As all the dead in Hades rise on Judgment Day, why is Luke 16:19-31 cited as proof of eternal torment?

[Alfred Persson]

In Christ's prophecy/parable the Pharisees would not believe the risen Lazarus (John 12:9-11) and therefore, contrary to their belief Abraham would prevent them from descending into Hades, a child of Abraham is depicted as paying the penalty for his sin. The conversation he has with Abraham lasts only a minute. Nothing is said to be eternal. We know all in Hades come out on Judgment Day. So how is it believers cite this as proof for eternal torment? Rather, it fits the 1st century apostolic concept of hades as a place where souls can repent and live according to God (1 Pet. 4:6):

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:11-15 NKJ)


24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
25 "Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
26 "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
27 "and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
28 "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 "and come forth-- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. (Jn. 5:24-29 NKJ)


22 “So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 “And being in torments (931 βάσανος basanos) in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “Then he cried and said, `Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented (3600 ὀδυνάω odunao) in this flame (5395 φλόξ phlox).’
25 “But Abraham said, `Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted (3870 παρακαλέω parakaleo) and you are tormented (3600 ὀδυνάω odunao). (Lk. 16:22-25 NKJ)

The Rich Man does not act like someone who is irreedemably wicked and is suffering Eternal Torment. So how can Bible Believers cite this as proof of eternal torment?

1)His demeanor is not that of a wicked eternally condemned man, he does not blaspheme either Abraham, Lazarus or God even when he doesn’t get what he asked for.
2)Abraham calls him “son…child” displaying affection which implies the rich man is not irredeemably wicked.
3)Both Abraham and many redeemed with him WANT to cross over into Hades to lessen the torment of the rich man. That would be rebellion against God’s Judgment and therefore implies the rich man ultimately would be saved.
4)The symbolic language implies a “torment” with a goal beyond retributive justice:

If the “torment” (3600 ὀδυνάω odunao) is the classic idea of hell-fire, the Rich Man would ask for a lot more than a little water to cool his tongue. Odunao here refers to mental anguish (Luke 2:48; 16:25; Acts 20:38). Its antithesis is parakaleo ‘to be consoled for sorrow’ like Lazarus (Lk. 16:25).

Christ chose the word “torment” (931 βάσανος basanos) to describe the Torment in Hades:

Meaning: 1) a touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal 2) the rack or instrument of torture by which one is forced to divulge the truth.-Strong’s Concordance

This “torment” is the kind that brings truth to the surface, resulting in “anguish” and “sorrow” (3600 ὀδυνάω odunao cp. Acts 20:38) for sin. The imagery of purging from sin is common in the Old Testament (Zech. 13:9; Ps. 51:7; 66:10; Isa. 1:25; 4:4; 6:7; 48:10; Ezek. 24:13; Dan. 11:35):

2 “But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s fire And like launderer’s soap.
3 He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi, And purge them as gold and silver, That they may offer to the LORD An offering in righteousness. (Mal. 3:2-3 NKJ)

In Luke 16:24 the “flame” (5395 φλόξ phlox) causes the “agony” or “anguish” (3600 ὀδυνάω odunao). The Rich Man is being purged (Mal. 3:3; Job 23:10; Zech. 13:9 cp. 1 Pet. 1:7) by the “flame of God’s inspection”: “His eyes like a flame” (Rev. 1:14; 2:18; 19:12). The “flame” is the “visible aspect of a fire that springs upward and is usually orange”(Logos Bible Sense Lexicon). God is revealed in the “flame” (Ex. 3:2; Judges 13:20; Isa. 66:15 LXX; Acts 7:30; 2 Thess. 1:8).

From all this one could reasonably infer the “torments of Hades” are designed to bring the true person to the surface, liberate their free will from all bondage to sin and delusion. After suffering for their sins “judged according to men in the flesh”, if they choose to believe the gospel preached to them in Hades they will “live according to God in the Spirit” apart from any torment, eagerly waiting for the Second Coming of Christ when they will rise with the dead in Christ.

23 It was necessary therefore that the copies of the things in the heavens should be cleansed with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ hasn't entered into holy places made with hands, which are representations of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25 nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest enters into the holy place year by year with blood not his own,
26 or else he must have suffered often since the foundation of the world. But now once at the end of the ages, he has been revealed to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 Inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once, and after this, judgment,
28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, without sin, to those who are eagerly waiting for him for salvation. (Heb. 9:23-28 RPTE)

Does the Bible teach there is a Second Chance to be saved by Jesus? | End Time News

Scriptural Evidence of Universal Opportunity for Salvation in Jesus “God is to us a God of deliverances; And to Yahweh the Lord belong escapes from death.” (Ps. 68:20) "Christ is the door to salvation. His sacrifice is for all—living and dead." What about those who never heard His name? Those...

endtimenews.net

 

[eddif]

There is too much information in Lazarus and the rich man to process with the carnal mind.

I see through a glass darkly, so I do not expect a brilliant statement in my posts on this subject.

Lazarus is in Abraham’s bosom area.

The rich man is in the torment area

Two areas of temporary placement during time (as we know it). At the end of time/jusgement eternity future begins.

Where do we start?

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Consecrated Life]

In Christ's prophecy/parable the Pharisees would not believe the risen Lazarus (John 12:9-11)

They did believe .
Believing Lazarus was the very reason they sought to kill him

John 12:10
But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death;

John 12:11
Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.

 

[Alfred Persson]

They did believe .
Believing Lazarus was the very reason they sought to kill him

John 12:10
But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death;

John 12:11
Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.

They didn't believe so as to repent. That was Christ's point. Even if someone rose from the dead, because they already refused to heed God's voice in scripture (and repent), so also they would refuse to heed God's voice if Lazarus rose from the dead and preached to them.

They didn't believe what God said to them, via scripture or miracles.

And they proved Christ right , instead of believing in Christ, they conspired to kill both Christ AND Lazarus.

 

[Consecrated Life]

They didn't believe so as to repent. That was Christ's point. Even if someone rose from the dead, because they already refused to heed God's voice in scripture (and repent), so also they would refuse to heed God's voice if Lazarus rose from the dead and preached to them.

They didn't believe what God said to them, via scripture or miracles.

And they proved Christ right , instead of believing in Christ, they conspired to kill both Christ AND Lazarus.

Exactly .
This is common knowledge

 

[Alfred Persson]

Exactly .
This is common knowledge

Why do some cited the 1-2 minute long conversation between Abraham and the Rich Man, as proof of "eternal torment" when Scripture says Hades will release all the dead in it, and some rise to "the resurrection of life". That's why the book of life is open on Judgment Day.

Hades is tossed into the lake of fire, after everyone leaves it. So how does the rich man prove "eternal torment?"

 

[Consecrated Life]

Why do some cited the 1-2 minute long conversation between Abraham and the Rich Man, as proof of "eternal torment" when Scripture says Hades will release all the dead in it, and some rise to "the resurrection of life". That's why the book of life is open on Judgment Day.

Hades is tossed into the lake of fire, after everyone leaves it. So how does the rich man prove "eternal torment?"

There are no residents of hell today .
But plenty have made reservations for themselves.
Satan has the #1 reservation.
He will be the first one in
Hades is the holding cell for all those going into the Lake of fire

The passage you are referring to :

28 "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 "and come forth-- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. (Jn. 5:24-29 NKJ)

Speaks to the fact that all both those going to heaven and those going to hell will receive an indestructible resurrection body.
You understand that no one with Christ today has been given their eternal body that will never know pain.
And likewise no one in hades has been given their eternal body that will be able to feel pain .

 

[eddif]

Why do some cited the 1-2 minute long conversation between Abraham and the Rich Man, as proof of "eternal torment" when Scripture says Hades will release all the dead in it, and some rise to "the resurrection of life". That's why the book of life is open on Judgment Day.

Hades is tossed into the lake of fire, after everyone leaves it. So how does the rich man prove "eternal torment?"

The two minute read can take hours of to digest (what was read). Books are to be opened. Not just one book. The story of Lazarus and the Rick man is rare, in that it gives information about the grave. The awareness in the grave is mentioned. Years can go by before a person is aware of the implications. The mention of te preaching to those in captivity begins to open. The white robes given and the wait that follows is added. The suffering of later saints requires meditation by us.

Complex when we consider the tares being bound till the resurrection.

Do I get it all? No I do not.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[tdidymas]

There are no residents of hell today .
But plenty have made reservations for themselves.
Satan has the #1 reservation.
He will be the first one in

The beast and the false prophet are the first in - Rev. 19:20
Satan is bound for 1000 years in the abyss - Rev. 20:2-3
Then he is thrown in - Rev. 20:10

Proof the beast and false prophet are there before Satan (chronological):
Rev. 20:10 "And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

 

[Consecrated Life]

The beast and the false prophet are the first in - Rev. 19:20
Satan is bound for 1000 years in the abyss - Rev. 20:2-3
Then he is thrown in - Rev. 20:10

Proof the beast and false prophet are there before Satan (chronological):
Rev. 20:10 "And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Good looking out .
I was thinking of the passage where Jesus seems to give the devil the preeminence in order :

Matthew 25:41
.... into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

The key point of this Lake of fire as it applies to this thread's business of "eternal torment" being that it is a place designed for the purpose of eternal torment , not temporary torment.

Rev 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The two minute read can take hours of to digest (what was read). Books are to be opened. Not just one book. The story of Lazarus and the Rick man is rare, in that it gives information about the grave. The awareness in the grave is mentioned. Years can go by before a person is aware of the implications. The mention of te preaching to those in captivity begins to open. The white robes given and the wait that follows is added. The suffering of later saints requires meditation by us.

Complex when we consider the tares being bound till the resurrection.

Do I get it all? No I do not.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

My point was "its eisegesis", reading into the parable what isn't there---ideas that contradict the doctrine of Judgment Day and resurrection.

 

[eddif]

My point was "its eisegesis", reading into the parable what isn't there---ideas that contradict the doctrine of Judgment Day and resurrection.

Matthew 13:30 kjv
30.Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

This seems to say bad guys out first then good guys.

Tradition says good guys out first.

So, which is the true resurrection truth?

I am open to discussion.

eddif

 

[tdidymas]

Good looking out .
I was thinking of the passage where Jesus seems to give the devil the preeminence in order :

Matthew 25:41
.... into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

The key point of this Lake of fire as it applies to this thread's business of "eternal torment" being that it is a place designed for the purpose of eternal torment , not temporary torment.

Rev 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

In Mat. 25:41, "angels" can be rendered "messengers." The devil's messengers may be all the unregenerate people whose narrative excludes Christ and the gospel (or are against). Actions speak, and messengers for either God or the devil are sending their message by their actions as well as words. "Everyone who was not found in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." - it's speaking of people, but I guess by implication it could include evil spirits. But yes, it's easy to make assumptions when reading one or two scriptures.

 

[Butch5]

In Christ's prophecy/parable the Pharisees would not believe the risen Lazarus (John 12:9-11) and therefore, contrary to their belief Abraham would prevent them from descending into Hades, a child of Abraham is depicted as paying the penalty for his sin. The conversation he has with Abraham lasts only a minute. Nothing is said to be eternal. We know all in Hades come out on Judgment Day. So how is it believers cite this as proof for eternal torment? Rather, it fits the 1st century apostolic concept of hades as a place where souls can repent and live according to God (1 Pet. 4:6):

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:11-15 NKJ)


24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
25 "Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
26 "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
27 "and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
28 "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 "and come forth-- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. (Jn. 5:24-29 NKJ)


22 “So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 “And being in torments (931 βάσανος basanos) in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “Then he cried and said, `Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented (3600 ὀδυνάω odunao) in this flame (5395 φλόξ phlox).’
25 “But Abraham said, `Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted (3870 παρακαλέω parakaleo) and you are tormented (3600 ὀδυνάω odunao). (Lk. 16:22-25 NKJ)

The Rich Man does not act like someone who is irreedemably wicked and is suffering Eternal Torment. So how can Bible Believers cite this as proof of eternal torment?

1)His demeanor is not that of a wicked eternally condemned man, he does not blaspheme either Abraham, Lazarus or God even when he doesn’t get what he asked for.
2)Abraham calls him “son…child” displaying affection which implies the rich man is not irredeemably wicked.
3)Both Abraham and many redeemed with him WANT to cross over into Hades to lessen the torment of the rich man. That would be rebellion against God’s Judgment and therefore implies the rich man ultimately would be saved.
4)The symbolic language implies a “torment” with a goal beyond retributive justice:

If the “torment” (3600 ὀδυνάω odunao) is the classic idea of hell-fire, the Rich Man would ask for a lot more than a little water to cool his tongue. Odunao here refers to mental anguish (Luke 2:48; 16:25; Acts 20:38). Its antithesis is parakaleo ‘to be consoled for sorrow’ like Lazarus (Lk. 16:25).

Christ chose the word “torment” (931 βάσανος basanos) to describe the Torment in Hades:

Meaning: 1) a touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal 2) the rack or instrument of torture by which one is forced to divulge the truth.-Strong’s Concordance

This “torment” is the kind that brings truth to the surface, resulting in “anguish” and “sorrow” (3600 ὀδυνάω odunao cp. Acts 20:38) for sin. The imagery of purging from sin is common in the Old Testament (Zech. 13:9; Ps. 51:7; 66:10; Isa. 1:25; 4:4; 6:7; 48:10; Ezek. 24:13; Dan. 11:35):

2 “But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s fire And like launderer’s soap.
3 He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi, And purge them as gold and silver, That they may offer to the LORD An offering in righteousness. (Mal. 3:2-3 NKJ)

In Luke 16:24 the “flame” (5395 φλόξ phlox) causes the “agony” or “anguish” (3600 ὀδυνάω odunao). The Rich Man is being purged (Mal. 3:3; Job 23:10; Zech. 13:9 cp. 1 Pet. 1:7) by the “flame of God’s inspection”: “His eyes like a flame” (Rev. 1:14; 2:18; 19:12). The “flame” is the “visible aspect of a fire that springs upward and is usually orange”(Logos Bible Sense Lexicon). God is revealed in the “flame” (Ex. 3:2; Judges 13:20; Isa. 66:15 LXX; Acts 7:30; 2 Thess. 1:8).

From all this one could reasonably infer the “torments of Hades” are designed to bring the true person to the surface, liberate their free will from all bondage to sin and delusion. After suffering for their sins “judged according to men in the flesh”, if they choose to believe the gospel preached to them in Hades they will “live according to God in the Spirit” apart from any torment, eagerly waiting for the Second Coming of Christ when they will rise with the dead in Christ.

23 It was necessary therefore that the copies of the things in the heavens should be cleansed with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ hasn't entered into holy places made with hands, which are representations of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25 nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest enters into the holy place year by year with blood not his own,
26 or else he must have suffered often since the foundation of the world. But now once at the end of the ages, he has been revealed to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 Inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once, and after this, judgment,
28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, without sin, to those who are eagerly waiting for him for salvation. (Heb. 9:23-28 RPTE)

Does the Bible teach there is a Second Chance to be saved by Jesus? | End Time News

Scriptural Evidence of Universal Opportunity for Salvation in Jesus “God is to us a God of deliverances; And to Yahweh the Lord belong escapes from death.” (Ps. 68:20) "Christ is the door to salvation. His sacrifice is for all—living and dead." What about those who never heard His name? Those...

endtimenews.net

The reason people see the parable as evidence for eternal torment is twofold. One, they take a parable literally. And two, the Greeks in Jesus day primarily held to the philosophy of Plato who posited that man was a soul (immaterial being) that was trapped in a flesh body. This is idea was brought into Christianity and Christians have been trying to make it fit with Scrioture ever since. However. It doesn't fit with Scripture. The parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is actually about the coming judgment of Isrsel.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The reason people see the parable as evidence for eternal torment is twofold. One, they take a parable literally. And two, the Greeks in Jesus day primarily held to the philosophy of Plato who posited that man was a soul (immaterial being) that was trapped in a flesh body. This is idea was brought into Christianity and Christians have been trying to make it fit with Scrioture ever since. However. It doesn't fit with Scripture. The parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is actually about the coming judgment of Isrsel.

God breathed into Adam and he bacame a living soul.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen. 2:7 KJV)

Prior to that he was nothing, therefore the substance of the soul is the divine animating spirit working in the "dust of the earth", or body.

Greeks have nothing to do with the Bible's concept of soul.


Also, unlike a parable where individual names don't appear, here Lazarus as asked to rise from the dead and speak to the "rich man's" family.

But as this "prophetic parable" predicts, just as they didn't heed Moses and the prophets, so also they didn't heed Lazarus:

9 Now a great many of the Jews knew that He was there; and they came, not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might also see Lazarus, whom He had raised from the dead.
10 But the chief priests plotted to put Lazarus to death also,
11 because on account of him many of the Jews went away and believed in Jesus. (Jn. 12:9-11 NKJ)

Therefore, this is more than a parable, its something unique, "a prophecy in parable form."

Just as the Mocking Pharisees didn't believe Moses and the Prophets Jesus is the Christ, so also they refused to believe the risen Lazarus. AND therefore, they would end up in Hades.

The Pharisees had a tradition Abraham sat at the gate of gehenna, and wouldn't permit a circumcised Israelite descend.

In the Hereafter Abraham will sit at the entrance of Gehinnom and will not allow any circumcised Israelite to descend into it."- Genesis Rabbah XLVIII. 8

Christ contradicted their belief. Their refusal to obey Moses and the prophets and believe in Christ would send them down into Hades.

 

[Butch5]

God breathed into Adam and he bacame a living soul.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen. 2:7 KJV)

Prior to that he was nothing, therefore the substance of the soul is the divine animating spirit working in the "dust of the earth", or body.

Greeks have nothing to do with the Bible's concept of soul.

I agree with you to this point. However, one reason people take the parable literally is because of the influence of Greek spealimg Chtlristians early on.

Also, unlike a parable where individual names don't appear, here Lazarus as asked to rise from the dead and speak to the "rich man's" family.

But as this "prophetic parable" predicts, just as they didn't heed Moses and the prophets, so also they didn't heed Lazarus:

9 Now a great many of the Jews knew that He was there; and they came, not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might also see Lazarus, whom He had raised from the dead.
10 But the chief priests plotted to put Lazarus to death also,
11 because on account of him many of the Jews went away and believed in Jesus. (Jn. 12:9-11 NKJ)

Therefore, this is more than a parable, its something unique, "a prophecy in parable form."

Just as the Mocking Pharisees didn't believe Moses and the Prophets Jesus is the Christ, so also they refused to believe the risen Lazarus. AND therefore, they would end up in Hades.

The Pharisees had a tradition Abraham sat at the gate of gehenna, and wouldn't permit a circumcised Israelite descend.

In the Hereafter Abraham will sit at the entrance of Gehinnom and will not allow any circumcised Israelite to descend into it."- Genesis Rabbah XLVIII. 8

Christ contradicted their belief. Their refusal to obey Moses and the prophets and believe in Christ would send them down into Hades.

I see no reason to connect the man Jesus raised from the dead with this parable. Looking at the details in the parable shows clearly that it's a judgment against Israel.

 

[miamited]

Hey Alfred Persson

I can only speak for myself, but I really don't know how some might use your piece of Scripture found in Luke's writing to support the eternal torment of the lost. For me, I use the account of the last day of God's judgment and what we are told concerning those who are not taken to receive God's promise of eternal life through His Son.

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Here we are told that those whose names were not found in the Lamb's Book of Life will be thrown into the lake of fire. As far as I'm aware that's the same 'lake of burning sulfur' Satan and his demons were sent to. And there we are told that they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[eddif]

1 Corinthians 14:21 kjv
21. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

After 400 years of silence. Jesus seems to have spoken two ways.
In Greek
In parables that hid the truth.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Alfred Persson]

I agree with you to this point. However, one reason people take the parable literally is because of the influence of Greek spealimg Chtlristians early on.

I see no reason to connect the man Jesus raised from the dead with this parable. Looking at the details in the parable shows clearly that it's a judgment against Israel.

I agree Greek ideas influenced Christianity, not that it taints Scripture's revelation. The Bible is 100% true, its interpreters not so.

I gave my reasons. Can't make you see them. Peace.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Hey Alfred Persson

I can only speak for myself, but I really don't know how some might use your piece of Scripture found in Luke's writing to support the eternal torment of the lost. For me, I use the account of the last day of God's judgment and what we are told concerning those who are not taken to receive God's promise of eternal life through His Son.

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Here we are told that those whose names were not found in the Lamb's Book of Life will be thrown into the lake of fire. As far as I'm aware that's the same 'lake of burning sulfur' Satan and his demons were sent to. And there we are told that they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Fail to see your point. But evidently you cite this as though I denied its plain meaning. By doing so, you prove nothing I have said is known to you.