understanding then where are we to lean?

Surely we cannot lean on the bible that tells us we cannot interpret it our own way. So where does a Christian go to seek counsel and get wisdom?

Is not the Church the “pillar and ground of truth†according to scripture?

Is the Church not the fountainhead of all truth that we are to drink from that does not require our own understanding ?

Christians need the authority, counsel, accountability and wisdom found in The Church, the Body of Jesus Christ. Anything less is play acting christianity.

Unworthy Servant

Orthodoxy

 

[thessalonian]

Nope. All I'm saying is that we should believe the bible rather than try to interpret it. When the bible says that Jesus had brothers that means that Jesus had brothers. When the bible says that we should not bow down to statues of people, it means we whould not bow down to statues of people.

Hmmmm. First of all I believe Jesus had brothers. From dictionary.com

A male having the same parents as another or one parent in common with another.
pl. often breth·ren (brthrn) One who shares a common ancestry, allegiance, character, or purpose with another or others, especially:
A kinsman.
A fellow man.
A fellow member, as of a fraternity, trade union, or panel of judges on a court.
A close male friend; a comrade.
A fellow African-American man or boy.


Ill post some more dictionary definitions if you don't like thise one. Seems like your going a bit beyond what is written when you claim the one definition you decided is to be used is the correct on.
Now if you can find me a verse that says "Mary's son Bob" or "Mary's daughter Vivian" I'll go along with you that Mary had other children.

I'm having trouble finding a verse that says "shouldn't bow down to statues of people". Can you help me out. Maybe it's in the NHV (New Heidi Version). : Thanks.

Ya might be adding a bit to scripture here. Reading the last chapter of revelations, I'm thinking there might be a problem with that.

God Bless

You need to read Mark 3:33-34, , "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you" "Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said; "Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."

So why did Jesus explain that to them if they already knew that those waiting for Jesus were not his biological brothers and mother? Therefore, that passage can only mean that the disciples were talking about Christ's biological brothers and mother. Your desire to change the bible to fit the RCC doesn't fly. Sorry.

I don't think you looked at the dictionary definitions I posted. You assume the ONE definition of brothers where there are in fact several. You do not examine the whole of scripture that talks about brothers. I will not claim I can prove that Mary did not have other children from scripture. But this verse does not prove she did. It proves Jesus had brothers but it does not define them as brothers of Jesus and children of Mary. That is your desire to force your protestant theology on the bible. I do not force a definition. I am simply saying that the question is not answered simply by forcing a definition you have rattling around in your head. It is perfectly natural for you to say "oh brother" that must mean from the same mother. That is the common usage especially for us. But for the Hebrews it was not the most common usage. Some of the other definitions were quite common as well. We have other words for other types of relatives. They did not.

Leviticus 26:1, "Do not make idols or an image or sacred stone for yourselves and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. For I am the Lord your God."

The bible makes it perfectly clear that we should worship the living God and not bow down to any carved stone which includes statues. But since you don't understand that passage, then neither will you understand deeper passages.

Well the problem is that in other places God does in fact tell them to make imgages. I.e. the cheribum on the mercy seat, the ark of the covenant, the bronze serpant. The prohibition against making images in scripture is against making them for the purpose of worship. Our use of statues is for the purpose of reminding us about men and women whom God worked miracles in their lives, and brought them to great faith in HIM. He is the end result of our focus. We do not worship them. We acknowledge his greatness in their lives. All I have time for at the moment. I'll post some passages later.

 

[Heidi]

If the Holy Spirit is directing each individual by reading the bible, then that leaves us with a most disheartening picture of the Spirit of God, for the Spirit of Truth is at work spreading confusion and discord throughout the world. This Holy Spirit appears to be sabotaging the prayer of Jesus found in John 17 that His Church be one with Jesus as Jesus and His Father are One.

Is the Holy Spirit really infected with the cancer of division as your theology is seen to have?

The greatest misconception and error in the Protestant Reformation is that Christianity is essentially a faith that one can individually interpret and apply as one pleases. Burgerkingism IMHO or have Jesus your own way christianity. To the Protestant Reformation the myriad of protestant Christian denominations rather than being a sign that something is dreadfully wrong in protestant Christendom, instead testifies to the error that there are many paths to Jesus Christ. In the Protestant Reformation it is perfectly obvious that a person is free to choose whatever path suits his or her personal needs, desires and passions. In the Protestant Reformation if one doesn’t like a specific path or the true path of the Church, one can create his own with no consiquences or accounability.

Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalms 119:105

The Lamp is the Holy Scripture yes but to a person in the Protestant Reformation the PATH is what they personally make it in thier own personal relationship with "jesus". This is simple error. The path in this verse is that of the Church.

The Protestant Reformation can never lead to true unity in the Church as Jesus prayed for because each individual creates his own set of tradition and worship standards apart from the God ordained standards set by Jesus Christ in His Church. The varied, non-traditional forms of worship found in the Protestant Reformation divides Christianity.

If “believers†cannot without reservation unite their hearts in worship to God, can they ever be one with each other?

If the Protestant Reformation cannot be of one mind and one faith with each other then can they really be one with God? I submit the answer is no.

Unity in diversity makes God pluralism and divides the body. Diversity in the Protestant Reformation's worship can only be the product of self directed, self concerned individualism and the multiplied thousands of individualized denominations prove this point.

The way of a fool is right in his OWN EYES: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise. Proverbs 12:15.

Leaning on ones own understanding and trusting ones own heart is EVIL according to the bible, Proverbs 3:5,7, 2 Peter 2:2.

We are told that there is no personalized interpretation of the Scripture 2 Peter 1:20, yet each individual protestant seems to do just that lean on their own understanding and self interpretation of the Scripture.

If we are not to lean on our own understanding then where are we to lean?

Surely we cannot lean on the bible that tells us we cannot interpret it our own way. So where does a Christian go to seek counsel and get wisdom?

Is not the Church the “pillar and ground of truth†according to scripture?

Is the Church not the fountainhead of all truth that we are to drink from that does not require our own understanding ?

Christians need the authority, counsel, accountability and wisdom found in The Church, the Body of Jesus Christ. Anything less is play acting christianity.

Unworthy Servant

Orthodoxy

Ture believers can all be one with each other if we all believe the bible. But many do not. And that is what causes division between us. Paul tells us exactly that in 1Corinthians: 3. But again, many do not believe him.

When people add, subract, words and phrases to the bible, they are making up their own bible. When I became a believer, I did not have any previous teaching on what the bible means so I read it with an oepn mind. Therefore, when I read that Jesus had brothers, I believed it. I did not try to change that sentence because someone had previously told me it was wrong. All I'm interested in is what the bible says, not in what "I think it says." The words of the bible exist outside our human minds. They are separate from us. And all we have to do is believe them, not filter them through our human mind.

But Paul also tells us that there will be divisions among us to show who is approved by God and who is not. Those who believe every word the bible says are approved by God because the Word itself is God. "And the word was God." And the Word became flesh and dwelled among us." Those who argue with the Word are not approved by God. The Word does not say that Mary was a virgin all her life, men do. But the sin of pride will not allow those who contradict the bible to ever admit they're wrong. So there will always be divisions among us. I for one, believe every word the bible says, so my conscience is clear even if some people try to get me to go against the word of God. The notion that we can change the words of the bible around to, in some cases, mean their opposite under the guise of "interpretation" is hogwash. It doesn't fool true believers and it certainly doesn't fool God. :angel:

 

[Barry Zuckerkorn]

When I became a believer, I did not have any previous teaching on what the bible means so I read it with an oepn mind. Therefore, when I read that Jesus had brothers, I believed it. I did not try to change that sentence because someone had previously told me it was wrong.

So when Jesus of the Bible says, "my Brothers and my Sisters," is he referring to his biological siblings?

 

[Orthodox Christian]

When I became a believer, I did not have any previous teaching on what the bible means so I read it with an oepn mind. Therefore, when I read that Jesus had brothers, I believed it.

"This is my Body," however, is not believed, but allegorized, by the one who does not add to or take away words from the bible (allegedly).

:roll:

 

[Novice]

It seems some would paraphrase Peter as having written: "All of you, clothe yourself with infallibility and condescension toward one another, because God opposes the humble, but priveleges the Proud. Exalt yourself over your brethren, therefore, because if he disagrees with you, he clearly is not a true believer, nor is he filled with the Holy Spirit".

But wait, that's actually not what Peter wrote. He says (1 Peter 5:5):

All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because,
"God opposes the proud
but gives grace to the humble."[a] 6Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. 7Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.

Paul and Peter disagreed on more than one occasion (clearly there were at least two Holy Spirits back then, as well), but on the topic of "being not wise in your own understanding", they seemed to have agreed, as Paul wrote the Ephesians (5:20-21) that they should be:

20Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
21Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

I think this is interesting. Submitting yourself to one another "IN THE FEAR OF GOD!" Wow. I guess if we exalt ourselves over each other, preen our theological feathers and mock others, we must truly be riling up the Lord Most High.

On that basis alone, (and the danger posed by my own sarcastic tendencies) I'll refrain from further comment on this thread.

The Lord Bless each of us, and instruct each of us as is mete for our understanding, that in humility and wonder, we may find Him in our midst, here among our brethren. Come Lord Jesus.

 

[von]

Thessolonians- Read friend, read. What did I say to cause you to think that I think there is only one definition for "brother"?
Jesus had brothers and sisters. Matt. 13:55,56. John 2:12.
Mark 3:32-35, a different meaning.
First of all we were not talking about all of the meanings for brother. We were talking about Jesus' biological brothers. What do you have to suggest that the Bible is not talking about "brother", son of the same woman? What is your point? You talk in circles.
The Bible clearly says do not bow down to anything other than God. Now look, I'm not being sarcastic here, for what reason would a person want to bow down to an image of another human being? Also, can you show me where it says to bow down to statues of men?

 

[thessalonian]

Thessolonians- Read friend, read. What did I say to cause you to think that I think there is only one definition for "brother"?
Jesus had brothers and sisters. Matt. 13:55,56. John 2:12.
Mark 3:32-35, a different meaning.
First of all we were not talking about all of the meanings for brother. We were talking about Jesus' biological brothers. What do you have to suggest that the Bible is not talking about "brother", son of the same woman? What is your point? You talk in circles.
The Bible clearly says do not bow down to anything other than God. Now look, I'm not being sarcastic here, for what reason would a person want to bow down to an image of another human being? Also, can you show me where it says to bow down to statues of men?

I read. You need to think. What do you have to indicate that the definition, from the same womb, i.e. Mary's is the source of the brotherhood in the three passages you listed? NOT ONE SINGLE VERSE SAYS MARY'S SON BOB. You assume biological brother but we need more evidence than just the word brother which has multiple meanings. If I say, look at the flies. Do you somehow know that I am talking about the black ugly maggott producing kind or a collection of flies that I go trout fishing with? Prove that you can show that they are from the womb of Mary. Where's you verse. Why does it always say brothers of Jesus. It is much more common in scripture to tell who the father and/or mother of an individual is. Simon bar jona for instance. Simon son of John. All the Davidit kings are identified by who their Father was. Their mothers are identified and actually honored as well if you go back and look in Chronicles. Why are these "brothers" of Jesus NEVER identified as son's of Joseph which would have been the most likely way of identifying them. Or sons of Mary? It seems likely that at least two of those whom are named are from different parents. I am glad you brought up Matt 13:55. Let's have a look.

Matt.13
[55] Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?

Here we have James and Joseph listed as his brothers. But does that mean son's of Mary (which I have never seen a verse saying they were)? Well in Matt 27 we see James and Joseph mentioned again.

Matt.27
[56] among whom were Mary Mag'dalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zeb'edee.

Oh, interesting, Mary is identified as their mother. But interestingly enough it seems unlikely that this Mary is the same Mary, mother of Jesus. First of all it is always made clear that that is the case whenever she is spoken of in other places. Secondly there is another Mary at the foot of the cross.

John 19:25

25]
So the soldiers did this. But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Mag'dalene.

Hmmmm. Another Mary. It is much more likely that this is the one spoken of in Matt 13 and Matt 27, who is Mary the Wife of Clopas . There are some other interesting things about this connection but the post is going to be too long. Now interestingly enough her name is Mary and she is said to be a sister of Mary, Christ's mother. How many families do you know that name two children the same name. Mary, would you come here? Oh, no, not you Mary. It has practical implications don't you agree. The fact is that the Jews used the term sister, brother, etc. for a wide variety of relatives. Therefore this Mary was likely a close relative of Mary's and is called sister. This adds credence to the fact that James and Joseph (mark calls him Joses) would be children of this Mary, yet would still be called brothers of Jesus. No I don't talk in circles I just don't go beyond what is written and lord it over others who do not agree. I have not claimed to have proven that Mary did not have other children in this thread. I will not claim to prove it from scripture though I see evidence for it. You have claimed to have proven that she did. But your claim is very questionable. The evidence suggests that those whom you say are definetly brothers by careful analysis of all the verses involved likely are not. You go beyond what is written and will not admit it. Admitting it does not force you to believe Jesus die not have brothers. It does not mean that you are forced to believe that Mary remained a virgin or did not have other children. You can believe what you want about all of this for all I care. You just CANNOT claim you have proven it from scripture because simple rules of logic and analysis of all the pertinent passages shows that you have not.

More on the statues later. I don't have time at the moment.

 

[Heidi]

Sorry, but the bible is simple enough for a child to understand which is why Jesus said we have to enter the kingdom of heaven as little children. Children to not analyze, argue or think they know better what the truth is than the authors of the bible. They simply believe it. If the catholic church had never said Mary was a virgin all her life, would you spend your time caring about Christ's brothers? :o

In order to contradict the bible, you have to invent new scenarios that have absolutely nothing to do with the passage you're contradicting. That takes a lot of time and effort because it isn't the truth. Again, the truth is always simple because it doesn't contradict itself. So I don't buy your invented scenarios about Christ's brothers, Joseph or Mary. Satan always has a field day when people try to add words to the bible. This is as made up as the notion that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene. And made-up gospels are easy to spot because they contradict the bible just like the notion that Mary was a virgin all her life does. I'm sorry for you that you cannot see that and try to re-write the bible. But it doesn't make the bible any less true. Sorry.

 

[Barry Zuckerkorn]

Sorry, but the bible is simple enough for a child to understand which is why Jesus said we have to enter the kingdom of heaven as little children. Children to not analyze, argue or think they know better what the truth is than the authors of the bible. They simply believe it. If the catholic church had never said Mary was a virgin all her life, would you spend your time caring about Christ's brothers? :o

In order to contradict the bible, you have to invent new scenarios that have absolutely nothing to do with the passage you're contradicting. That takes a lot of time and effort because it isn't the truth. Again, the truth is always simple because it doesn't contradict itself. So I don't buy your invented scenarios about Christ's brothers, Joseph or Mary. Satan always has a field day when people try to add words to the bible. This is as made up as the notion that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene. And made-up gospels are easy to spot because they contradict the bible just like the notion that Mary was a virgin all her life does. I'm sorry for you that you cannot see that and try to re-write the bible. But it doesn't make the bible any less true. Sorry.

Does that mean you refuse to answer my simple question about the Bible? (The Bible being a book you believe even children can comprehend easily.)

Orthodox Christian also brings up another good quote: "This is my Body"

Are the people present at the Last Supper eating Jesus of the Bible's flesh and bone?

 

[thessalonian]

Sorry, but the bible is simple enough for a child to understand which is why Jesus said we have to enter the kingdom of heaven as little children. Children to not analyze, argue or think they know better what the truth is than the authors of the bible. They simply believe it. If the catholic church had never said Mary was a virgin all her life, would you spend your time caring about Christ's brothers? :o

In order to contradict the bible, you have to invent new scenarios that have absolutely nothing to do with the passage you're contradicting. That takes a lot of time and effort because it isn't the truth. Again, the truth is always simple because it doesn't contradict itself. So I don't buy your invented scenarios about Christ's brothers, Joseph or Mary. Satan always has a field day when people try to add words to the bible. This is as made up as the notion that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene. And made-up gospels are easy to spot because they contradict the bible just like the notion that Mary was a virgin all her life does. I'm sorry for you that you cannot see that and try to re-write the bible. But it doesn't make the bible any less true. Sorry.

Does that mean you refuse to answer my simple question about the Bible? (The Bible being a book you believe even children can comprehend easily.)

Orthodox Christian also brings up another good quote: "This is my Body"

Are the people present at the Last Supper eating Jesus of the Bible's flesh and bone?

A couple of better but related quotes:

"unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you shall not have life within you.".

"MY FLESH IS TRUE FOOD. MY BLOOD IS TRUE DRINK."

There in John 6 around v. 54 if you want to look them up Heidi.

Remember, childlike is the word.

Let the obvuscations begin.


Blessings

 

[Heidi]

Sorry, but the bible is simple enough for a child to understand which is why Jesus said we have to enter the kingdom of heaven as little children. Children to not analyze, argue or think they know better what the truth is than the authors of the bible. They simply believe it. If the catholic church had never said Mary was a virgin all her life, would you spend your time caring about Christ's brothers? :o

In order to contradict the bible, you have to invent new scenarios that have absolutely nothing to do with the passage you're contradicting. That takes a lot of time and effort because it isn't the truth. Again, the truth is always simple because it doesn't contradict itself. So I don't buy your invented scenarios about Christ's brothers, Joseph or Mary. Satan always has a field day when people try to add words to the bible. This is as made up as the notion that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene. And made-up gospels are easy to spot because they contradict the bible just like the notion that Mary was a virgin all her life does. I'm sorry for you that you cannot see that and try to re-write the bible. But it doesn't make the bible any less true. Sorry.

Does that mean you refuse to answer my simple question about the Bible? (The Bible being a book you believe even children can comprehend easily.)

Orthodox Christian also brings up another good quote: "This is my Body"

Are the people present at the Last Supper eating Jesus of the Bible's flesh and bone?

Again, it's obvious that when showing bread and saying; "this is my body" that that is not Jesus's body, it's bread which represents his body. Again, the bible is simple enough for a child to understand.

 

[Barry Zuckerkorn]

Again, it's obvious that when showing bread and saying; "this is my body" that that is not Jesus's body, it's bread which represents his body. Again, the bible is simple enough for a child to understand.

Why doesn't Jesus of the Bible just say that then? Instead of saying, "this IS my body" why not say "this REPRESENTS my body"?

And you never answered my previous question. When Jesus of the Bible said "my brothers and my sisters" was he referring to his biological siblings? Yes or no. Thank you.

 

[von]

You always want proof of everything? I gave you proof, You are the one who avoids answering questions. Why don't you prove to me through the word of God that Jesus had no biological brothers, smart man. I really don't care about whatever other "books" you read. You have no comprehension of what anyone says. Like I said you talk in circles. Prove to me that Mary had no other children. Oh, and while you're at it prove to me that you can bow to "statues of men". Come on , let's see you do the proving, once. See, I don't have to prove anything to you because your eyes are blind and the Word says to let them that are ignorant remain ignorant still. As you can see I did not use direct quotes so don't try to say I did. You can't even make a good agument. From what I have seen on these forums the people of your religion couldn't convert anyone if they were even the slight bit interested. You have a poor way of promoting your religion. I wouldn't want your faith for nothing in this world. Not with your approach to others.

 

[thessalonian]

God bless you von.

 

[von]

By the way thessalonians, I believe your people in your religion ae brainwashed. If you are not even aloud to read and draw an obvious conclusion without some man telling you what they think it means, yeah, then you are brainwashed. Think about it, man.

 

[thessalonian]

By the way thessalonians, I believe your people in your religion ae brainwashed. If you are not even aloud to read and draw an obvious conclusion without some man telling you what they think it means, yeah, then you are brainwashed. Think about it, man.

Yes the zombie theory seems to be the best one on this board for us borg. :o It seems easiest to assume that others who don't see things the way that you do are blind and stupid. Incapable of thought, waiting up late at night listening to radio free rome for the latest and greatest doctrine that will allow a pope or priest to lord over them and control the masses. It's easy to make such assumptions looking through from the sidelines and making assumptions based on biases and biggotry and simple ignorance of the other person.

Blessings