Atheism - an unanswered question

[OzSpen]

Jon is a born again christian, and is also fluent in Israel tradition and knowledge.
Aside from the Bible, the Harbinger book is probably the most prophetic piece of literature you will ever read.
Did you know that Isaiah 9:10 came alive in 2001, 2004 and 2008 and is a scripture of judgment..

Book - The Harbinger: The Ancient Mystery That Holds the Secret of America's Future by Jonathan Cahn
Dvd - The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment: Is There an Ancient Mystery that Foretells America's Future? starring Jonathan Cahn

By America, are you referring to the USA or all of North, Central, and South America?

 

[DRS81]

By America, are you referring to the USA or all of North, Central, and South America?

Judgment on America, USA. I encourage anyone to read that book. It will open thy eyes.

 

[Edward]

So, I ask again...atheists don't believe in a god or in God. they have rejected both God and the devil.

I remember a verse that says: they are of their father, the devil. That is, those who are not the Children of God.

Atheists have rejected both God and the devil and gods. They must belong somewhere? where is that 'somewhere'...... the devil's whom they also rejected?

Please, don't mention science. Anyone can be a scientist. Two fits in one mouth don't apply

That's a very good question brother. I heard a quip once that went like this, If there really was no God, then there wouldn't be any atheists. This sounds like a joke at first, but if you think about it...it's very profound and probably true.

Atheism is a choice. A cop-out if you ask me. A very carefully rationalized and pseudo-academic cop-out. They will have no excuse on judgment day. From what I have seen, atheists are usually very well read in scripture, have thought about it, and decided that it seems too hard to obey, too fun to sin and so, what? Well, there is no God, prove it to me and you can't so I don't believe. They need to see the power of God I suppose. Even if they claim no affiliation with the devil, the still serve him in sin. Scripture says that if you're not for God, then you;re against Him. There is no middle ground and it is a choice.

 

[OzSpen]

By America, are you referring to the USA or all of North, Central, and South America?

There are 7 billion people in the world of which only 314 million live in the USA. Why should judgment be coming to only 314 million and the rest of the 7,000 million miss out? Or does the book have another message about ALL nations appearing before God at the Judgment Seat?

Matt 25:32 (NIV) states:

All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.​

Not just the USA, but Australia and all the nations of all the world throughout all of human history. What an 'outing' that will be.

 

[gr8grace3]

It is very interesting that atheists are MAD AT or disagreeing with a "thing" that does not "really" exist. A life time of being mad at or explaining away mermaids.

 

[OzSpen]

It is very interesting that atheists are MAD AT or disagreeing with a "thing" that does not "really" exist. A life time of being mad at or explaining away mermaids.

That's not my experience in dialoging with atheists. Many I've spoken with are agro towards people who could be so deluded (Christians) as to believe in such fantasy. They want to correct such people so we don't continue to have the fairytale purveyors in our society.

Many of them try to make a scientific case for non-theism, often from a naturalistic worldview. I've met my fair share of them who are proud of the claim that theirs is the scientifically respectable conclusion. Yes, there is some pride amongst them and they want to try to demonstrate that there is no place in our society for those who perpetrate a fanciful delusion.

 

[Danus]

Danus,

That's not how I approach those who are sceptic, agnostic, atheistic, non-theist, etc. I never know when I might encounter someone like Lee Strobel who wrote:

'For much of my life I was a skeptic. In fact, I considered myself an atheist. To me, there was far too much evidence that God was merely a product of wishful thinking, of ancient mythology, of primitive superstition. How could there be a loving God if He consigned people to hell just for not believing in Him? How could miracles contravene the basic laws of nature? Didn’t evolution satisfactorily explain how life originated? Doesn’t scientific reasoning dispel belief in the supernatural?' (Lee Strobel 1998. The Case for Christ. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, p. 13).​

What did Paul do with those on the Areopagus who were 'very religious' and worshipped 'the unknown god'? He provided evidence for 'the God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth' (Acts 17:22-34 ESV ). He even moved on to talk of their being 'God's offspring (v 29), the command for all people everywhere to repent (v 30) and that 'he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness' by the One who was raised from the dead (v 31). What was the reaction? Some mocked, while others wanted to hear him again (v 32).

I treat the objections seriously, knowing that some are genuine while others could be a smoke screen. I never know when the Areopagus crowd or Lee Strobel might be in my midst.

Well, I agree we are to give an answer to that which we believe, but don't be discouraged if you fail to convince a nonbeliever about God.

There is an old saying; "You can lead a horse to water but you can't MAKE him drink." Do you know why you can't make him drink? Because you can't convince him he's thirsty.

Salvation does not occur on an intellectual argument about God. That's just leading a horse to water. If a person does not see the weight of their own sin in light of Gods righteousness, forgiveness and Mercy, and repent; turn to God and away from their own self will, then arguing Gods existence is not going to matter. They must be thirsty.

There are believers of God who do not live for Gods will; Who are still living for their own will. There are believers who acknowledge God exist, but only intellectually. They have seen the troth of water and believe, but they are not thirsty, and do not drink.

You can walk into many churches today that rarely speak of Jesus, don't mention salvation, or repentance, or Gods Judgement, and do you know why? Because it's offensive.

Does God exit? The evidence of God, and for God, is plain. God is self evident both to the believer and the unbeliever. The bible tells us we are without excuse, but when Paul says we are without excuse he does not merely mean we are without excuse for not believing if God exist or not. We are without excuse for God's wrath and judgment on us. Romans 1:18-20

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

There is nothing wrong with having an intellectual argument about God, but at some point the intellectual argument runs out, and it must turn to a moral argument, because unless a believer, or an unbeliever, repents and turns to God, seeks His mercy, turns from their own will, (Free will I might add), then nothing we do to convince anyone God is simply real is going to matter one bit in terms of salvation.

The unbeliever, the atheist, the agnostic, whatever, does not have a problem believing if God exist or not. What many have a problem with is reconciling God's Love with this evil world. Try convincing a non-believer that the world is evil. Try it. You will not get much of an argument from them.

The best evidence of God from us to others is not seen in what we might say intellectually about God, but rather the reflection of God in our lives to others. The reflection of God's Love, God's Mercy, God's Forgiveness. If we are not reflecting that to the nonbeliever then nothing we say is going to matter, and we might do well to also examine ourselves to see if we really believe what we say we do.

 

[OzSpen]

Salvation does not occur on an intellectual argument about God. That's just leading a horse to water. If a person does not see the weight of their own sin in light of Gods righteousness, forgiveness and Mercy, and repent; turn to God and away from their own self will, then arguing Gods existence is not going to matter. They must be thirsty....

There is nothing wrong with having an intellectual argument about God, but at some point the intellectual argument runs out, and it must turn to a moral argument, because unless a believer, or an unbeliever, repents and turns to God, seeks His mercy, turns from their own will, (Free will I might add), then nothing we do to convince anyone God is simply real is going to matter one bit in terms of salvation.

I agree. However, since Christians are called on to give a defense (an apologetic) for the hope that we have (1 Peter 3:15-16 ESV ), clearing away some of the 'intellectual' resistance to belief in God can be an important part of that defense. My experience is that the problem of evil is often such an impediment, but it can give us a wonderful opportunity to show the problem of sin and the cure in Jesus.

The best evidence of God from us to others is not seen in what we might say intellectually about God, but rather the reflection of God in our lives to others. The reflection of God's Love, God's Mercy, God's Forgiveness. If we are not reflecting that to the nonbeliever then nothing we say is going to matter, and we might do well to also examine ourselves to see if we really believe what we say we do.

Again, I don't disagree, but I've worked with a good number of people over the years who have been from the cults or are non-Christians who live lives of love, mercy and forgiveness. Living lives in themselves will not deal with the issues of proclamation and apologetics.

Oz