At the Last Trump, we shall be changed ! -

[Hitch]

So he set Tim up to fail? Or I'll ask again ,just how old do you think Tim is now and where is he?

 

[Sinthesis]

Oh Gee...I don't know...maybe it became apparent after all that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah prior to Timothy's death in 80AD.

 

[Hitch]

Oh Gee...I don't know...maybe it became apparent after all that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah prior to Timothy's death in 80AD.

What?? Are you trying to say that if the bad things Jesus said about Jerusalem came true....

 

[Lehigh3]

Oh Gee...I don't know...maybe it became apparent after all that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah prior to Timothy's death in 80AD.

Oh gee, I thought Jesus said He fulfilled the old law even some 50 yrs. prior.

And what Christian isn't waiting for the "feast of trumpets" HMM? lol!

Sure gonna change ya. But wait, I thought it was the receiving of the Spirit that changed our inner man. But you are waiting for a trumpet call? That's almost too funny.

 

[warhorse]

1 cor 15:

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

The word last here is the greek word escatos and means:

extreme

last in time or in place

last in a series of places

last in a temporal succession

the last

last, referring to time
of space, the uttermost part, the end, of the earth
of rank, grade of worth, last i.e. lowest

Most in organized relgioin today believe that the Second Coming of Christ, the rapture are before the Great Tribulation, and of course some believe the rapture is before the Tribulation and the second coming after the Tribulation, they split the coming into Two seperate comings, one a appearing and then the next a total coming..

But the Truth is , the Second Coming which includes the appearing and rapture or gathering is at the end of the Great Tribulation, for that is what the scripture and Jesus teach. Matt 24:



29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

In this passage dictated by Christ Himself, we have both the Coming and the Rapture [gathering] occuring at the same time.

I will be giving proof from scripture as to why the Rapture and the Second Coming are at the same time at the end of the Tribulation and at the end of time for this world..The Last Trump

It should be easy to see that the return of the lord is indeed with the 7th trump.

Rev 11v5 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. ( Jesus has conquered the world and assumed the throne of david)
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. ( again )
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come,(day of the lord) and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, (judgement has come) and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets,[COLOR="blue"] (The reward comes with Jesus per Rev 22v12)[/COLOR] and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, ( eminate from the throne per Rev 4v5 and Exe 20v18-19) and an earthquake, and great hail.

 

[savedbygrace57]

wh:

( Jesus has conquered the world and assumed the throne of david)

He did that at His resurrection acts 2:

30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;


31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

 

[freeway]

Greetings everyone,

I do agree with those posts that explain that "the last trump" is not the same trumpet as trumpet #7 which was blown in a series of trumpets.

But that aside, the biggest problem with placing the rapture with the #7 trumpet is that although the elect will go thru the Great Tribulation, we are promised not to go thru God's wrath. The wrath of God is announced at the sixth seal. Prior to the sixth seal, seals 1-4 dealt with the AC and his destruction on mankind. The 7th seal announces the trumpets, which brings the world its first taste of judgments from heaven above and God's destruction upon the earth. It is the beginning of God's wrath.

Therefore, how could we still be on earth....waiting to be raptured...while the angels are releasing destruction and death (Wrath) upon the people of the earth. The only ones still on the earth who won't be harmed are the 144,000 who were sealed by God in Rev 7. Those who were dead and/or alive in Christ when the sign of the Son of Man is revealed in Rev 6 are gathered before God after he seals the 144,000. Scriptures specifically state that the multitude gathered in Rev 7 are those who came out of the GT.

We can also conclude that the trumpets were the beginning of God's wrath because we are told in Rev 15 that the 7 last plagues (which immediately follow the 7th trumpet) would bring God's wrath to completion. You can only bring to completion that which has already begun.

Blessings,
Dee

I agree.. debating with myself about getting in on this topic.. done it before.. anyway great post...

 

[warhorse]

wh:



He did that at His resurrection acts 2:

30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;


31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

The throne of daved is an earthly kingdom, Jesus has not yet assumed that throne.

 

[Hitch]

The throne of daved is an earthly kingdom, Jesus has not yet assumed that throne.

Thats idiotic. Dave's throne was typical of and referred to as the Throne of the Lord, not the other way around. It is utter foolishness to beleive any seat could be more glorious than that which Christ occupies today, just as it is foolish to presume that Christ will again humble himself to enter history.

 

[Alabaster]

The Throne of David is the promised throne of Christ, the Messiah. He will come and ascend that very earthly throne and rule on Earth for a thousand years as promised. It is not a humbling act to re-enter this physical world as the conquering King! It is a joy and a culmination f all that He came for originally. The only ones who are humbled and humiliated are His enemies, as well as those who call His second coming idiotic.

 

[savedbygrace57]

war:

The throne of daved is an earthly kingdom, Jesus has not yet assumed that throne.

All I can say is that you are deceived.. I just showed you what scripture says..

 

[Hitch]

The Throne of David is the promised throne of Christ, the Messiah. He will come and ascend that very earthly throne and rule on Earth for a thousand years as promised. It is not a humbling act to re-enter this physical world as the conquering King! It is a joy and a culmination f all that He came for originally.

Jesus said that he had accomplished all the Father sent him to do ,you are contrary

The only ones who are humbled and humiliated are His enemies, as well as those who call His second coming idiotic.

It is a lie for you to imply that I have called His second coming idiotic.


It is idiotic to imagine that Christ on earth overpowering his enemies by force is anything but humbling to One who now occupies the Right Hand of Power. It is insulting to the Holy Spirit who has been ministering on earth since Christ ascended. It is insulting to the Father who devised the plan of salvation before the earth was made. He must humble himself to look at the stars. Much less be on earth while sin and death remain.

 

[D4Christ]

I agree.. debating with myself about getting in on this topic.. done it before.. anyway great post...

Thanks. I respectfully suggest that this is not the thread for thoughtful debate. It is too disrespectful and imho distracts from any meaningful discussion.

Blessings,

Dee

 

[Lehigh3]

The throne of daved is an earthly kingdom, Jesus has not yet assumed that throne.

Mt.19:28 NKJV,
28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The regeneration of Israel was the 40 yrs. (aD26-66) It was a figurative comment by Christ to the apostles.

Now, what other throne was Jesus suppose to sit on? !!!!!!!! ;)

 

[Alabaster]

Jesus said that he had accomplished all the Father sent him to do ,you are contrary

And you seem to be unlearned in the word, and therefore are most often the contrary one here. Jesus accomplished our ransom. There is another age coming that God has on agenda, where the King of kings will rule the Earth with a rod of iron, and peace will reign on Earth for 1000 years.

It is a lie for you to imply that I have called His second coming idiotic.

It's what I read. Jesus comes to establish His throne on Earth, and you say it's idiotic to believe that.

It is idiotic to imagine that Christ on earth overpowering his enemies by force is anything but humbling to One who now occupies the Right Hand of Power. It is insulting to the Holy Spirit who has been ministering on earth since Christ ascended. It is insulting to the Father who devised the plan of salvation before the earth was made. He must humble himself to look at the stars. Much less be on earth while sin and death remain.

Your sensibilities are in control. Try telling your mind to receive what the word is telling you. The earth is His footstool. He is King. He---and we, His Bride---will rule the nations from Jerusalem.

 

[Hitch]

And you seem to be unlearned in the word, and therefore are most often the contrary one here. Jesus accomplished our ransom. There is another age coming that God has on agenda, where the King of kings will rule the Earth with a rod of iron, and peace will reign on Earth for 1000 years.




It's what I read. Jesus comes to establish His throne on Earth, and you say it's idiotic to believe that.


Your sensibilities are in control. Try telling your mind to receive what the word is telling you. The earth is His footstool. He is King. He---and we, His Bride---will rule the nations from Jerusalem.

Allie you're not telling the truth ,big surprise;

This is what you read because this is what I posted;

Originally Posted by warhorse
The throne of daved is an earthly kingdom, Jesus has not yet assumed that throne.



Thats idiotic. Dave's throne was typical of and referred to as the Throne of the Lord, not the other way around. It is utter foolishness to beleive any seat could be more glorious than that which Christ occupies today, just as it is foolish to presume that Christ will again humble himself to enter history.


You share you friend Copelands concern for truth and reality ,it is a lie and it was purposeful on your part to grossly mis -represent me, as you are fully aware from previous comunications here that I am orthodox wrt the bodily return of Chirst.



Its needful to show the subtle changes you posted just today;

The Throne of David is the promised throne of Christ, the Messiah. He will come and ascend that very earthly throne and rule on Earth for a thousand years as promised. It is not a humbling act to re-enter this physical world as the conquering King! It is a joy and a culmination f all that He came for originally. The only ones who are humbled and humiliated are His enemies, as well as those who call His second coming idiotic.


It's what I read. Jesus comes to establish His throne on Earth, and you say it's idiotic to believe that.


You made a disgusting attempt to promote the lie that I had written something that could be construed as calling His second coming idiotic.
It was a shameful act on your part.

 

[Alabaster]

Allie you're not telling the truth ,big surprise;

This is what you read because this is what I posted;

Originally Posted by warhorse
The throne of daved is an earthly kingdom, Jesus has not yet assumed that throne.



Thats idiotic. Dave's throne was typical of and referred to as the Throne of the Lord, not the other way around. It is utter foolishness to beleive any seat could be more glorious than that which Christ occupies today, just as it is foolish to presume that Christ will again humble himself to enter history.


You share you friend Copelands concern for truth and reality ,it is a lie and it was purposeful on your part to grossly mis -represent me, as you are fully aware from previous comunications here that I am orthodox wrt the bodily return of Chirst.

NOPE.

The orthodox belief is that Jesus returns bodily, defeats His enemies poised to strike out at Him, confines Satan, and immediately establishes His earthly throne over the surviving nations.

 

[Lehigh3]

by alabaster,

The orthodox belief is that Jesus returns bodily, defeats His enemies poised to strike out at Him, confines Satan, and immediately establishes His earthly throne over the surviving nations.

Wow, Jesus didn't even destroy the works of the devil for the orthodox!
Unorthodox Christians (regarding eschatology - that is) must be the spiritual ones, next to the natural "orthodox" ones!
Nowhere in scripture does Jesus say He was coming back to this earth. Prove where it says He would reign on the earth for one thousand years - Because you can't. Never can bc it doesn't say "on earth" in Rev.20 for just that reason.

And you twist the scriptures any which literal way you whim. You can only give an imaginary picture of what you want the Word to say & relate that literally to those who don't know reality. Such doctrine should never be formed from symbolism or parables.

Luke 24:44,
44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.â€

When is that A? Did Jesus tell those martyrs things would be fulfilled some 2,000+ yrs. in some kingdom that He still hadn't taken away from Israel & given to a nation bearing fruit? How did the saints get the kingdom then? (Dan7)

And what "nation" is going to take it away once Christ gave it to us?

See how one needs to study history also to understand Biblical prophecy?

The "creeds" are not canon. The so-called church fathers didn't write the Holy Writ. They are just glorified commentaries. And definitely wrong about Biblical eschatology.

 

[warhorse]

Allie you're not telling the truth ,big surprise;

This is what you read because this is what I posted;

Originally Posted by warhorse
The throne of daved is an earthly kingdom, Jesus has not yet assumed that throne.



Thats idiotic. Dave's throne was typical of and referred to as the Throne of the Lord, not the other way around. It is utter foolishness to beleive any seat could be more glorious than that which Christ occupies today, just as it is foolish to presume that Christ will again humble himself to enter history.


You share you friend Copelands concern for truth and reality ,it is a lie and it was purposeful on your part to grossly mis -represent me, as you are fully aware from previous comunications here that I am orthodox wrt the bodily return of Chirst.



Its needful to show the subtle changes you posted just today;

The Throne of David is the promised throne of Christ, the Messiah. He will come and ascend that very earthly throne and rule on Earth for a thousand years as promised. It is not a humbling act to re-enter this physical world as the conquering King! It is a joy and a culmination f all that He came for originally. The only ones who are humbled and humiliated are His enemies, as well as those who call His second coming idiotic.


It's what I read. Jesus comes to establish His throne on Earth, and you say it's idiotic to believe that.


You made a disgusting attempt to promote the lie that I had written something that could be construed as calling His second coming idiotic.
It was a shameful act on your part.

What is idiotic is assuming that Gods word will not be fullfilled in literal form when so many of the prophacies, have been. Do you suppose those were spiritual nails, or spiritual thorns. Davids throne was forshadowing of Jesus's throne, entirly literal, not one wit spiritual. I will pray for you that God will reveal to you, his ability to deliver on his promises, That your faith may mature, and you will grow in spiritual understanding.

 

[Alabaster]

Zechariah 8:3-9 NLT
And now the Lord says: I am returning to Mount Zion, and I will live in Jerusalem. Then Jerusalem will be called the Faithful City; the mountain of the Lord of Heaven’s Armies will be called the Holy Mountain.


Zechariah 14:3-9 NLT
3 Then the Lord will go out to fight against those nations, as he has fought in times past. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem. And the Mount of Olives will split apart, making a wide valley running from east to west. Half the mountain will move toward the north and half toward the south. 5 You will flee through this valley, for it will reach across to Azal. Yes, you will flee as you did from the earthquake in the days of King Uzziah of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all his holy ones with him.
6 On that day the sources of light will no longer shine, 7 yet there will be continuous day! Only the Lord knows how this could happen. There will be no normal day and night, for at evening time it will still be light.
8 On that day life-giving waters will flow out from Jerusalem, half toward the Dead Sea and half toward the Mediterranean, flowing continuously in both summer and winter.
9 And the Lord will be king over all the earth. On that day there will be one Lord—his name alone will be worshiped.



Revelation 14:1 NLT
Then I saw the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him were 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.