At the Last Trump, we shall be changed ! -

[sdktlk]

sdk:



Sounds like something from your own imagination, can you provide scripture for a eigth Trump ?

There is much to be discovered with respect to that which is outside the number 7. The Lord Jesus was resurrected, which speaks of eternal perfection on the day after the seventh day. Therefore, 7 + 1.

If we can see the seven trumpets of the Revelation we can see that under none of them can be found immediate eternal perfection. It is only what comes next after the seven that speaks of eternity future. Therefore, 7 + 1 or 8. It is at the last trump that ALL the dead are immediately raised never to be another resurrection.

 

[Hitch]

There is much to be discovered with respect to that which is outside the number 7. The Lord Jesus was resurrected, which speaks of eternal perfection on the day after the seventh day. Therefore, 7 + 1.

If we can see the seven trumpets of the Revelation we can see that under none of them can be found immediate eternal perfection. It is only what comes next after the seven that speaks of eternity future. Therefore, 7 + 1 or 8. It is at the last trump that ALL the dead are immediately raised never to be another resurrection.

It is at the last trump that ALL the dead are immediately raised never to be another resurrection.

?? Are you a millinialist or not?

 

[Hitch]

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

By this whole passage we see that God is still at rest and it remains that some must enter therein. "To day" by the Scripture is still the seventh day.

Christ is active today in His High Priestly ministry, and He has nothing left , no physical work, to do.

 

[sdktlk]

It is at the last trump that ALL the dead are immediately raised never to be another resurrection.

?? Are you a millinialist or not?

I do believe in the Kingdom age, as it is clearly defined in Scripture, if that is what you're asking.

 

[Hitch]

I do believe in the Kingdom age, as it is clearly defined in Scripture, if that is what you're asking.

Originally Posted by Hitch
It is at the last trump that ALL the dead are immediately raised never to be another resurrection.



So do you expect this resurrection before or after the 'kingdom age'?

 

[sdktlk]

Originally Posted by Hitch
It is at the last trump that ALL the dead are immediately raised never to be another resurrection.



So do you expect this resurrection before or after the 'kingdom age'?

It can only be at the time when we see it written, "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." (2Pet 3:10-13)

This corresponds with, "And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." (Rev 20:9) Which is at the time when the Apostle John said, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Rev 21:1)

It can only be at this time, for at this time there will be no more births in this creation as we know it. That being seen properly, the Scriptures plainly show that it can be no other time but after.

 

[Lehigh3]

It can only be at the time when we see it written, "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." (2Pet 3:10-13)

This corresponds with, "And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." (Rev 20:9) Which is at the time when the Apostle John said, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Rev 21:1)

It can only be at this time, for at this time there will be no more births in this creation as we know it. That being seen properly, the Scriptures plainly show that it can be no other time but after.

This already took place! Peter was not being "literal" Major error in your theology. That is where the spoon-fed fiction you were told - is obvious with me also.

Did God destroy the foundations of the world literally in the great flood?

No, the dove found the land.

Only the wicked therein were killed. The animals were collateral damage.

You should try to study some prophetic symbolism. The New Heaven & earth has come on earth. There is a heavenly counterpart- but the New Jerusalem are conditions after the end of the age (of old Israel) God did wipe their tears, & no more pain is for old Israel. God released believing Israel from the curse of sin & death of the law.

Answer that internal question por favor: Did God destroy the earth in the great flood? It's for sure He didn't destroy His highest heaven or the earth either at the end of the Jewish age.

Oh yes, the "elements" were the elements of the law. Not the literal biochemical matter of earth, silly!

 

[Alabaster]

You should try to study some prophetic symbolism. The New Heaven & earth has come on earth.

Not yet!

There is a heavenly counterpart- but the New Jerusalem are conditions after the end of the age (of old Israel) God did wipe their tears, & no more pain is for old Israel. God released believing Israel from the curse of sin & death of the law.

Not yet!

Answer that internal question por favor: Did God destroy the earth in the great flood? It's for sure He didn't destroy His highest heaven or the earth either at the end of the Jewish age.

Internal?

What is the Jewish Age? There are still seven years allotted to Israel on God's time clock. So, it ain't over 'til it's over.

Oh yes, the "elements" were the elements of the law. Not the literal biochemical matter of earth, silly!

ROFL! What's SILLY is the overspiritualization of every single piece of information and prophecy given you. You have no reason to make such allusions, but you do them anyway.

 

[Sinthesis]

ROFL! What's SILLY is the overspiritualization of every single piece of information and prophecy given you. You have no reason to make such allusions, but you do them anyway.

Do a word study for Strong's G4747 - stoicheion and you will see how arrogant the above sounds. Just because you don't share the motivation of another to accept a particular context in no way gives you the right to dismiss it out of hand. There clearly is a reason to make such allusions. If you loved your neighbor as yourself you would acknowledge that reason even if you chose to dispute it.

 

[Hitch]

It can only be at the time when we see it written, "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." (2Pet 3:10-13)

This corresponds with, "And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." (Rev 20:9) Which is at the time when the Apostle John said, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Rev 21:1)

It can only be at this time, for at this time there will be no more births in this creation as we know it. That being seen properly, the Scriptures plainly show that it can be no other time but after.

Hmmm tht kind of a long way around...

You say the resurrection is 'after' so it placed at the end of time ? Correct?

 

[warhorse]

Zeph. 1:14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.​

Zeph. 1:18-2:3 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land. Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired; Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you. Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.​

These oracles are against Jerusalem and Judah (1:14). Again it is worth noting the symbolism used:

Zeph. 1:15-17 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.​

Now Zechariah has some use for the phrase:

Zech. 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.​

For the first time since Isaiah, TDOL may here be used as a phrase reflecting final judgment. The Lord is king over all the earth (14:9) and the nations all come to observe the Feast of Tabernacles (14:16). Other preterists, though, see this as a reference to 70 AD and believe we are now in a place where the Lord is king over the earth and we observe the feast in the "heavenly Jerusalem". I tend to agree with the latter.
Finally, Malachi uses the phrase:

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD...​

Of course Christian exegetes see this as a prophecy of John the Baptist. Notwithstanding that interpretation, this oracle to the returned exiles speaks of a day that "cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts." (4:1-3)
To what does this TDOL refer? TDOL here refers to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
Our conclusion: "The day of the Lord" is a general phrase of judgment that can describe the final eschatological judgment of the world, but more often describes any forthcoming day of judgment. What "day" is in mind is determined by context, not merely by the phrase itself.



Sorry for the length,,but it was a long day..
-JPH

And basicly a wast of your time, Because with the exception of the lamentations referance none of them can be proven to be completed. Also the word Day used in those referances according to strong's still means an evening to evening cycle (or 24 hr day). Wereas the word day used by Jesus in John 6 is a more general Daytime, or daylight type of day. Leaving me with the impression that John 6 is the metaphorical referance.

 

[Hitch]

And basicly a wast of your time, Because with the exception of the lamentations referance none of them can be proven to be completed. Also the word Day used in those referances according to strong's still means an evening to evening cycle (or 24 hr day). Wereas the word day used by Jesus in John 6 is a more general Daytime, or daylight type of day. Leaving me with the impression that John 6 is the metaphorical referance.

Well you cant say I didnt tell ya.

But I am yet to meet a 'literalist' who cant help but trip over what Jesus says.

 

[Alabaster]

Do a word study for Strong's G4747 - stoicheion and you will see how arrogant the above sounds. Just because you don't share the motivation of another to accept a particular context in no way gives you the right to dismiss it out of hand. There clearly is a reason to make such allusions. If you loved your neighbor as yourself you would acknowledge that reason even if you chose to dispute it.

No, it is because I love my neighbour that I stand against certain error. I am not a Kindergartener.:waving

 

[Lehigh3]

Not yet!



Not yet!



Internal?

What is the Jewish Age? There are still seven years allotted to Israel on God's time clock. So, it ain't over 'til it's over.



ROFL! What's SILLY is the overspiritualization of every single piece of information and prophecy given you. You have no reason to make such allusions, but you do them anyway.

The opposite of "literal" is not "spiritual" BTW. It's "figurative." And the prophetic symbolism (language of the prophets) describes a literal event in figurative terms.

You make the N.T. prophetic language LITERAL but somehow we all accept the OT prophetic language as "figurative." So when God rides a swift cloud in the OT it is figurative - but the same prophetic language in the NT is literal? No, get with the program. Preterism is Biblically sound.
Compare Christ coming with all the saints wording with the OT version of prophetic language:

Deut.33:1-2 NKJV,
Moses’ Final Blessing on Israel

1 Now this is the blessing with which Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death. 2 And he said:

“The LORD came from Sinai,
And dawned on them from Seir;
He shone forth from Mount Paran,
And He came with ten thousands of saints;
From His right hand
Came a fiery law for them.

Unless you can see your error with what is literal & what is prophetic language- you will not be able to understand prophecy. Knowing is key. That is literal. Preterist scholars know it too & are gifted.

You must erase your futurist slate first. It's only when you listen that you learn.
No sense in just going on in ignorance. Learn the truth. And call no man on earth father- which includes "church fathers."

 

[Alabaster]

The opposite of "literal" is not "spiritual" BTW. It's "figurative." And the prophetic symbolism (language of the prophets) describes a literal event in figurative terms.

Thank you. I know the language very well.

You make the N.T. prophetic language LITERAL but somehow we all accept the OT prophetic language as "figurative." So when God rides a swift cloud in the OT it is figurative - but the same prophetic language in the NT is literal? No, get with the program. Preterism is Biblically sound.

There is a mixture of literal and figurative in the entire word of God! The problem is that too many think they can understand the difference when they can't. Preterism is a false belief.

Compare Christ coming with all the saints wording with the OT version of prophetic language:

Deut.33:1-2 NKJV,
Moses’ Final Blessing on Israel

1 Now this is the blessing with which Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death. 2 And he said:

“The LORD came from Sinai,
And dawned on them from Seir;
He shone forth from Mount Paran,
And He came with ten thousands of saints;
From His right hand
Came a fiery law for them.

Unless you can see your error with what is literal & what is prophetic language- you will not be able to understand prophecy. Knowing is key. That is literal. Preterist scholars know it too & are gifted.

I see how Moses was being prophetic. This has yet to occur--we look forward to it.

You must erase your futurist slate first. It's only when you listen that you learn.

Honey, I have been listening to the Lord and anointed teachers for decades. I'm erasing nothing on your say so.

No sense in just going on in ignorance. Learn the truth. And call no man on earth father- which includes "church fathers."

Ignorance is preterism.

 

[warhorse]

Thank you. I know the language very well.




There is a mixture of literal and figurative in the entire word of God! The problem is that too many think they can understand the difference when they can't. Preterism is a false belief.



I see how Moses was being prophetic. This has yet to occur--we look forward to it.



Honey, I have been listening to the Lord and anointed teachers for decades. I'm erasing nothing on your say so.



Ignorance is preterism.

Ditto that.

 

[Lehigh3]

Ditto that.

Oh yea, that's in the Bible too..."Ditto"

I feel sorry for uneducated Christians like you & Alabaster. You make us all look dumb with your endtime fiction.

Instead of learning- you cry that you don't have the gift.

That's when you ask for the right books to point you to understanding. Not "Ditto" spoonfeeding! Oh that's trolling too!

 

[warhorse]

Oh yea, that's in the Bible too..."Ditto"

I feel sorry for uneducated Christians like you & Alabaster. You make us all look dumb with your endtime fiction.

Instead of learning- you cry that you don't have the gift.

That's when you ask for the right books to point you to understanding. Not "Ditto" spoonfeeding! Oh that's trolling too!

Bless you too. Oh and that was a quote of alabaster too alabaster i was not trolling, i was being supportive. Thank you for all your positive comments though, i can really see the holy spirit working in you when you resort to name calling and insults. Nothing really tells us as much about a persons relationship with christ, as his actions.

 

[jasoncran]

lehigh. the full preterist position you have is considered unorthodoxy.that being said. lets keep this polite. i dont want to issue infractions nor warning to all that resort to name calling and or trolling

 

[Lehigh3]

Bless you too. Oh and that was a quote of alabaster too alabaster i was not trolling, i was being supportive. Thank you for all your positive comments though, i can really see the holy spirit working in you when you resort to name calling and insults. Nothing really tells us as much about a persons relationship with christ, as his actions.

Hey brother, you're doing a good job of trying to devour this sister too, so I don't think you show the Holy Spirit's fruits either when you are losing a theological argument.
Alabaster befriended me I think on day 2- but now sounds like a hypocrite in his p.m's to me. So, don't exaggerate the "name calling" just bc you lose your theological battles.

The heathen do that all the time. Why can't you just disagree & move on without trying to bully up?

It's all there in scripture. You will know I was right soon.