Atheism - an unanswered question

[stovebolts]

I honestly don't care if somebody doesn't believe in God. But that's really not the case. To be for something, generally means your against something else.
Example: To be for Christianity means your against Atheism.
To be for Atheism, means you have to be against Christianity.
Which "Team" are your rooting for? Go team go!!!

Thus, you have two opposing views fueling and separating from each other over seemingly ideological ideas and it rarely turns out nice.

When Jesus sent his disciples out, he said that if a home rejected them, to take their peace and find another home. If a city rejected them, then kick the dust off your feet. In other words, don't argue... At least, that's the way I understand it... and I've been wrong before.

 

[Danus]

I believe Atheist, or non-theist, do recognize God in many ways, but in fact hate Him. This is the moral aspect of their non-belief, which is communicated by them as an intellectual question rather than a moral question.

Every discussion about God with non-theist is nothing more than an intellectual one which focuses on ones self in relation to the world. And there they often stay in a circular intellectual argument, but many Christians stay there as well.

There may be different types of non-theist. Most of the ones who argue the existence of God are not very committed to not believing in God, or they would not be arguing the non-existence of what they say does not exist. What would be the point, other than to convince themselves? That can also be said of also of many believers.

A rejection or acceptation of anything on the part of the person does not define them as belonging to that which they claim. For example; If I close my eyes does what I saw before I closed my eyes make what I saw nonexistent? No.

In the same way, accepting or rejecting Christ does not change Christ. Both non-theist and Christians need to look at God in this way more. God is not an intellectual argument whose existence and nature is based on what we might know of Him, and decide for ourselves. If that's all God is, or isn't, then our arguments and "decisions" for or against God are worth nothing.

 

[Classik]

I honestly don't care if somebody doesn't believe in God. But that's really not the case. To be for something, generally means your against something else.
Example: To be for Christianity means your against Atheism.
To be for Atheism, means you have to be against Christianity.
Which "Team" are your rooting for? Go team go!!!

Thus, you have two opposing views fueling and separating from each other over seemingly ideological ideas and it rarely turns out nice.

When Jesus sent his disciples out, he said that if a home rejected them, to take their peace and find another home. If a city rejected them, then kick the dust off your feet. In other words, don't argue... At least, that's the way I understand it... and I've been wrong before.

Stoveeee. Hurray
Bolts
Stovebolts. Where have toy been...
Missed you like soccer.

Welcome back "maybe"

 

[stovebolts]

Stoveeee. Hurray
Bolts
Stovebolts. Where have toy been...
Missed you like soccer.

Welcome back "maybe"

Been busy with life. Gods been moving me in a different direction this past year.

Thanks for the shout out!

 

[jonahmano]

So, I ask again...atheists don't believe in a god or in God. they have rejected both God and the devil.

I remember a verse that says: they are of their father, the devil. That is, those who are not the Children of God.

Atheists have rejected both God and the devil and gods. They must belong somewhere? where is that 'somewhere'...... the devil's whom they also rejected?

Please, don't mention science. Anyone can be a scientist. Two fits in one mouth don't apply

There are only two forces war against each other and that is Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Satan. Anyone who is not with Christ is the devil and that logically implied very well according to the scriptures.

 

[jocor]

Atheists have rejected both God and the devil and gods. They must belong somewhere? where is that 'somewhere'...... the devil's whom they also rejected?

I do not believe ALL atheists reject God or Satan. There are varying degrees/beliefs among atheists. Many have not had the light of the Gospel shined in their eyes. Many have not been called. Many have no idea that Satan really exists and what he is capable of. Many just go along with the majority in coming against anything spiritual even though they are totally ignorant of what they are opposing.

To answer the question, they belong to the darkness of unbelief. We have the light, the seeds of truth. Let's not condemn them, but plant seeds or water seeds that have already been planted. Yahweh will add the increase in His timing if it be His will.

 

[GrannyJ]

Jocor, I agree with your post. It is not for us to condemn them; it is for us to show by our Christian lives and attitudes that Christianity is real. Only God can judge them. I had an atheist friend; we argued for many years amicably about God and beliefs. In God's time, she came to believe.

 

[jocor]

Jocor, I agree with your post. It is not for us to condemn them; it is for us to show by our Christian lives and attitudes that Christianity is real. Only God can judge them. I had an atheist friend; we argued for many years amicably about God and beliefs. In God's time, she came to believe.

HalleluYah!

 

[jonahmano]

There are only two forces war against each other and that is Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Satan. Anyone who is not with Christ is the devil and that logically implied very well according to the scriptures.

Sorry forgot to add of in the sentence...............Anyone who is not with Christ is of the devil.............

 

[DRS81]

Atheists have rejected both God and the devil and gods. They must belong somewhere? where is that 'somewhere'...... the devil's whom they also rejected?

1 John 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

 

[Classik]

I do not believe ALL atheists reject God or Satan. There are varying degrees/beliefs among atheists. Many have not had the light of the Gospel shined in their eyes. Many have not been called. Many have no idea that Satan really exists and what he is capable of. Many just go along with the majority in coming against anything spiritual even though they are totally ignorant of what they are opposing.

To answer the question, they belong to the darkness of unbelief. We have the light, the seeds of truth. Let's not condemn them, but plant seeds or water seeds that have already been planted. Yahweh will add the increase in His timing if it be His will.

That is to say this particular set shouldn't be called atheists? But does the definition of atheist count?

 

[OzSpen]

I believe Atheist, or non-theist, do recognize God in many ways, but in fact hate Him. This is the moral aspect of their non-belief, which is communicated by them as an intellectual question rather than a moral question.

Every discussion about God with non-theist is nothing more than an intellectual one which focuses on ones self in relation to the world. And there they often stay in a circular intellectual argument, but many Christians stay there as well.

There may be different types of non-theist. Most of the ones who argue the existence of God are not very committed to not believing in God, or they would not be arguing the non-existence of what they say does not exist. What would be the point, other than to convince themselves? That can also be said of also of many believers.

A rejection or acceptation of anything on the part of the person does not define them as belonging to that which they claim. For example; If I close my eyes does what I saw before I closed my eyes make what I saw nonexistent? No.

In the same way, accepting or rejecting Christ does not change Christ. Both non-theist and Christians need to look at God in this way more. God is not an intellectual argument whose existence and nature is based on what we might know of Him, and decide for ourselves. If that's all God is, or isn't, then our arguments and "decisions" for or against God are worth nothing.

Danus,

That's not how I approach those who are sceptic, agnostic, atheistic, non-theist, etc. I never know when I might encounter someone like Lee Strobel who wrote:

'For much of my life I was a skeptic. In fact, I considered myself an atheist. To me, there was far too much evidence that God was merely a product of wishful thinking, of ancient mythology, of primitive superstition. How could there be a loving God if He consigned people to hell just for not believing in Him? How could miracles contravene the basic laws of nature? Didn’t evolution satisfactorily explain how life originated? Doesn’t scientific reasoning dispel belief in the supernatural?' (Lee Strobel 1998. The Case for Christ. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, p. 13).​

What did Paul do with those on the Areopagus who were 'very religious' and worshipped 'the unknown god'? He provided evidence for 'the God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth' (Acts 17:22-34 ESV ). He even moved on to talk of their being 'God's offspring (v 29), the command for all people everywhere to repent (v 30) and that 'he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness' by the One who was raised from the dead (v 31). What was the reaction? Some mocked, while others wanted to hear him again (v 32).

I treat the objections seriously, knowing that some are genuine while others could be a smoke screen. I never know when the Areopagus crowd or Lee Strobel might be in my midst.

 

[DRS81]

Danus,

That's not how I approach those who are sceptic, agnostic, atheistic, non-theist, etc. I never know when I might encounter someone like Lee Strobel who wrote:

'For much of my life I was a skeptic. In fact, I considered myself an atheist. To me, there was far too much evidence that God was merely a product of wishful thinking, of ancient mythology, of primitive superstition. How could there be a loving God if He consigned people to hell just for not believing in Him? How could miracles contravene the basic laws of nature? Didn’t evolution satisfactorily explain how life originated? Doesn’t scientific reasoning dispel belief in the supernatural?' (Lee Strobel 1998. The Case for Christ. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, p. 13).​

What did Paul do with those on the Areopagus who were 'very religious' and worshipped 'the unknown god'? He provided evidence for 'the God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth' (Acts 17:22-34 ESV ). He even moved on to talk of their being 'God's offspring (v 29), the command for all people everywhere to repent (v 30) and that 'he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness' by the One who was raised from the dead (v 31). What was the reaction? Some mocked, while others wanted to hear him again (v 32).

I treat the objections seriously, knowing that some are genuine while others could be a smoke screen. I never know when the Areopagus crowd or Lee Strobel might be in my midst.

What are your thoughts on Jonathan Cahn being atheist at one point.

 

[jocor]

That is to say this particular set shouldn't be called atheists? But does the definition of atheist count?

Here is one online definition:

a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
​

To me, this would include those who reject God and those who do not know He exists out of ignorance. I think this definition includes the entire unbelieving world except for those who worship false gods.

 

[OzSpen]

Here is one online definition:

a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
​

To me, this would include those who reject God and those who do not know He exists out of ignorance. I think this definition includes the entire unbelieving world except for those who worship false gods.

That's not what Scripture states. Romans 1:18-25 (NIV) states:

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
​

So every human being who has ever lived knows of God's existence through creation and God's existence is 'plain to them' because God has made himself known in this way. Why do they miss it? Verse 18 is clear: 'they suppress the truth by their wickedness'. Suppression of the truth through sinful actions of human beings is what causes them to be blind to God's existence.

So, from God's perspective, there is no such person as an agnostic, sceptic or atheist.

 

[jocor]

So every human being who has ever lived knows of God's existence through creation and God's existence is 'plain to them' because God has made himself known in this way. Why do they miss it? Verse 18 is clear: 'they suppress the truth by their wickedness'. Suppression of the truth through sinful actions of human beings is what causes them to be blind to God's existence.

So, from God's perspective, there is no such person as an agnostic, sceptic or atheist.

I agree that creation witnesses to the existence of God, but when Paul wrote that, people were not being deceived to the extent they are today. We are bombarded by science and supposed scientific evidence arrived at by supposed scientific techniques and technology. It can be very misleading to unbelievers and convince them that natural circumstances led to creation rather than God.

 

[OzSpen]

What are your thoughts on Jonathan Cahn being atheist at one point.

Danus,

I'm an Aussie living in Australia (Brisbane) and I have never heard of Jonathan Cahn, but thanks to Dr Google, I went searching and found this article, http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=9653

So I have no opinion as I'm not fluent with what's happening in his part of the world and with him. Why don't you share with us your thoughts on Jonathan Cahn.

 

[OzSpen]

I agree that creation witnesses to the existence of God, but when Paul wrote that, people were not being deceived to the extent they are today. We are bombarded by science and supposed scientific evidence arrived at by supposed scientific techniques and technology. It can be very misleading to unbelievers and convince them that natural circumstances led to creation rather than God.

I agree that there are some challenging factors these days with the information from science, etc., but this is all the more reason why Christians need to be better equipped in apologetics these days.

There was certainly much deception in Paul's day. See 1 Tim 1:3-7 (ESV). John reminds us of such in 1 John 4:1-6 (ESV), but we know there will be an increase of such as the centuries 'progress'. Nevertheless, the truth revealed in Romans 1:18-31 (NIV) by the omniscient God is just as true today as then.

Your point is valid that for unbelievers it can be difficult and misleading when the naturalistic worldview of evolution dominates the media and the world in which we live. That's why it's my perspective that equipping in apologetics should include: (1) How to uncover the presuppositions of worldviews; (2) How scientists, media and others (including Christians) can use logical fallacies in discussions that prevent logical discussions; (3) Core challenges to the Christian worldview today; and (4) How to expose the worldview of theological liberals (modernists and postmodernists) who pose as 'Christians'.

 

[DRS81]

Danus,

I'm an Aussie living in Australia (Brisbane) and I have never heard of Jonathan Cahn, but thanks to Dr Google, I went searching and found this article, http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=9653

So I have no opinion as I'm not fluent with what's happening in his part of the world and with him. Why don't you share with us your thoughts on Jonathan Cahn.

Jon is a born again christian, and is also fluent in Israel tradition and knowledge.
Aside from the Bible, the Harbinger book is probably the most prophetic piece of literature you will ever read.
Did you know that Isaiah 9:10 came alive in 2001, 2004 and 2008 and is a scripture of judgment..

Book - The Harbinger: The Ancient Mystery That Holds the Secret of America's Future by Jonathan Cahn
Dvd - The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment: Is There an Ancient Mystery that Foretells America's Future? starring Jonathan Cahn

 

[turnorburn]

Maybe you missed what i said here Granny..

they are a god unto themselves which i suppose the same could be said for all unbelievers difference being an atheist has a shingle to hang over their name is all..

tob