At the revelation of Jesus Christ...

[smaller]

Do you believe that the man of sin is able to dwell with the Holy Spirit and defile the place where the Holy Spirit dwells?

It is reasonable for 'a believer' to believe Mark 4:15 applies to them, personally.

As to your query, go read about Paul's own condition. 2 Cor. 12:7 will show any 'believer' what the facts are and will dispel the fantasy that they are not subject 'in their flesh' to that type of intrusion of MARK 4:15.

I would extend that further to say that if a 'believer' can not discern this matter as a fact for themselves, it serves to prove the fact.

If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17

The math on this particular subject is abundantly clear.

Believers have sin. Sin is of the devil.

There is no way around the math. Scriptures are DEAD ON on this subject.

The 'man of sin' is being revealed, today, in the ears of any WHOM JESUS HIMSELF ALLOWS TO HEAR.

That revealing can't get any closer to home than 'in our own temples.'

But of course most will be offended and take offense at this disclosure. In my eyes, when they do, it is not 'them' doing so. They have merely been prevailed upon 'within' by that working power.

Believers will be saved regardless of their abilities to see this matter. But that does not speak to the 'entirety' of what they 'really are' within.

A believer who sees this will take Godly Fear quite seriously.

And they will also be 'disturbed within' for a time until they sort these matters out 'within' and in accordance with the WORD.

For those who do enter this arena called 'in Truth' the scriptures will literally spring open for them. Otherwise they will remain in the partly cloudy arena.

s

 

[Sinthesis]

If the living and powerful word of God speaks of the things which shall be hereafter.. and you say that they're the things which were.. then you're making the word of God of none effect.

Let's take a simple example of how easy this plays out..

Revelation 11...

Explain how it lives and abides if you neglect its context and apply it to the things which were.. rather than the things which shall be hereafter....

And by all means.. explain when this all happened..

If you rigidly apply the idea that prophecy for the hereafter must always remain in the hereafter, then you will never see the prophecy fulfilled. The OT is full of prophecy to be filled later. As a Christian you must realize that at least some of it was fulfilled? The same is true for NT prophecy, it's just that as with all prophecy, it is not always fulfilled in the way either we or a first century audience expect.

 

[Sinthesis]

Here's another simple example..

The Day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child..

Explain how applying this to the past does not make the living and powerful word of God of none effect..

Also, the Apostle to the Gentiles warns of those who say that the Day of the Lord is at hand.. and tells us to not be deceived by those who would say that it is..

How does forcing this into a past context not make the word of God of none effect ?

On the other hand.. a Christian who accepts the word of God as living and powerful can rest in this simple truth and thereby not be deceived by those who say that it is past or present.. although in your case.. it would have absolutely no effect at all.

There are many 'Days of the Lord'. Every thing, person, idea, etc. has it's own day of the Lord corresponding to its death and judgement. The day of the Lord that everyone seems to want as their own is actually that of Mosaic/Temple Judaism which had been the anointing of God's People, yet was shown to be insufficient compared to Grace. We personally will have a day of the Lord at our bodies' death. All aspects of creation will eventually have a day of the Lord. Some of these days are future; some are past.

 

[Sinthesis]

Re: willful ignorance...

It should also be obvious to anyone here that those who scoff at the promise of the LORD's coming do not believe that God is capable of speaking with respect to the future.. when He does come in power and great glory with thousands upon thousands of His saints..

To these.. the word of God is nothing more than a history book.

These differences are not with the Bible or it's promises, just in their interpretation and fulfillment. He has come; He is here in power and great glory; He is winning. He will also come again in a sense. Every aspect of creation receives their own personal first and second coming. No more and no less. Confusion abounds because we want the world to consist of only one frame of reference, but the world is relative. It is not intuitive to us, but that is how it is.

 

[Eventide]

READ: Mark 4:15

And this verse leads you to believe that the beast is within every believer, and that every time the word is sown in them, the beast comes and takes it away ?

Every believer believes that it is only 'them' there in their heart.

It's not.

s

I certainly don't believe that it's only me in this earthen vessel.. because my old man is crucified with Christ and yet I live, yet not I, but CHRIST liveth in me..

The word of God certainly does not say that CHRIST and the beast liveth in me..

And I'm also well aware of the constant struggle between the flesh and the SPIRIT.. and also against the rulers of the darkness of this world...

And certainly without a doubt.. GREATER is HE that is IN ME than he that is IN the WORLD..

 

[Eventide]

If you rigidly apply the idea that prophecy for the hereafter must always remain in the hereafter, then you will never see the prophecy fulfilled. The OT is full of prophecy to be filled later. As a Christian you must realize that at least some of it was fulfilled? The same is true for NT prophecy, it's just that as with all prophecy, it is not always fulfilled in the way either we or a first century audience expect.

And the things which shall be hereafter.. (like the Day of the LORD) shall remain hereafter UNTIL that DAY literally comes.. and if you know anything at all about the DAY of the LORD then you will know that THAT DAY is going to change everything... things like the kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ.

 

[JLB]

It is reasonable for 'a believer' to believe Mark 4:15 applies to them, personally.

As to your query, go read about Paul's own condition. 2 Cor. 12:7 will show any 'believer' what the facts are and will dispel the fantasy that they are not subject 'in their flesh' to that type of intrusion of MARK 4:15.

I would extend that further to say that if a 'believer' can not discern this matter as a fact for themselves, it serves to prove the fact.



The math on this particular subject is abundantly clear.

Believers have sin. Sin is of the devil.

There is no way around the math. Scriptures are DEAD ON on this subject.

The 'man of sin' is being revealed, today, in the ears of any WHOM JESUS HIMSELF ALLOWS TO HEAR.

That revealing can't get any closer to home than 'in our own temples.'

But of course most will be offended and take offense at this disclosure. In my eyes, when they do, it is not 'them' doing so. They have merely been prevailed upon 'within' by that working power.

Believers will be saved regardless of their abilities to see this matter. But that does not speak to the 'entirety' of what they 'really are' within.

A believer who sees this will take Godly Fear quite seriously.

And they will also be 'disturbed within' for a time until they sort these matters out 'within' and in accordance with the WORD.

For those who do enter this arena called 'in Truth' the scriptures will literally spring open for them. Otherwise they will remain in the partly cloudy arena.

s

Let's try again.

Do you believe that the man of sin is able to dwell with the Holy Spirit and defile the place where the Holy Spirit dwells?

Yes or no?

The Math is irrefutable on this subject -

If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17


JLB

 

[smaller]

And this verse leads you to believe that the beast is within every believer, and that every time the word is sown in them, the beast comes and takes it away ?

I certainly don't believe that it's only me in this earthen vessel.. because my old man is crucified with Christ and yet I live, yet not I, but CHRIST liveth in me..

The word of God certainly does not say that CHRIST and the beast liveth in me..

We could observe the facts of this matter all the day:

"And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure."

At the moment of recognition, which can only come to those 'in Truth,' they might then see the above also as this:

"I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me."

and this:

"Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me."

and this:

"And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus."

and this:

"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

But unfortunately those who can not 'accept this' as a fact for themselves:

"And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts."

have been stolen from, and they can not hear or see open facts.

Which also makes the subject matter much more interesting and engaging for those who do see.

Those who do see this will also see that REVELATION is entirely about the destruction of WHOM we ourselves 'have' in our temples.

A MAN OF SIN.

s

 

[JLB]

We could observe the facts of this matter all the day:

"And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure."

At the moment of recognition, which can only come to those 'in Truth,' they might then see the above also as this:

"I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me."

and this:

"Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me."

and this:

"And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus."

and this:

"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

But unfortunately those who can not 'accept this' as a fact for themselves:

"And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts."

have been stolen from, and they can not hear or see open facts.

Which also makes the subject matter much more interesting and engaging for those who do see.

Those who do see this will also see that REVELATION is entirely about the destruction of WHOM we ourselves 'have' in our temples.

A MAN OF SIN.

s

Do you believe that the man of sin is able to dwell with the Holy Spirit and defile the place where the Holy Spirit dwells?

Yes or no?


JLB

 

[Eventide]

Those who do see this will also see that REVELATION is entirely about the destruction of WHOM we ourselves 'have' in our temples.

A MAN OF SIN.

s

This is what you believe about the body of Christ, the Lamb's wife ?

 

[Eventide]

Rev 13 provides us with some very amazing details concerning the beast coming out of the sea.. and the beast coming out of the earth..

Rev 19 reveals the marriage of the Lamb to His wife.. in heaven.. and then His coming to destroy the beast and the false prophet on earth.. imo this aligns perfectly with 2 Thess 2 where it speaks of the LORD destroying the man of sin with the brightness of His coming..

Simply some of the most staggering things which shall be hereafter..

 

[Stormcrow]

Soon to you means two years? Isn't this just stretching the word "Soon" to accommodate history you wish to pertain to the doctrine of Preterism?

If you will recall, I wrote "less than two years." Compared to the 2,000+ years futurists have been telling us these things will happen, less than 2 years is the blink of an eye.

 

[Eventide]

The world to come...

For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?

Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Can you see that Day approaching.. the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ..

He that hath begun a good work in you shall perform it until the DAY of Jesus Christ.. even at the revelation of Jesus Christ.. unto the praise of the GLORY of HIS GRACE.

 

[Eventide]

There's no doubt about it..

The resurrected and glorified Lord Jesus Christ is going to be King over all the earth in that DAY.. when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ.. and Israel shall know the LORD in that Day just as surely as Joseph revealed himself to his brethren in that day..

For that DAY shall come as travail upon a woman with child.. and then she shall be protected for three and a half years in the wilderness.. from the dragon himself.. the prince of the power of the air.. cast down to the earth..

Absolutely beyond what we could possibly fathom imo.. at the revelation of Jesus Christ..

 

[Eugene]

If you will recall, I wrote "less than two years." Compared to the 2,000+ years futurists have been telling us these things will happen, less than 2 years is the blink of an eye.

Thanks for the reply, but I cannot agree the Lord made them wait; soon is soon and comparing two wrongs don't make a right. I'm coming soon has to be taken in view of when it applies. Prophesy considers the future and the Lord's day enters this subject. Please show me Jesus sits on His throne with all authority and power He has already taken, and then show me where all things are now under Him as we read of in Hebrews 2:8. "But now we see not yet all things put under him." Thanks.

 

[Eventide]

As we see that Day approaching...

The church of God comes together to remember the LORD in His death, til He comes.. and there's clearly no end to the glories of the gospel of God's only begotten Son.. who loved us, and gave Himself for us..

Til He comes.. in that Day.. the Day of Jesus Christ..

 

[smaller]

Do you believe that the man of sin is able to dwell with the Holy Spirit and defile the place where the Holy Spirit dwells?

Yes or no?


JLB

You are welcome to bypass the few texts I put up from Paul that quite thoroughly address that question. But I doubt you actually got the picture because you still ask that question.

Do you take Paul's faithful witness?

There are Divine Reasons why 'believers' can NOT see what is put before them.

The 'first' reason is because they do not abide by the RULE OF THE HOUSE found in Romans 13:8-10. Even when 'most' believers claim to be following that laid out therein, they do in fact the exact opposite,

...and they still can't even see that they are doing the exact opposite.

Then they have to actually believe Every Word Jesus said, down to the last jot and tittle, personally applied. Every Single Word.

The nice part is even if they don't, God will not change HIS PROMISES. The sum of ALL GODS PROMISES are found in a single New Testament statement. It is also the sum of ALL GODS PROMISES from the Old Testament.

Luke 4:4 are HIS WORDS OF PROMISE.

s

 

[Eventide]

As we see that Day approaching...

Simply because it's the living and powerful, miraculous word of God.. and testimony of the Apostle John concerning the things which he has seen, the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter.

It has many miraculous things to say concerning that Day, the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ..

 

[Stormcrow]

Thanks for the reply, but I cannot agree the Lord made them wait; soon is soon and comparing two wrongs don't make a right. I'm coming soon has to be taken in view of when it applies.

He also told them they wouldn't know the day and the hour, but they would know when it was soon by the signs He had given them.

By the time John wrote Revelation, He had no idea how "soon" it would be, but knew it would be "soon" by the signs given the disciples on the Mount of Olives.

Pregnancy lasts about 40 weeks. No one knows the day of delivery from the time of conception, but it is safe to say in the 36th week that the baby will come "soon" even though it may still be 6 weeks away. Precisely because they didn't know the day or the hour John could only be sure that it would be "soon." They had waited almost 40 years!

Just as Christ had promised, He returned in judgment upon Jerusalem less than 2 years after John wrote Revelation; this after they had waited almost 40!

So then measure "soon" against how long they had waited versus how long we have. If you can't accept "soon" as less than 2 years when they had waited almost 40 years, how can you say "soon" now almost 2,000 years later???

Prophesy considers the future and the Lord's day enters this subject.

There are many "days of the Lord" in scripture and EVERY one of them is about the judgment of a nation and its people. The day of the Lord in the NT is no different, and it happened when Jesus judged Jerusalem before that generation - the one to which He had been speaking - had passed.

Please show me Jesus sits on His throne with all authority and power He has already taken...

No problem.

"All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. Matthew 11:27 (NASB)
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Matthew 28:18 (NASB)

And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all. Ephesians 1:22-23 (NASB)

Do you believe it?

and then show me where all things are now under Him as we read of in Hebrews 2:8. "But now we see not yet all things put under him."

Again, Hebrews was written before the fall of Jerusalem. "All things put under Him" is a reference to His enemies, the chief priests, scribes, and Pharisees (princes and religious rulers of Israel) who rejected Him and had Him crucified.

Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. Hebrews 10:11-13 (NASB)

And here is the prophecy of that day:

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. "Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. Luke 21:20-22 (NASB)

All things not fulfilled by His first coming were fulfilled by His second, and that day came the day Jerusalem fell. There is nothing left to be fulfilled except our duty to love one another and spread His gospel.

 

[Eventide]

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee...

The body of Christ should be praying for the peace of Jerusalem.. the city of the great King.. even though we know that Israel is blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.. and how that they're our enemies as concerning the gospel of God's Son..

They're also beloved as concerning God's election.. and we know that the DELIVERER shall come from Sion and turn ungodliness from Jacob..

Jacob.. who wrestled with the man all night.. to the breaking of the Day.. and in the morning of that Day the Sun rose upon him..

And Jacob learned late in his life that the son of his old age was alive.. and ruler over all..

When He reveals Himself in that day, the Day of Jesus Christ..