At the Last Trump, we shall be changed ! -

[Hitch]

What is idiotic is assuming that Gods word will not be fullfilled in literal form when so many of the prophacies, have been. Do you suppose those were spiritual nails, or spiritual thorns. Davids throne was forshadowing of Jesus's throne, entirly literal, not one wit spiritual. I will pray for you that God will reveal to you, his ability to deliver on his promises, That your faith may mature, and you will grow in spiritual understanding.

So when did you lose your tail?

 

[warhorse]

So when did you lose your tail?

Again, thank you for the personnel attacks. May god bless you and keep you in his will.

 

[Sam21]

NOPE.

The orthodox belief is that Jesus returns bodily, defeats His enemies poised to strike out at Him, confines Satan, and immediately establishes His earthly throne over the surviving nations.

That is the belief held by most christians who believe in the born again experience, why all the huff, is this not what the bible is saying?

 

[Hitch]

Again, thank you for the personnel attacks. May god bless you and keep you in his will.

How do you make that an attack?

You're a sheep arent you?

Maybe you're not really a literalist.

 

[Hitch]

NOPE.

The orthodox belief is that Jesus returns bodily, defeats His enemies poised to strike out at Him, confines Satan, and immediately establishes His earthly throne over the surviving nations.

Wrong again simpleton. Thats just a good begining ,the first 8 words, followed by DF drivel.

 

[Hitch]

That is the belief held by most christians who believe in the born again experience, why all the huff, is this not what the bible is saying?

Maybe thats why its missing from all the creeds.

 

[Alabaster]

Wrong again simpleton. Thats just a good begining ,the first 8 words, followed by DF drivel.

Why do you become so boorish when presented with something you cannot fathom? Is it because you cannot stand the truth? Or is it because you just don't know God's word? Either way, your ugly snipes only indict your character and no one else's. They are far too common around here, and are not humorous or witty in any way.

 

[Lehigh3]

by Alabaster,

Zechariah 8:3-9 NLT
And now the Lord says: I am returning to Mount Zion, and I will live in Jerusalem. Then Jerusalem will be called the Faithful City; the mountain of the Lord of Heaven’s Armies will be called the Holy Mountain.

NLT? Well, that version is lousy, but nevertheless, MT. Zion in its victorious state is the church. Zion is a prophetically charged word. God's church was 1st sinless in the garden, then Zion was in a lost state, then Zion (God's church) was redeemed through Christ.
We see the 12 tribes represented in the New Jerusalem church. All Israel are those of faith.
Mt. Zion= Mt. of Olives. Holy Mt. Zion= the new Jerusalem
New Jerusalem is the Church universal on earth today.

Isaiah 66 NKJV may help give you understanding. The New Jerusalem was promised to those who overcame. Those who would "reign on earth." (Rev.5)
True Worship and False

1 Thus says the LORD:


“ Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
Where is the house that you will build Me?
And where is the place of My rest?
2 For all those things My hand has made,
And all those things exist,â€
Says the LORD.

“ But on this one will I look:
On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit,
And who trembles at My word.
3 “ He who kills a bull is as if he slays a man;
He who sacrifices a lamb, as if he breaks a dog’s neck;
He who offers a grain offering, as if he offers swine’s blood;
He who burns incense, as if he blesses an idol.
Just as they have chosen their own ways,
And their soul delights in their abominations,
4 So will I choose their delusions,
And bring their fears on them;
Because, when I called, no one answered,
When I spoke they did not hear;
But they did evil before My eyes,
And chose that in which I do not delight.â€The LORD Vindicates Zion

5 Hear the word of the LORD,
You who tremble at His word:

“ Your brethren who hated you,
Who cast you out for My name’s sake, said,

‘ Let the LORD be glorified,
That we may see your joy.’
But they shall be ashamed.â€
6 The sound of noise from the city!
A voice from the temple!
The voice of the LORD,
Who fully repays His enemies!
7 “ Before she was in labor, she gave birth;
Before her pain came,
She delivered a male child.
8 Who has heard such a thing?
Who has seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day?
Or shall a nation be born at once?
For as soon as Zion was in labor,
She gave birth to her children.
9 Shall I bring to the time of birth, and not cause delivery?†says the LORD.

“ Shall I who cause delivery shut up the womb?†says your God.
10 “ Rejoice with Jerusalem,
And be glad with her, all you who love her;
Rejoice for joy with her, all you who mourn for her;
11 That you may feed and be satisfied
With the consolation of her bosom,
That you may drink deeply and be delighted
With the abundance of her glory.â€

12 For thus says the LORD:


“ Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river,
And the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream.
Then you shall feed;
On her sides shall you be carried,
And be dandled on her knees.
13 As one whom his mother comforts,
So I will comfort you;
And you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.â€The Reign and Indignation of God

14 When you see this, your heart shall rejoice,
And your bones shall flourish like grass;
The hand of the LORD shall be known to His servants,
And His indignation to His enemies.
15 For behold, the LORD will come with fire
And with His chariots, like a whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by His sword
The LORD will judge all flesh;
And the slain of the LORD shall be many.
17 “ Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens
After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall be consumed together,†says the LORD.

18 “For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory. 19 I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: toa] and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. 20 Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the LORD out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem,†says the LORD, “as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 21 And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites,†says the LORD.
22 “ For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,†says the LORD,
Tarshish and Pul[
“ So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,†says the LORD.
24 “ And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.â€
Footnotes:

1. Isaiah 66:19 Following Masoretic Text and Targum; Septuagint reads Put (compare Jeremiah 46:9).

That was the end of the Jewish age in AD70, with the Jewish ppls great tribulation.

 

[Alabaster]

The NLT is not lousy.

Nevertheless the bible is clear that Jesus will set foot on the Mount of Olives! In Israel!

Zechariah 14:4 is literal!

NKJV
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

 

[warhorse]

The NLT is not lousy.

Nevertheless the bible is clear that Jesus will set foot on the Mount of Olives! In Israel!

Zechariah 14:4 is literal!

NKJV
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

Agreed and all the major valleys there currently run north to south. Not the east to west as seen here.

 

[Alabaster]

Agreed and all the major valleys there currently run north to south. Not the east to west as seen here.

That's interesting. It's like a cross...

 

[Hitch]

Agreed and all the major valleys there currently run north to south. Not the east to west as seen here.

Every bit as literal as the scattering sheep. :toofunny

 

[Sinthesis]

Every bit as literal as the scattering sheep. :toofunny

And with wooden literalism you lose the actual meaning of the prophecy and instead turn it into a meaningless display of seismic power.

 

[Lehigh3]

His feet on the Mt. of Olives is not literal (as per dispensationalists & zionists)

To put His feet on something meant dominion over. And as Jesus predicted of Himself in Mark 13 (& elsewhere)on Mt. of Olives. He gave the signs for the disciples to look for at the end of the age. Same as Mt.24, the sign of His return, the temple being no stone unturned, & the end of the age.

Zech 14:1-6 (66-70AD)
The “nations†of Zechariah 14:2 are not Rome or other nations, but Apostate Israel because they are now “gentiles†like the rest of the nations. They are gathered to Jerusalem to battle, the city is taken…etc.
The Lord fights against those nations (apostate Jerusalem/Israel), Rev 19.
His feet stand on the Mount of Olives make a way for those who are righteous to still escape the wrath to come (Rev 12:6,14, Mat 24:16) (66/67AD)

 

[Alabaster]

His feet on the Mt. of Olives is not literal (as per dispensationalists & zionists)

To put His feet on something meant dominion over. And as Jesus predicted of Himself in Mark 13 (& elsewhere)on Mt. of Olives. He gave the signs for the disciples to look for at the end of the age. Same as Mt.24, the sign of His return, the temple being no stone unturned, & the end of the age.

Zech 14:1-6 (66-70AD)
The “nations” of Zechariah 14:2 are not Rome or other nations, but Apostate Israel because they are now “gentiles” like the rest of the nations. They are gathered to Jerusalem to battle, the city is taken…etc.
The Lord fights against those nations (apostate Jerusalem/Israel), Rev 19.
His feet stand on the Mount of Olives make a way for those who are righteous to still escape the wrath to come (Rev 12:6,14, Mat 24:16) (66/67AD)

Jesus is coming back as He promises and He will rule in literal Jerusalem.

Holy Spirit needs to be approached for discerning power to distinguish between passages that are literal and metaphorical.

There will be nations of people Jesus will be ruling over for those thousand years---with us comprising the government!

If you (in general) cannot discern the truth of these times, then its pretty likely that you aren't concerning yourself with training for leadership in your spiritual gifts right now.

 

[Hitch]

And with wooden literalism you lose the actual meaning of the prophecy and instead turn it into a meaningless display of seismic power.

And he was offended when I asked about losing is tail,,go figure.

 

[Lehigh3]

Jesus is coming back as He promises and He will rule in literal Jerusalem.

First of all, He told the apostles He would come back & receive them to Himself. Did He? And where in scripture do you read Jesus saying He would come back & rule in Jerusalem as a king on David's throne. It was a sin against God to want to be made an earthly king in the first place!

Holy Spirit needs to be approached for discerning power to distinguish between passages that are literal and metaphorical.

Unless the Holy Spirit grants you wisdom, one's spirituality has no discerning power.

There will be nations of people Jesus will be ruling over for those thousand years---with us comprising the government!

That is beyond ridiculous. And maybe you'll be a poor slave instead of just learning how to die & be recreated in heaven.

If you (in general) cannot discern the truth of these times, then its pretty likely that you aren't concerning yourself with training for leadership in your spiritual gifts right now.

Well, I don't belong to any church, if that's what you mean.
And "the truth of these times?" What in the world are you talking about? What kind of a reality do you live in?
The truth of these times is that we are in an economic recession like no other.
And I should care about imaginary "beasts?"
It's so immature & unlearned to be a dispensationalist.:yes

 

[warhorse]

Every bit as literal as the scattering sheep. :toofunny

Excuse me, but literal israel had been scattered all over the earth and then many were returned to there homeland. And the church is being scattered as we speak, in case you havent noticed, things are not getting better they are getting worse, and the persecution of the church will soon be coming to america. The news does not at all reflect a kingdom currently following the rein of jesus.

 

[Alabaster]

First of all, He told the apostles He would come back & receive them to Himself. Did He? And where in scripture do you read Jesus saying He would come back & rule in Jerusalem as a king on David's throne. It was a sin against God to want to be made an earthly king in the first place!

Jesus has yet to return to gather all of His own to Himself physically. The dead in Christ will rise with new bodies, and that includes His 12.

There are many places in Scripture where it speaks of the King on His throne in Jerusalem, form several books, including Jeremiah, Isaiah and Psalms.

It's a sin for for Jesus to claim His Kingship as promised? ROFL!

Unless the Holy Spirit grants you wisdom, one's spirituality has no discerning power.

God promises to give you a generous helping of His wisdom for merely asking. Discernment is a part of Godly wisdom as well as being a spiritual gift itself.

James 1:5 NLT
If you need wisdom, ask our generous God, and he will give it to you. He will not rebuke you for asking.

That is beyond ridiculous. And maybe you'll be a poor slave instead of just learning how to die & be recreated in heaven.

Laugh all you like, but the Bride of Christ reigns with Him for a thousand years. I will never die, nor be a poor slave, but I will serve my King forever with gladness.

Well, I don't belong to any church, if that's what you mean.

Not surprising, although I was not referring to church affiliation.

 

[Hitch]

Excuse me, but literal israel

So you think ' sheep' means Israel? Or that Israelis are fuzzy four footed animals? Whats the matter with you? Sheep are sheep ,literally.:waving

had been scattered all over the earth and then many were returned to there homeland. And the church is being scattered as we speak, in case you havent noticed, things are not getting better they are getting worse, and the persecution of the church will soon be coming to america. The news does not at all reflect a kingdom currently following the rein of jesus.

Well I cant help you think so poorly of the job Jesus is doing building his church.

Maybe he'll ask you for some help.

In the mean, I'll take my eschatology and Christology from the source and leave you to the 'news'.


And as far as Jesus' personal application of that prophecy,,, you prefer your own.