"At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women"

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

I don't know about this. Most people who I have met that have gotten a faith based tattoo, do so not for simply the act of getting a tattoo, but as a reminder for something significant to them. I was blessed enough to meet a couple volunteer workers at the youth center I work at and one of them was quite "tatted up" He noted that he had tattoos from his youth (assuming before he became a Christian), but the ones that were faith based...you could tell....he had a special connection to.

Navigator:

You are quite right on a number of points.

Firstly, I'm sure you have indeed met many people who have gotten a faith based tattoo, because it's very widespread.

Also, for many of them, going under the needle is not, like you say "simply the act of getting a tattoo, but as a reminder for something significant to them".

When you say, " I was blessed", this is indeed why many people with faith related tattoos may do it, because being an instrument of blessing is a motive.

And about your friend's tattoos: "the ones that were faith based...you could tell....he had a special connection to", it's exactly this kind of impression that can speak volumes to people that there is opportunity to witness to, isn't it?

So you are correct in your various observations.

Blessings.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

For example, for a Bible reference discreetly and tastefully lettered on the wrist of either, say, a somewhat shy, pastor's daughter heading to college, or of a radiant grandmother, the testimony motive is likely to be paramount.

Seriously, where are these radiant grandmothers who want to get tattoos? I don't know a single grandmother, 60+ years old, still entertaining youthful desires this way. This is funny to me. And don't get me wrong, I'm hardly an almost old fuddy duddy. Not even close!

And I'll say it again; I'm convinced the best testimonies of tattooed people are the ones who got them in the world, but who are now saved. They are the ones we should leave the potential for testimony to when it comes to tattoos. I'm guessing hardened partiers and bikers silently laugh to themselves when they see us common folk getting tattoos...how much more the 60+ year old grandmother. That's comical, even ridiculous, even to me.

Mygraine, earlier, made a very relevant point also when he wrote that in his area, a majority of tattoo parlors are owned by women, and among these owners, the majority are Christians. (In fact, it is reckoned about 60% of parlor clients in North America are women.)

You keep saying this and I keep wondering, "how does that make it good and wonderful and acceptable?" I'm not seeing the logic in your thinking. Majority hardly equates to right. Especially at this time in the church.

The hypocrisy in the church is astounding right now. How do I know? My kids keep reminding me...and they're not wrong! Just proof how much majority doesn't equate to right in the church.

Everyone acts as an individual when it comes to so many things, and especially relating to artistic tastes. But there is simply widespread evidence about getting tattooed: it's a thoroughly established fact that many Christian women choose to do it.

Again..."HOW DOES THAT MAKE IT RIGHT?"



**Edited to fix last two quotes as coming from farouk, not handy. My bad. Sorry.

 

[handy]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Seriously, where are these radiant grandmothers who want to get tattoos? I don't know a single grandmother, 60+ years old, still entertaining youthful desires this way. This is funny to me. And don't get me wrong, I'm hardly an almost old fuddy duddy. Not even close!

And I'll say it again; I'm convinced the best testimonies of tattooed people are the ones who got them in the world, but who are now saved. They are the ones we should leave the potential for testimony to when it comes to tattoos. I'm guessing hardened partiers and bikers silently laugh to themselves when they see us common folk getting tattoos...how much more the 60+ year old grandmother. That's comical, even ridiculous, even to me.




You keep saying this and I keep wondering, "how does that make it good and wonderful and acceptable?" I'm not seeing the logic in your thinking. Majority hardly equates to right. Especially at this time in the church.

The hypocrisy in the church is astounding right now. How do I know? My kids keep reminding me...and they're not wrong! Just proof how much majority doesn't equate to right in the church.




Again..."HOW DOES THAT MAKE IT RIGHT?"

Just to clarify... I wasn't the one making the statements quoted above...

...as for where the grandmother's are that are getting tattoos... who are also very solid and well grounded spiritual women, wholly submissive to their husbands and wonderful examples in the church... well, a few of them are in Emmett, Idaho. If you ever come to Idaho, I'll make a trip into town and let you meet them and their husbands... perhaps if you actually met a godly woman who has a tattoo, you would hold back on making generalizations and assumptions about them. They have the freedom in Christ to get a tattoo if they want to, Jethro... you cannot deny that they do.

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Seriously, where are these radiant grandmothers who want to get tattoos?

Jethro:

My basic point was that it's widespread, which is undeniable.

And, seriously (as you say), this is from christiangrandparenting.net <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->[FONT=&quot]:

[/FONT]<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> “I'm a 62-yr-old grandmother, a believer in Jesus Christ.. I have a tattoo .. It doesn't make me less of a Christian, or more, and I see nothing wrong with it. ..I'm involved in Celebrate Recovery and Faithriders, many of those in my life have multiple tattoos, and they are great Christians and great ministers. ..I believe we as Christians have bigger battles to fight than who cuts/colors their hair, grows/shaves their beard, has/doesn't have tattoos, and things of that nature. ..” Linda C

“My daughter was recently baptized as a long-saved adult who wanted to take this additional step of obedience. A few weeks later she got a tatoo on her foot that says 'Beloved' with a white dove. She moves grown men to tears when she tells her testimony and what the significance of that tatoo is. I was 'not a fan' of the move, however, the Lord spoke to my heart quickly and because He opened my heart, I have been allowed to see beauty where I had not seen it before.” TK

Handy said:

...as for where the grandmother's are that are getting tattoos... who are also very solid and well grounded spiritual women, wholly submissive to their husbands and wonderful examples in the church... well, a few of them are in Emmett, Idaho. If you ever come to Idaho, I'll make a trip into town and let you meet them and their husbands... perhaps if you actually met a godly woman who has a tattoo, you would hold back on making generalizations and assumptions about them. They have the freedom in Christ to get a tattoo if they want to, Jethro... you cannot deny that they do.

I have to say frankly that I agree with handy. If, as many do, more maturely aged Christian women wish to go under the needle — especially when motivated for a faith based design — they should pursue their Christian liberty as their conscience in the light of Scripture allows.

My point was that it's widespread among Christian women, including gracious grandmothers. And it's accurate to say so.

Blessings.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Just to clarify... I wasn't the one making the statements quoted above...

Hmmm...you may be right. I must have had your quote thingy still on my clip board when I responded to farouk's post, lol.

They have the freedom in Christ to get a tattoo if they want to, Jethro... you cannot deny that they do.

They do within the boundaries of Romans 14, just as I'm entitled to my opinion about it. In fact, it's easily arguable from Romans 14 that the one who seeks to get tattooed is the one who has the obligation to not flaunt their freedom to do so, in the interest of the parts of the body of Christ that aren't ready to accept it yet.

But as I say, the church in general just doesn't seem to care about taking Paul's teaching in Romans 14 into consideration and have been terribly influenced by the 'my rights' mindset of the world. That's worldliness. The tattooing is just how that worldly mindset is manifesting in our young people. As for our senior citizen believers getting tattoos...that's a new one on me. And it's very, very disturbing to me.

 

[handy]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Perhaps if you knew some "senior citizens" who were getting tattoos... real live people that would take this from the realm of the theoretical to reality, you might start to see it differently. As of now, you are only working from a rather prejudical (in the sense of predetermining motives) point of view.

I'm sure that it is very, very disturbing to you... every bit as disturbing to you and with far less Scriptural reason that God's people not being circumcised and/or following the Law was to many of the first century Jewish Christians. But, just as Paul did not teach that no Christian gentile was to exercise his freedom to not be circumcised until every Christan Jew was no longer bothered by it... so should you not teach that every Christian who has the freedom to get a tattoo shouldn't get one until every older Christian who has your views no longer feels that way or are dead.

You are entitled to your opinions, yes... just as farouk, myself, even Joe the mechanic is...

But, you, as a very mature Christian (you're hardly a babe in Christ) should be taking every thought captive and that would include judgmental thoughts towards any Christian woman who exercises her freedom in Christ and gets an innocuous tattoo. Honestly, Jethro... and you know I respect you as not only a brother in the Lord but a wise one at that... But...

What is your responsibility in Christ here? Where is your responsibility to consider others before yourself? You say that any Christian who desires a tattoo has the responsibility to not get one because you think they show worldliness... where is your responsibility to not judge the servant of another master, or to consider yourself the least. All the while you are pressing the issue that anyone who gets a tattoo is exercising "my rights" in a worldly way... you are pressing for your own right to not feel offense by something you personally don't like.

Again... by asserting that anyone who gets a tattoo is being worldly, you are presuming to judge the heart and intent of every Christian who does get one... exactly which Scripture gives you your "right" to do that? And are you going to exercise that "right" at the expense of infringing upon the complete freedom that our Lord grants to His people?

Not trying to be argumentative here... (Kidron might call me a wildcat )... just trying to give you some food for thought on the matter... we, all of us in the Lord... should look to our own boards before dealing with the specks of others.

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

As for our senior citizen believers getting tattoos...that's a new one on me. And it's very, very disturbing to me.

Jethro:

Oh I wouldn't worry if I were you.

Blessings.

And I see that aquamarinesky54 says that various of her family members would be likely to be favorable, as she said a while back: writing positively of it as a beautiful way expressing faith in a family context, and stressing that it seems so 'right' to do it:

I do find it interesting. I think it can be a touching way to manifest what's inside (faith, familial love, etc.) in an outward way. I feel tattoos can be beautiful if done the right way for the right reasons.

I think we would if we could. We're busy and don't get to spend time all together that much. One could argue that that is a good reason to do it. But the thing is we're also all on the verge of doing something new career wise. I'll be declaring my major as nursing soon. My mother's currently switching majors to be a medical technician of some sort. My sister's currently thinking about making a career change and isn't sure what she wants to go to school for.

But one could argue that a small, conservative tattoo..would be fine.

Another quote from christiangrandparenting.com , where the grandmother wants people to feel more relaxed about their grandchildren's tattoos:

"As our grandchildren enter their teenage years, they may only tolerate us instead of adoring us. Nevertheless, it is important that we maintain a connection with them during this fragile and exciting time in their life. This is a time when we should focus on their hearts not their clothing or hair or tattoos." Lilian Penner

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

... "senior citizens".. getting tattoos... real live people that would take this from the realm of the theoretical to reality..

any Christian woman who exercises her freedom in Christ and gets an innocuous tattoo.

handy:

Yes, it's the reality, like you say.

Yes, any Christian woman can do it, if she thinks it's nice and within God-honoring bounds; and, yes, it can be innocuous, like you say.

Blessings.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

What is your responsibility in Christ here? Where is your responsibility to consider others before yourself? You say that any Christian who desires a tattoo has the responsibility to not get one because you think they show worldliness... where is your responsibility to not judge the servant of another master, or to consider yourself the least. All the while you are pressing the issue that anyone who gets a tattoo is exercising "my rights" in a worldly way... you are pressing for your own right to not feel offense by something you personally don't like.

Actually, what I'm concerned about (personal distastes aside, lol) is how this affects an already tarnished image of the church in the eyes of the world. To me it's just another example of how we are becoming more like the world instead of us remaining distinguishable from the world and it's desires.

Sure, at first the world thinks we've come to our senses when we loosen up and cave in on things like this. But in the long run it nibbles away at our credibility. I personally don't believe in making ourselves appear more worldly and 'with it' to make Christianity and the Church more attractive to the world. It's the 'a little leaven works it's way through the whole batch' thing that Jesus talked about.

The end-time church is characterized by how the leaven of hypocrisy has worked it's way through it. The worldliness ends up being the overwhelming thing that works it's way through the whole, not the good we had hoped would by us being a little worldly. IOW, when we cater to the world, they don't come up to where we're at (or should be, lol), but instead they come into the church but stay closer to the world because we've sent the message to them that it's okay to cling to the mindset and desires they had in the world. Think about it. It makes so sense to me to use the world to attract the world, and then think they're going to abandon the world when they do get attracted in. I've never seen that work. Just the opposite.

Again... by asserting that anyone who gets a tattoo is being worldly, you are presuming to judge the heart and intent of every Christian who does get one...

I have made it plainly known that I believe that a person can get a tattoo without having impure motives. So I'm hardly judging hearts. You can judge 'things' in and of themselves without judging hearts. And it's not forbidden to think in general terms of the church's motives being worldly. Just don't name names and you'll be fine.

The danger is in thinking one's pure motives mean, "what I do is out of good motives, so what I do can't be misunderstood by the world or other believers as being wrong". That simply is not true. That's what Romans 14 is all about. Each of us has the responsibility to know this and to govern our behavior accordingly, for "(E)ch of us will give an account of himself to God" (Romans 14:12 NIV1984). The 'himself' in that warning hardly means I'm not entitled to warn others about how the church is to handle disputable things.

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Jethro:

You have written some thoughtful comments again; thanks.

You mention leaven, which in Scripture is often linked with sin, and you particularly mention hypocrisy. Some tattoos, by their very design are indeed suggestive of sin; this I would agree with. But it's a long shot to make the connection that therefore, ipso facto, all tattoos are wrong, even if the Christian wearers of some have a clear conscience. Again, the example of a tasteful Bible ref. on a wrist comes to mind; any amount of talk of leaven, hypocrisy and supposedly false motives can't obscure the fact that such a design can lead to many profitable conversations with people who don't know the Savior.

Blessings.

I know at least one middle aged woman in our church that has tattoos. I know one of them is a Celtic cross on her arm. It's pretty small and it doesn't show when she wears long sleeves. She doesn't regret it or feel bad about it at all. I personally don't have any tattoos, though.

Speculative:

Often it's the more mature women who have the strongest faith, so it maybe shouldn't be at all surprising that some mature Christian women are strongly motivated to get faith based design, right?

Blessings.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

You mention leaven, which in Scripture is often linked with sin, and you particularly mention hypocrisy.

“Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy." (Luke 12:1 NIV1984)

Tattooing has a very real potential for being seen as hypocritical behavior by both the world and the church--even if only covertly. And the problem with one person in the church letting a little worldliness into their lives is it spreads like leaven in dough. And that's the problem. So until tattoos become like pants on women (thankfully I'll be dead by then, lol), it has the potential of doing the opposite of what some people in the church think it will do good. Because of what tattooing means to the world it has more potential to be seen as hypocritical, even if only innocently, than it does for being seen as righteous.

Some tattoos, by their very design are indeed suggestive of sin; this I would agree with. But it's a long shot to make the connection that therefore, ipso facto, all tattoos are wrong, even if the Christian wearers of some have a clear conscience.

I'm not saying tattoos in and of themselves are wrong. I thought I had made this clear.

The problem stems from what they mean to the world, though I am confident that there are Christians who get tattoos for impure motives, too, which is also a problem.

Again, the example of a tasteful Bible ref. on a wrist comes to mind; any amount of talk of leaven, hypocrisy and supposedly false motives can't obscure the fact that such a design can lead to many profitable conversations with people who don't know the Savior.

Never said it couldn't. My point is, in the end what you're potentially doing is helping that person you're witnessing to bring their worldliness into the church instead of holding fast from their point of view to a pure and distinguished mindset that Christians should have over and above the world and it's desires. I can't take the time to carefully choose the words so you'll see exactly how that works and not let what I just said be misunderstood if you're really not getting a hold of what I'm saying.


You've given me no reason whatsoever to think you're not a good guy. I can't help but to think that maybe you're a little naive when it comes to this matter of tattooing(?). I think if you truly knew the culture and lifestyle of the tattooed and what it means out there in the world (speaking generally of course) you'd see my point better on how it really represents bringing the world into the church way more than it represents somehow reaching out to the world to bring them to where we are. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you have come out of that lifestyle of tattooing from much more than just a casual curiosity about them. I don't know.


Unless you can convince me otherwise, I can't help but to think it is the naive (that's a good thing) that are embracing this tattooing trend in the church--besides, of course, those in the church who really are simply continuing in their old lifestyles in an unrepentant attitude.

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

“Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy." (Luke 12:1 NIV1984)

Tattooing has a very real potential for being seen as hypocritical behavior by both the world and the church--even if only covertly. And the problem with one person in the church letting a little worldliness into their lives is it spreads like leaven in dough. And that's the problem. So until tattoos become like pants on women (thankfully I'll be dead by then, lol), it has the potential of doing the opposite of what some people in the church think it will do good. Because of what tattooing means to the world it has more potential to be seen as hypocritical, even if only innocently, than it does for being seen as righteous.




I'm not saying tattoos in and of themselves are wrong. I thought I had made this clear.

The problem stems from what they mean to the world, though I am confident that there are Christians who get tattoos for impure motives, too, which is also a problem.



Never said it couldn't. My point is, in the end what you're potentially doing is helping that person you're witnessing to bring their worldliness into the church instead of holding fast from their point of view to a pure and distinguished mindset that Christians should have over and above the world and it's desires. I can't take the time to carefully choose the words so you'll see exactly how that works and not let what I just said be misunderstood if you're really not getting a hold of what I'm saying.


You've given me no reason whatsoever to think you're not a good guy. I can't help but to think that maybe you're a little naive when it comes to this matter of tattooing(?). I think if you truly knew the culture and lifestyle of the tattooed and what it means out there in the world (speaking generally of course) you'd see my point better on how it really represents bringing the world into the church way more than it represents somehow reaching out to the world to bring them to where we are. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you have come out of that lifestyle of tattooing from much more than just a casual curiosity about them. I don't know.


Unless you can convince me otherwise, I can't help but to think it is the naive (that's a good thing) that are embracing this tattooing trend in the church--besides, of course, those in the church who are simply continuing in their old lifestyles in an unrepentant attitude.

Jethro:

Okay so first of all, it's probably good for my humility, for you to call me naive. Or probably naive. Or possibly naive, or whatever. So this is not a problem. I ought to be able to take it and even be humbled by it in a wholesome way.

What I don't get is how a Bible ref. on a wrist is inherently communicating unbelief from the world, rather than being a faith reference to people. The real issue is faith/unbelief, rather than trying to make cultural nuances into sort of cultural imperialist absolutes.

Like, whose supposed sin is damaging whom? Objectively, that is.

You made the comparison to women's pants. Okay so maybe a few preachers 80-90 years ago said things about women's pants that are broadly or even slightly similar to things that you may be saying about tattoos. But I'm not sure how far such former cultural 'taboos' in some people's minds that just aren't taboos any longer can be supposed to override for everyone a faith based tattoo's effectiveness today.

And the fact is that faith related tattoo designs are very widespread; they are hardly going to evoke shock-horror as a supposed concept that is unheard of; quite the opposite is the case, in fact. On an individual basis, however, what it does is personalizes the faith reference.

In the end we have to live now and now might not be for much longer (1 Thess. 4) and I suppose I get a bit of where you may be coming from, but not entirely.

Blessings.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Jethro:

Okay so first of all, it's probably good for my humility, for you to call me naive. Or probably naive. Or possibly naive, or whatever. So this is not a problem. I ought to be able to take it and even be humbled by it in a wholesome way.

It's a GOOD thing. It's good to be naive. I'm complimenting you in a back handed sort of way. You come across to me as being naive about the world of tattooing. I'm a father of four kids. So to me naive is GOOD! God bless you for it!

This subject reminds of when my wonderfully naive older brother became a 'biker'. To him it was kind of a walk on the darker (or other) side. But his girl friend hardly went around riding on his bike with with her shirt up (as far as I know, lol). They've been to Sturgis. They participate in the community biking outings. They have fun with it. But the truth is they probably didn't have a clue what the biking world (in the world) was really all about...or maybe they did, but probably not.

I'm confident that those who knew what it was really all about could see them as naively playing around with it for whatever the reason they were doing that. I know about it because I used to develop photos in a photo shop and know with my own eyes what being a biker is all about (and my brother-in-law confirmed a lot about it too). But the trend in the '90's for educated, professional people to dabble around in it seemed to make it out to be so much less than it really was. I see the same thing happening with this tattooing trend.

Posting as I have time.

Blessing.

(Just so you know. Sturgis, South Dakota is kind of the Vegas for hard core bikers.)

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

It's a GOOD thing. It's good to be naive. I'm complimenting you in a back handed sort of way. You come across to me as being naive about the world of tattooing. I'm a father of four kids. So to me naive is GOOD! God bless you for it!

This subject reminds of when my wonderfully naive older brother became a 'biker'. To him it was kind of a walk on the darker (or other) side. But his girl friend hardly went around riding on his bike with with her shirt up. They've been to Sturgis. They participate in the community biking outings. They have fun with it. But the truth is they probably didn't have a clue what the biking world (in the world) was really all about...or maybe they did, but probably not.

I'm confident that those who knew what it was really all about could see them as naively playing around with it for whatever the reason they were doing that. I know about it because I used to develop photos in a photo shop and know with my own eyes what being a biker is all about. But the trend in the '90's for educated, professional people to dabble around in it seemed to make it out to be so much less than it really was. I see the same thing happening with this tattooing trend.

Posting as I have time.

Blessing.

Jethro:

Well, interesting comparison with biking.

Because these days, when a group of people on bikes arrives at a Cracker Barrel off an Interstate some place, with their helmets and leather pants, it's just as likely to be a group of pastors' wives on a weekend outing, as it is what might have been regarded as 'traditional' bikers.

Maybe I'm getting a bit off topic, though.

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

The act itself may seem dirty, but like many have said, it's not always the bikers that go in to get tattoos. I'm the furthest from a "bad boy" so to speak, and I've contemplated getting a tattoo of a Bible reference ....

Navigator:

I was reading again and you were saying not long ago that you were generally contemplating a Bible reference tattoo.

You did say: "The act itself may seem dirty".

I realize that there has been discussion of whether such an idea can mean literally or metaphorically.

I just wondered if you though that going under the tatt gun was intrinsically a matter of "acting dirty", so to speak.

Just guessing now, some people, including those who have done it or are contemplaing doing it might of course say that it's kind of "acting dirty" in the sense of it having an edginess and a thrill to it.

Others might really deny that it's that way at all, in the sense of supposedly "acting dirty", especially if it's for a quality faith related design.

Whatever. Do you have anything to add, maybe, to help us here?

Blessings.

 

[Navigator]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Navigator:

I was reading again and you were saying not long ago that you were generally contemplating a Bible reference tattoo.

You did say: "The act itself may seem dirty".

I realize that there has been discussion of whether such an idea can mean literally or metaphorically.

I just wondered if you though that going under the tatt gun was intrinsically a matter of "acting dirty", so to speak.

Just guessing now, some people, including those who have done it or are contemplaing doing it might of course say that it's kind of "acting dirty" in the sense of it having an edginess and a thrill to it.

Others might really deny that it's that way at all, in the sense of supposedly "acting dirty", especially if it's for a quality faith related design.

Whatever. Do you have anything to add, maybe, to help us here?

Blessings.

A little of both to be honest. The group commonly associated with getting tattoos are the "dirty bikers." But on the other hand, there are many that get tattoos simply do so to get the thrill of getting a tattoo, or do so rebelliously. I understand parlors are more often than not very hygienically clean establishments...

 

[ReesesPieces]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

I have done some reading on the origin of tattooing & I have also ready scriptures about what God said about. To get it out in the the open YES, I have a tattoo well two really when I was 18 I tattooed a longtime boyfriends name on my chest area obviously things went sour so I finally covered it up this year. Do I like tattoos, Yes. Will I get anymore? In my heart I want to say No because I want to be a doer of the word of God but at the same time Im also rebellious at times & thats something I am working on, That being said.....

Tattooing has origins in witchcraft. (scary)

God Says Dont do it!

Leviticus 19:28
King James Version (KJV)
28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord.

Deu 14:1 Ye [are] the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

Have some of us don't it? Yes
Is it something we as the followers of Christ do? No
Its plain & simple

that being said....
these so called "Christian inspired tattoos" its just like man to try to turn & twist the word of God to fit out wants & desires. (Im guilty of this) God said don't do Period!.... so we shouldn't do it, God didnt say wellll if you mark yourself with the words of the bible ehhhhh ok Ill let it slide... but the beauty of our redeeming Savior is we can use out sinful rebellion of our younger years & show how Jesus Christ can turn around a sinful, rebellious human being & make them right in the eyes of God.

My two cents

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Re. what has been said and quoted, above, my two cents would be that for instance the Leviticus passage also says that men shouldn't trim the corners of their beards. (How many preachers shave?)

It's interesting that the Leviticus passage says 'for the dead', referring to people doing it in the context of pagan funeral rites. So does the Deuteronomy passage.

What with beards and avoiding pagan funeral rites, the passage is especially dealing with the situation of Israel in the land under the law.

New Testament believers are a heavenly people under grace, not law, and walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8.1). It's hard to see how the matter of beards still applies to New Testament believers, because there is no corresponding passage in the New Testament. The Jews also had their Sabbath, for example, with their stringent regulations, but of all the 10 commandments that the Lord Jesus discussed, the Sabbath is the only one that He didn't indicate was continued for the New Testament believer in Him.

And, taking it further by way of example, if someone gets a Bible ref. on a wrist with the definite purpose of honoring God for the sake of the Gospel, in this age when we are under grace, not law, then it's a bit hard to link it with pagan funeral rites, in my view.

But no one needs to get a tattoo if they don't want to.

Another example: Paul strongly taught against circumcision being necessary any longer in the New Testament scheme of things. It wasn't an obligation for the New Testament believer in the Lord Jesus (some people falsely claimed it was.)

But we also read that Paul circumcised Timothy. So, why? it was because it would give Timothy opportunities for the Gospel; he was someone who was around many Jews. It wasn't an obligation for Timothy to be circumcised; he received it willingly, as a means of widening his opportunities for the Gospel.

Some Christians today, too, might similarly thing that for example a Bible ref. on a wrist might widen their opportunities to speak to people about the Savior. It's not necessary to do it; and many Christians might not want to do it. But I would have a hard time saying that it's wrong to want to do it, if this is their motive to honor God, as a very effective means of talking to people about the Gospel.

Blessings.

 

[ReesesPieces]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

For the dead does not necessarily mean people who are physically dead, I'm addressing tattoos only, although I realize the rest of the passage is being recognized.

New Testament believers are a heavenly people under grace, not law, and walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8.1)

If its true that we are not walking after the flesh but the spirit why brand our flesh??

What spiritual benefit are we receiving by marking/branding our bodies which is also our temple in which the spirit is to dwell within us?

Why would God honor or bless us for branding out bodies with something that has pagan/sinful origins?

I completely agree No one needs to get a tattoo if they don't want one, but no one can also make me believe branding our bodies with Religious/Bible passage tattoos which have a pagan origin are manifesting Christ, tattoos appeal to the flesh its something we use to make SELF stand out & have people take notice no matter the message.

Another example: Paul strongly taught against circumcision being necessary any longer in the New Testament scheme of things. It wasn't an obligation for the New Testament believer in the Lord Jesus (some people falsely claimed it was.)

But we also read that Paul circumcised Timothy. So, why? it was because it would give Timothy opportunities for the Gospel; he was someone who was around many Jews. It wasn't an obligation for Timothy to be circumcised; he received it willingly, as a means of widening his opportunities for the Gospel.

Some Christians today, too, might similarly thing that for example a Bible ref. on a wrist might widen their opportunities to speak to people about the Savior. It's not necessary to do it; and many Christians might not want to do it. But I would have a hard time saying that it's wrong to want to do it, if this is their motive to honor God, as a very effective means of talking to people about the Gospel.

From what I was told & have read the jews would not even listen to Timothy he was just trying to get them to hear him so he followed along with there custom not for any spiritual benefit but to just get them to listen. WE like timothy can also use many different methods to spread the gospel but tattooing isnt one of them Ive never run into someone who told me they wouldnt listen to me because I didnt have a tattoo . I can think of many, many ways to find ways to introduce/ talk about Christ to people that will actually catch there attention without branding my body....if you are lead by the spirit the spirit will show all things to you in a way that pleases God. Tattooing isn't necessary like you said & again its a way to glorify the flesh.

Just my two cents again!

Love & peace

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

For the dead does not necessarily mean people who are physically dead, I'm addressing tattoos only, although I realize the rest of the passage is being recognized.



If its true that we are not walking after the flesh but the spirit why brand our flesh??

What spiritual benefit are we receiving by marking/branding our bodies which is also our temple in which the spirit is to dwell within us?

Why would God honor or bless us for branding out bodies with something that has pagan/sinful origins?

I completely agree No one needs to get a tattoo if they don't want one, but no one can also make me believe branding our bodies with Religious/Bible passage tattoos which have a pagan origin are manifesting Christ, tattoos appeal to the flesh its something we use to make SELF stand out & have people take notice no matter the message.




From what I was told & have read the jews would not even listen to Timothy he was just trying to get them to hear him so he followed along with there custom not for any spiritual benefit but to just get them to listen. WE like timothy can also use many different methods to spread the gospel but tattooing isnt one of them Ive never run into someone who told me they wouldnt listen to me because I didnt have a tattoo . I can think of many, many ways to find ways to introduce/ talk about Christ to people that will actually catch there attention without branding my body....if you are lead by the spirit the spirit will show all things to you in a way that pleases God. Tattooing isn't necessary like you said & again its a way to glorify the flesh.

Just my two cents again!

Love & peace

ReecesPieces:

Well, okay. Obviously you don't want any more and this is fine.

I don't think I intended to say that people won't listen to folk without a faith related tattoo; it's simply that a lot of Christians DO find it extremely effective in getting conversations going; and since we're under grace, not law, the motive that Christians might have can be respected, at any rate, even if not followed in practice.

And the Lev. passage does have pagan funeral rites as its background.

But anyway, with this sort of thing, one is not necessarily going to find that all Christians will see it in exactly the same way.

It's good to know that you're encouraged in the Word day by day.

Blessings.