At the Last Trump, we shall be changed ! -

[Lehigh3]

by Alabaster,

Jesus has yet to return to gather all of His own to Himself physically. The dead in Christ will rise with new bodies, and that includes His 12.

Physically? Dream on. That sounds deluded to me. It isn't written anywhere. You have an imagination for science fiction though!

It's a sin for for Jesus to claim His Kingship as promised? ROFL!

No, the ROFLis on you bc you don't know the scriptures!
Christ rejected the offer to be king on an earthly throne bc it was, from the beginning , a sign of rebellion against God. (1Sam.8:5-8;10:19;12:17)

Laugh all you like, but the Bride of Christ reigns with Him for a thousand years. I will never die, nor be a poor slave, but I will serve my King forever with gladness.

No one's laughing. But all will physically die. The thousand years was a prophetic term used for the time of David's tabernacle being rebuilt until Christ & the apostles. It was a 40 yr. wilderness period. AD26-66. This is prophetic symbolism. Rev.20 is a recap of those 40 yrs. & Christ's martyrs.on earth. The rest of the dead were raised to spiritual realms also after that millennium period & the New Jerusalem came.

The New Jerusalem already came, so I think you should maybe ask God about "seeing that" by the Holy Spirit. If you have the gift you will know. The wise know. And not all are wise.

 

[Alabaster]

by Alabaster,
Physically? Dream on. That sounds deluded to me. It isn't written anywhere. You have an imagination for science fiction though!

It appears you are not knowledgeable in scripture. This discussion is way over your head, and beneath me due to your animosity. It isn't worth it to me.

 

[Lehigh3]

It appears you are not knowledgeable in scripture. This discussion is way over your head, and beneath me due to your animosity. It isn't worth it to me.

Just not feeling the Christian love from you Alabaster!
You seem to be a carnal Christian judging others rather than your self. I don't believe God's favor is with such a spiritual state.
If it isn't worth it to you, then don't answer what you can't answer anyway- you can only learn from me.
Literalism wouldn't describe "the Revelation of Jesus Christ" Paul didn't describe that very thing in Galatians which happened to him "as something literal." The rev. of JC was supernatural for him.
I didn't have to be a college graduate to know that- but I am. And I'm a scholar compared to your silly spoon-fed dispensationalism! :D

 

[Alabaster]

Just not feeling the Christian love from you Alabaster!
You seem to be a carnal Christian judging others rather than your self. I don't believe God's favor is with such a spiritual state.

I am not what you call a carnal Christian, for I understand that Jesus teaches us that when we must make judgments we must do so once we have done the work in clearing our own logs out. My bulldozer is well worn and parked for this one, dear.

If it isn't worth it to you, then don't answer what you can't answer anyway- you can only learn from me.
Literalism wouldn't describe "the Revelation of Jesus Christ" Paul didn't describe that very thing in Galatians which happened to him "as something literal." The rev. of JC was supernatural for him.
I didn't have to be a college graduate to know that- but I am. And I'm a scholar compared to your silly spoon-fed dispensationalism! :D

Experiencing God is literally supernatural.

Dispensations are useful for us to see the mind of God toward man in various times.

Maybe Bible College is for you.

 

[Lehigh3]

I am not what you call a carnal Christian, for I understand that Jesus teaches us that when we must make judgments we must do so once we have done the work in clearing our own logs out. My bulldozer is well worn and parked for this one, dear.




Experiencing God is literally supernatural.

Dispensations are useful for us to see the mind of God toward man in various times.

Maybe Bible College is for you.

Time to waste playing on words? Literally supernatural right- as in figurative language of an event (which took place anyway)

Maybe you should unpark that bulldozer & start working for free, bc Bible college didn't help you with any good works. Just dead works of the flesh.

Why do you think you can understand prophecy, when it appears you do not have the gift?

 

[Alabaster]

Time to waste playing on words? Literally supernatural right- as in figurative language of an event (which took place anyway)

Maybe you should unpark that bulldozer & start working for free, bc Bible college didn't help you with any good works. Just dead works of the flesh.

And what do you know about what God has used my life for, that you can criticize?

Why do you think you can understand prophecy, when it appears you do not have the gift?

I have many gifts. What are yours?

 

[Vic C.]

So you think ' sheep' means Israel? Or that Israelis are fuzzy four footed animals? Whats the matter with you? Sheep are sheep ,literally.:waving

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Sheep in the NT can refer to all who follow Jesus. I thought that understanding was a given. . Were dogs just dogs or did Jesus ever refer to gentiles as dogs?

Well I cant help you think so poorly of the job Jesus is doing building his church.

Maybe he'll ask you for some help.

Ok, we all need to cut back on the sarcasm. Lord knows this site would be a whole lot more pleasant without the sarcastic remarks.

With that said, I'd like to say that Jesus did an awesome job setting up the foundation for His ekklesia. It has been man that has been building it up with faulty bricks. 2 As I look around me, I cannot believe some people actually believe the world is a better place. The spiritual state of the world (Christendom included) is spiraling downward.

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Yes, our physical condition may be getting better; people living longer through the "miracle" of medicine, etc., but who says the physical quality of life is the measuring stick? Surely not God!

But we digress when when we should be concentrating in the subject, which is The Last Trump. :yes

 

[Hitch]

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Sheep in the NT can refer to all who follow Jesus. I thought that understanding was a given. . Were dogs just dogs or did Jesus ever refer to gentiles as dogs?

Not if your'e a literalist, sheep are sheep and Israel is ALWAYS Israel

Ok, we all need to cut back on the sarcasm. Lord knows this site would be a whole lot more pleasant without the sarcastic remarks.

With that said, I'd like to say that Jesus did an awesome job setting up the foundation for His ekklesia. It has been man that has been building it up with faulty bricks. 2

So not only is Jesus a lousy carpenter he is also a poor judge of materiels? And the Holy Spirit,,, does He have any idea what He's up to?

As I look around me, I cannot believe some people actually believe the world is a better place. The spiritual state of the world (Christendom included) is spiraling downward.

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

That is a question not a statement. Im with Gentry, I think it was a challenge to the orignial audience

Yes, our physical condition may be getting better; people living longer through the "miracle" of medicine, etc., but who says the physical quality of life is the measuring stick? Surely not God!

Was it better 100 years ago? 200? ,500, 1,000? If its all getting worse that must have been some time when it was all better, when was that?

But we digress when when we should be concentrating in the subject, which is The Last Trump. :yes

Its hopeless,when this Trump goes Ivanka will step right in..



Seriously God's plan included historical victory for the church or historical failure.

Which do think is revealed in scripture?

God set Jesus on the Throne and sent the Holy Spirit to work on earth, I think that plan is perfect. I also believe it will bring about exactly the results God intended. Dont you?

 

[Lehigh3]

I have many gifts. What are yours?

That's good. I have them all- of the Spirit, save interpretation of tongues. (1Cor.12) But even if, Paul says without love, it means nothing. But trying to overlook your ignorance of prophetic symbolism in the Bible, the "body" is "raised" spiritual, not natural.

Now, in 1Cor.15 & Paul's discussion of the "body" of the church, being individual members in his previous chapters. The "body" that is "raised" at the last trump- was the corporate Christian church, both Jew & Gentiles whose hearts were circumcised.
Paul explains it as an age changing event - but it was not to be seen in the natural- or with natural eyes- but with spiritual eyes. The Judaizers (Paul's thorn) would be punished for persecuting true Israel. Israel after the flesh (from the synagogue of satan) would be subject to God's wrath in their 3 1/2 yr. great tribulation. But the believers would "rest with us" bc they weren't in darkness & would be saved from God's wrath.

So, the "body" in 1Corinthians 15 is the church "body" which would be seated with Christ in heavenly realms also- just like those who were died as a matter of fact in faith. They were raised up "SPIRITUALLY!"

"For you have come to Mt. Zion......................" I'm sure the author of Hebrews was addressing the living on earth.

"On earth as it is in heaven.........."

 

[warhorse]

So you think ' sheep' means Israel? Or that Israelis are fuzzy four footed animals? Whats the matter with you? Sheep are sheep ,literally.:waving Well I cant help you think so poorly of the job Jesus is doing building his church.

Maybe he'll ask you for some help.

In the mean, I'll take my eschatology and Christology from the source and leave you to the 'news'.


And as far as Jesus' personal application of that prophecy,,, you prefer your own.

First off jesus calls himself the shepard and us the sheep (That being his flock). Second jesus said that we would be in tribulation and and to watch for the seasons of the end, until the times of the gentiles comes in. Thats what he said and thats what i am doing. by watching local and national news i can see that we are nearing the end, and that corruption is gaining hold on this world.

 

[Hitch]

First off jesus calls himself the shepard and us the sheep (That being his flock). Second jesus said that we would be in tribulation and and to watch for the seasons of the end, until the times of the gentiles comes in. Thats what he said and thats what i am doing. by watching local and national news i can see that we are nearing the end, and that corruption is gaining hold on this world.

Are you saying Jesus wasnt a strict literalist?

Originally Posted by warhorse
What is idiotic is assuming that Gods word will not be fullfilled in literal form when so many of the prophacies, have been. Do you suppose those were spiritual nails, or spiritual thorns. Davids throne was forshadowing of Jesus's throne, entirly literal, not one wit spiritual. I will pray for you that God will reveal to you, his ability to deliver on his promises, That your faith may mature, and you will grow in spiritual understanding.

​

 

[Alabaster]

That's good. I have them all- of the Spirit, save interpretation of tongues. (1Cor.12) But even if, Paul says without love, it means nothing. But trying to overlook your ignorance of prophetic symbolism in the Bible, the "body" is "raised" spiritual, not natural.

Yeah. Right.

Now, in 1Cor.15 & Paul's discussion of the "body" of the church, being individual members in his previous chapters. The "body" that is "raised" at the last trump- was the corporate Christian church, both Jew & Gentiles whose hearts were circumcised.
Paul explains it as an age changing event - but it was not to be seen in the natural- or with natural eyes- but with spiritual eyes. The Judaizers (Paul's thorn) would be punished for persecuting true Israel. Israel after the flesh (from the synagogue of satan) would be subject to God's wrath in their 3 1/2 yr. great tribulation. But the believers would "rest with us" bc they weren't in darkness & would be saved from God's wrath.

So, the "body" in 1Corinthians 15 is the church "body" which would be seated with Christ in heavenly realms also- just like those who were died as a matter of fact in faith. They were raised up "SPIRITUALLY!"

"For you have come to Mt. Zion......................" I'm sure the author of Hebrews was addressing the living on earth.

"On earth as it is in heaven.........."

We will be raised with incorruptible bodies. you may be arguing semantics.

 

[Lehigh3]

Yeah. Right.



We will be raised with incorruptible bodies. you may be arguing semantics.

Wrong. Eternal life may begin in this life while we are alive on earth, but we are only raised "spiritually" NOW (I guess you weren't?)
And "THEN" (as in the really dead rise to heaven literally, THEN after when those alive die physically) those that weren't part of the 1st century "first fruits of the Spirit- first resurrection - AND who die in the Lord, their spirits return to God. God then gives them a spiritual body - not in the air silly, that's not what Paul means & you cannot discern what Paul means anyway- But in heaven when we die physically, our bodies return to dust & our spirits return to God.

You will be raised & get your spiritual body in heaven when you die physically. You won't be raptured alive! That is immature. You aren't supposed to fear "death" as a Christian. Where the heck is your hope & faith at then!!!!

 

[Alabaster]

Wrong. Eternal life may begin in this life while we are alive on earth, but we are only raised "spiritually" NOW (I guess you weren't?)

Yes, the moment I received Jesus as my Saviour, I moved from death into life--and my eternal life began then.

And "THEN" (as in the really dead rise to heaven literally, THEN after when those alive die physically) those that weren't part of the 1st century "first fruits of the Spirit- first resurrection - AND who die in the Lord, their spirits return to God. God then gives them a spiritual body - not in the air silly, that's not what Paul means & you cannot discern what Paul means anyway- But in heaven when we die physically, our bodies return to dust & our spirits return to God.

We receive our spiritual bodies at the moment of our 'Rapture'. I know what Paul means. We are changed in an instant from flesh and blood to glory. Until then when we die, we pass into the heavenly realm with Christ in spirit, and yes, our flesh returns to dust.

You will be raised & get your spiritual body in heaven when you die physically. You won't be raptured alive! That is immature. You aren't supposed to fear "death" as a Christian. Where the heck is your hope & faith at then!!!!

If I die physically now, I will enter heaven in a spiritual body, yes, but when the dead are raised, my spirit is united with a new glorified body. anyone who is alive when Christ calls us will be raised alive and changed instantly into glory. As a King's kid, why would I fear death? I can't wait!

 

[Lehigh3]

If I die physically now, I will enter heaven in a spiritual body, yes, but when the dead are raised, my spirit is united with a new glorified body. anyone who is alive when Christ calls us will be raised alive and changed instantly into glory. As a King's kid, why would I fear death? I can't wait!

That's quite a gnostic pov.
Dream on, "when the dead are raised!" The dead have been raised for 2k yrs. Get with wisdom of the scriptures! Enough of your spoon-fed fiction!
"Anyone who is alive when Christ calls us will be raised alive!"" You give good chuckles, I knew you would too. Why is that don't you know? No I'm not a psychic but I know the prophecy.
You have misguided hope. Just like the Jews of the 1st century wanted a material kingdom. Christ told the Jews that in "that age" there was the Levitical marriage IF they were married before the end of that age.(AD70) And He after His return & the "age to come" came, we wouldn't be given in marriage - but would be like the angels in heaven! The New Covenant age came in AD70 with the destruction of the temple made by hands as a sign.

We get our "spiritual body" when we die. Period! No lines no waiting for the insane & deluded doctrine about any end time resurrection of the flesh!

But you still try to bring Christ down from heaven when the Bible says you shouldn't either.

Death & Hades has been destroyed. No one waits sequestered in Hades or Sheol since the "first resurrection" of believers. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob already went to the wedding in the kingdom of God in heaven in the spiritual realm.

As per 1Thess. 4:18 - "then" when AFTER as in "THEN" those who are alive (& not us- we weren't even born) Then they meet their loved ones in heaven - when they die & receive their spiritual bodies in heaven like the angels. When Paul says that Christ would bring our loved ones with Him who have died- that means we will meet them in heaven- bc they believed also.

Oh thank God, Jesus fulfilled His prophecy & the dead were raised, as Paul was on trial for the resurrection of the dead.

That is the true Christian belief. That which is in scripture. Flesh & blood cannot inherit the kingdom- we become like the angels in heaven when we die. And prior to that time, we are raised up spiritually on the earth.

Oh praise the Lord.

We go to Him when we die. But you think you wait as some disembodied spirit in Abe's bosom somewhere- but it has been emptied for a long time!

Praise God.

AMEN.

 

[warhorse]

Are you saying Jesus wasnt a strict literalist?

​

I never said he was... he frequently used parables and metaphores in his speaches. My contention with you is that you dump detailed scripture and latch on to the metaphore. In one speach Jesus uses the term last day metaphoricly six times and that version of day is not used again in scripture. Wheras the term Day of the lord is used over thirty times in the entire bible, presents great detail of the events, and it is precise as to its meaning, yet you take it for metaphore. You are 180 degrees out.

 

[warhorse]

Yes, the moment I received Jesus as my Saviour, I moved from death into life--and my eternal life began then.



We receive our spiritual bodies at the moment of our 'Rapture'. I know what Paul means. We are changed in an instant from flesh and blood to glory. Until then when we die, we pass into the heavenly realm with Christ in spirit, and yes, our flesh returns to dust.


If I die physically now, I will enter heaven in a spiritual body, yes, but when the dead are raised, my spirit is united with a new glorified body. anyone who is alive when Christ calls us will be raised alive and changed instantly into glory. As a King's kid, why would I fear death? I can't wait!

That is the way the bible tells it !!!

 

[Lehigh3]

That is the way the bible tells it !!!

Nice try. That is the way Dispy's tell it!

 

[Alabaster]

That's quite a gnostic pov.
Dream on, "when the dead are raised!" The dead have been raised for 2k yrs. Get with wisdom of the scriptures! Enough of your spoon-fed fiction!
"Anyone who is alive when Christ calls us will be raised alive!"" You give good chuckles, I knew you would too. Why is that don't you know? No I'm not a psychic but I know the prophecy.
You have misguided hope. Just like the Jews of the 1st century wanted a material kingdom. Christ told the Jews that in "that age" there was the Levitical marriage IF they were married before the end of that age.(AD70) And He after His return & the "age to come" came, we wouldn't be given in marriage - but would be like the angels in heaven! The New Covenant age came in AD70 with the destruction of the temple made by hands as a sign.

Are you self-taught, or are you a member of some sect who has taught you these things? There is nothing misguided in my hope. My hope is in Jesus Christ! Certainly you can refrain from insulting people you think you have pegged but don't.

We get our "spiritual body" when we die. Period! No lines no waiting for the insane & deluded doctrine about any end time resurrection of the flesh!

We already have our spirits within us. When we die, if we are Christ's, our spirits go to God.

But you still try to bring Christ down from heaven when the Bible says you shouldn't either.

Jesus will come and receive His Bride as the Bridegroom.

Death & Hades has been destroyed. No one waits sequestered in Hades or Sheol since the "first resurrection" of believers. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob already went to the wedding in the kingdom of God in heaven in the spiritual realm.

Death has not been destroyed yet!

The unrighteous dead are waiting somewhere! But the righteous dead go to God. There they rejoice while waiting for the Groom to go get His Bride!

As per 1Thess. 4:18 - "then" when AFTER as in "THEN" those who are alive (& not us- we weren't even born) Then they meet their loved ones in heaven - when they die & receive their spiritual bodies in heaven like the angels. When Paul says that Christ would bring our loved ones with Him who have died- that means we will meet them in heaven- bc they believed also.

He says we will meet our forebears in Christ in the air.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 NLT

The Hope of the Resurrection


13 And now, dear brothers and sisters, we want you to know what will happen to the believers who have died so you will not grieve like people who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised to life again, we also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him the believers who have died. 15 We tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not meet him ahead of those who have died. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever. 18 So encourage each other with these words.

Oh thank God, Jesus fulfilled His prophecy & the dead were raised, as Paul was on trial for the resurrection of the dead.

When was that? What's that about Paul?

That is the true Christian belief. That which is in scripture. Flesh & blood cannot inherit the kingdom- we become like the angels in heaven when we die. And prior to that time, we are raised up spiritually on the earth.

Prior to what?

We go to Him when we die. But you think you wait as some disembodied spirit in Abe's bosom somewhere- but it has been emptied for a long time!

I don't believe that. Abraham's Bosom is closed. Sorry to burst your preconceived notions. It would help if you really read my posts.

 

[warhorse]

Nice try. That is the way Dispy's tell it!

Dispensationalism is not required for that position. i strongly disagree with dipesationalism myself. His statement is straight biblicly.