Atheist in a Christian Den.

[Tri Unity]

:bigfrown

Sorry Ato, I just don't want to be banter fodder for atheism. I don't recommend others to be either. It is not for us to try and convince you of Christianity. If you don't believe in your heart, then a forced conversion is useless. Christianity was not meant to look for debates; it is to look for the lost sheep. Jesus said His sheep know His voice and would respond. If you don't respond, we are to just leave you and move on. There is a real danger that debating can drain us and mould us into the wrong image. That is what the gospel means to me anyway. God speed.

 

[jasoncran]

as a former mod and well look at my posts. i have heard that line a thousand times and most of those poster didnt even last a month or at best a year.

if you stay , great. but forgive us if we are bit cynical.i Make it a point when im on national guard duty and now by rule title 10 not to debate with athiests. i saw that one time when i went to go talk to my sgt(team leader).

three christians arguing with an agnostic on the origins of life and is there a god etc. i sent a few things a left.sorry i couldnt resist some dumb statements on science by the agnostic.

 

[BornAgain]

Don't pray for me. Prayer is one of the most disgusting things I hate about religion. It does nothing, but to make the person doing it happy.

If you really want me to believe, you will have present evidence, not "Since I can't think of one way the universe could be created, therefore an intelligent being must have." is not a good arugment. Not at all.

Present evidence, not speculations. Present good evidence, not God of the Gaps argument.

I expected better.

Dear Athiest:

I understand you are looking for the truth and find prayer is disgusting....I will let the Bible speak. Sometimes God can't get a word in edgewise because man wants to do the talking. Here is what I found that may help you...

Luke 22:44-46 (KJV)
44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
45 And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,
46 And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.


Jesus is speaking here. He prayed fervently and asked his disciples to pray...Read the Bible and find the truth. It can't hurt anything...what can hurt is sometimes listening to man's interpretation and opinions. Let the Bible speak to you, there is where you will find the truth.

 

[BornAgain]

Sorry Ato, I just don't want to be banter fodder for atheism. I don't recommend others to be either. It is not for us to try and convince you of Christianity. If you don't believe in your heart, then a forced conversion is useless. Christianity was not meant to look for debates; it is to look for the lost sheep. Jesus said His sheep know His voice and would respond. If you don't respond, we are to just leave you and move on. There is a real danger that debating can drain us and mould us into the wrong image. That is what the gospel means to me anyway. God speed.

When someone is seeking the truth as it is stated in this thread, it is a Christian's responsiblity to teach the truth, spread the gospel. We are not to abandon that person and walk away or make recommendations that others should not either. Did you always respond to God when he was asking you to do something? Would He walk away if you didn't respond?


19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:19 (KJV)

To Interpret:

But whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.—Jesus here puts doing before teaching; this is the proper order, these are the two great things one can do; he can keep all of God's commandments and teach others to keep them, or he can disobey them himself and encourage others to disobey them. To relax the obligation of law either by precept or example is not the way to attain eminence in piety ourselves, or to promote it in others. It is bad to do wrong, but it is worse if in addition we teach others to do wrong. The one who breaks the commandment of God will be held in contempt by all the loyal subjects of the kingdom of God, but one who obeys the commandments of God shall be held in honor by the ones who are loyal subjects of his kingdom.
[The one who breaks one of the commandments of God is out of harmony with God. Harmony with God is heaven; discord with God is hell. The world was once in harmony with God; it was an outer court of heaven—the home of peace and joy—in which God dwelt and walked in the cool of the day as the companion of man, and in which man was immortal. The devil turned man from obedience to God, breathed into the world the spirit of discord and strife, changed the world into an antechamber of hell, and it became a charnel house of death and ruin. This was brought about by man's breaking the commandments of God.]
[If one sets aside or rejects one of the least commandments of God, and so teaches men, he will be rejected as the least and most unworthy of those in the kingdom, as such will be cast out into outer darkness, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth; but he who shall do and teach all these commandments shall be great in the kingdom of heaven.
This breaking of the commandment seems to be willful, since connected with it was the teaching of others to set aside the law. It means the same that James meant when he said, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is become guilty of all." (James 2:10.) Our fidelity to God is tested as easily in literal things as in great ones; rather, nothing is little where God's authority is at stake.]
—Gospel Advocate Commentaries

 

[rrowell]

I don't think you guys are beneath me... In fact, some of you guys are smarter than me, I am not arrogant enough to even think that I am the best on here.

Way to go, Ma'am at saying you read this whole entire thing, but I doubt it. If you did, you would find that I explained why I am here MULTIPLE times, and it is not to cause strife, but to learn the truth.

It would do no good for me to quote the Bible to you yet, because first you need a purpose to use it, or believe there is something of value in it...

Your vision is obviously one of science and base your belief on what is seen and deny what is not...

One could simply drill down any scientist by repeating one simple never ending question "where did that come from?" with every answer he may give.

Man can come up with all kinds of methodical ways things have come to existence, and believe it or not many of these things could be so, it could be that two stars collided or some sun blew up or any other big bang theory they wish to come up with, but did it ever cross your mind that this could have been a way God "made" things?

Like man uses mortar to assemble bricks to build a house, he first made the mortar, and made the bricks...

I wish man would have spent as much money and time on curing cancer as they have trying to prove God does not exist...

Is it not easier just to believe? and if we (Christians) are correct, is it worth eternal torment for the non believer?, but if you are correct and the Christian is not, what has the Christian lost? has the world ever suffered from a good Christian?

If you take the advice of poster "BornAgain" and give the Bible a chance you may just find some real peace in your heart and life in general...

 

[Atothetheist]

It would do no good for me to quote the Bible to you yet, because first you need a purpose to use it, or believe there is something of value in it...

Your vision is obviously one of science and base your belief on what is seen and deny what is not...

One could simply drill down any scientist by repeating one simple never ending question "where did that come from?" with every answer he may give.

Man can come up with all kinds of methodical ways things have come to existence, and believe it or not many of these things could be so, it could be that two stars collided or some sun blew up or any other big bang theory they wish to come up with, but did it ever cross your mind that this could have been a way God "made" things?

Like man uses mortar to assemble bricks to build a house, he first made the mortar, and made the bricks...

I wish man would have spent as much money and time on curing cancer as they have trying to prove God does not exist...

Is it not easier just to believe? and if we (Christians) are correct, is it worth eternal torment for the non believer?, but if you are correct and the Christian is not, what has the Christian lost? has the world ever suffered from a good Christian?

If you take the advice of poster "BornAgain" and give the Bible a chance you may just find some real peace in your heart and life in general...

Dear Christians:

I have read the Bible, I was a Christian ( Catholic). I have also dabbled in being baptist as well. I am not unfamiliar with the Bible. Do not think I am ignorant of your scripute when I used to base my life on the thing.

Also, to the one who says what do I have to lose, becoming a Good Christian. You have as much as I do. What if the Islamic God was true? Then both of us would go to hell. What if any other God was true, but not yours, then you and me have the same destination.


You are not free from punishment just because you are a Christian, other religions( if they come true) will be sending you to their version of Hell along with me.

Quote scripture at me, and I will read it, but it is on par to a bad fiction story to me. It won't do a thing until you show me that the Bible is the thing we are supposed to follow.

And I don't want to believe in whats easier, I want to believe in whats TRUE.

Where is the evidence?

 

[rrowell]

Dear Christians:

I have read the Bible, I was a Christian ( Catholic). I have also dabbled in being baptist as well. I am not unfamiliar with the Bible. Do not think I am ignorant of your scripute when I used to base my life on the thing.

Also, to the one who says what do I have to lose, becoming a Good Christian. You have as much as I do. What if the Islamic God was true? Then both of us would go to hell. What if any other God was true, but not yours, then you and me have the same destination.

True, but you ask me to prove what I believe the bible says and why I believe it, and then give me a non biblical response and ask me to prove it?

You say that you have read the bible, then you must have read this:

Mark 3:29 (KJV)
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Now do you know what this says? this should be your first study... If you have learned in the Catholic or Baptist faith you should know what this is, because you are close to falling into this category and I pray you do not....

You are not free from punishment just because you are a Christian, other religions( if they come true) will be sending you to their version of Hell along with me.

You are correct, there is 1 God, there is 1 Church, there is 1 head of that Church, so one of us "in a Church" are right, and all the other "Churches" are wrong, and I will always have someone to show me where I am wrong because I wish to be right... but they must prove to me in the word of God where I am wrong... even a Christian in the Lords Church can fall from grace...

Quote scripture at me, and I will read it, but it is on par to a bad fiction story to me. It won't do a thing until you show me that the Bible is the thing we are supposed to follow.

And I don't want to believe in whats easier, I want to believe in whats TRUE.

Okay, here is another one:

You need to listen very closely to these words too:

2 Peter 2:21 (KJV)
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Where is the evidence?

Its all around you, in the air you breath, the light you see, the food you eat...

Matthew 5:45 (KJV)
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

 

[Atothetheist]

True, but you ask me to prove what I believe the bible says and why I believe it, and then give me a non biblical response and ask me to prove it?

You say that you have read the bible, then you must have read this:

Mark 3:29 (KJV)
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Now do you know what this says? this should be your first study... If you have learned in the Catholic or Baptist faith you should know what this is, because you are close to falling into this category and I pray you do not....

You are correct, there is 1 God, there is 1 Church, there is 1 head of that Church, so one of us "in a Church" are right, and all the other "Churches" are wrong, and I will always have someone to show me where I am wrong because I wish to be right... but they must prove to me in the word of God where I am wrong... even a Christian in the Lords Church can fall from grace...

Okay, here is another one:

You need to listen very closely to these words too:

2 Peter 2:21 (KJV)
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Its all around you, in the air you breath, the light you see, the food you eat...

Matthew 5:45 (KJV)
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

The King james version is not a version I would follow. I would use the NASB.

First of all, denying the Holy Spirit is something I have already done. And if that is a warrent for ETERNAL punishment, so be it. I find that God a replusive, and a inferior being to be if he doles out unfair punishments.

The Bible does nothing for me.

 

[BornAgain]

The King james version is not a version I would follow. I would use the NASB.

First of all, denying the Holy Spirit is something I have already done. And if that is a warrent for ETERNAL punishment, so be it. I find that God a replusive, and a inferior being to be if he doles out unfair punishments.

The Bible does nothing for me.

Here is scripture from the NASB, "the one you would use." It says the same thing as the KJV...

29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"--
Mark 3:29 (NASB)

 

[Atothetheist]

Here is scripture from the NASB, "the one you would use." It says the same thing as the KJV...

29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"--
Mark 3:29 (NASB)

Which is why I wouldn't follow this God.

Making an eternal sin is something that is repugnant to me.

 

[Tri Unity]

When someone is seeking the truth as it is stated in this thread, it is a Christian's responsiblity to teach the truth, spread the gospel. We are not to abandon that person and walk away or make recommendations that others should not either.

"And wisdom is justified by her works." (Mat 11:19)
Let's see how this pans out... My guess is the thread will get closed on the same grounds that Captain Zepto's was closed yesterday.

 

[BornAgain]

Which is why I wouldn't follow this God.

Making an eternal sin is something that is repugnant to me.

It sounded strange to me at first, too. I know that feeling...I also know how confused I was, hopeless, lacking, etc. I had money, friends, cars, whatever I wanted but was still searching for something. I decided to give it a try, I had nothing to lose....I was converted, baptized and have never looked back.

 

[abigail]

I can put up with it, but when it is used in a manner I dislike, which is what I protested against, it is something I disagree with.

Lets say I do come to Jesus, would she be responsible because she prayed for me?

I don't see it that way.

Most of the things I like to do end up really helping people.

I dont want to be responcible nor would i want to take any credit in anything God does for you or anyone else. I pray because I have a personal relationship with my Father. and since i do I get to talk to Him and be in His presence. I used to have the same arguments you have. its ok.. I understand more than you think.

 

[abigail]

I can kinda see what you are saying here. A lot of "Christians" use "I'll pray for you" as a way of blowing off helping you and not feeling guilty about it.

After all, they did pray for you.

Unfortunately there are many like that in the churches.

The churches and the fellowship were never perfect. Read Rev 2 and 3, the 7 letters thing

you can only do for a person what they will accept.. so when you cant go over to there home and hug them and pray with them and be their friend you resort to praying for them..

 

[Atothetheist]

It sounded strange to me at first, too. I know that feeling...I also know how confused I was, hopeless, lacking, etc. I had money, friends, cars, whatever I wanted but was still searching for something. I decided to give it a try, I had nothing to lose....I was converted, baptized and have never looked back.

FOR THE LAST TIME. I AM NOT HOPELESS, NOR LACKING. I DO NOT FEEL EMPTY, NOR DO HAVE I EVER FELT EMOTIONALLY LOST.

The reason I want to know is so I could base myself off of reality, so I can be the most realistic person I can be.

Just because you had these feelings, doesn't mean I do. I am not hopeless because there are good people, doing good out there in the world without the need of spiritual guidence. I am not lacking because I know that regardless of religion people will usually strive to be the best they think they can be. I do not feel empty because I have my family's love, I don't need God's. I will never feel lost, because I have always found MYSELF again if I bothered to search.

While you may have had money, and friends, and whatever, that doesn't mean you could compare to me, or even begin to understand me.

Heck, you don't even know me in real life, I am just a username to you.

 

[reba]

Posters need to remember they are here by their own choice. Most folks here are Christian and will give their views of Christian thought. Offer prayer quote Scripture. This is a Christian forum... Be respectful of where we are.

 

[Danus]

FOR THE LAST TIME. I AM NOT HOPELESS, NOR LACKING. I DO NOT FEEL EMPTY, NOR DO HAVE I EVER FELT EMOTIONALLY LOST.

The reason I want to know is so I could base myself off of reality, so I can be the most realistic person I can be.

Just because you had these feelings, doesn't mean I do. I am not hopeless because there are good people, doing good out there in the world without the need of spiritual guidence. I am not lacking because I know that regardless of religion people will usually strive to be the best they think they can be. I do not feel empty because I have my family's love, I don't need God's. I will never feel lost, because I have always found MYSELF again if I bothered to search.

While you may have had money, and friends, and whatever, that doesn't mean you could compare to me, or even begin to understand me.

Heck, you don't even know me in real life, I am just a username to you.

Take it easy brother. Not everyone is saved in life, but there are a lot of former non-believers here who have experienced salvation, and are just trying to relate. You're the one in a Christian Forum.

 

[Atothetheist]

Take it easy brother. Not everyone is saved in life, but there are a lot of former non-believers here who have experienced salvation, and are just trying to relate. You're the one in a Christian Forum.

Yeah, but I will not stand people claiming that just because I am not a Christian I am any of those things.

Quote scripture, pray, it won't do a thing to me.

The only way to concince me, if you are sincere, is to present me with evidence that your world view is right.

That is the only way you guys could "save" me.

 

[Tri Unity]

The only way to concince me, if you are sincere, is to present me with evidence that your world view is right.

If atheism is right, then there cannot be such a thing as a "world-view"? Every view must ultimately be a subjective distortion and an illusion, including atheism itself. Why do you even talk about the meaning of randomly colliding atoms; that is dillusional. Education is a dillusion; law is a dillusion; love is a dillusion; money is a dillusion; the forest is a dillusion and so is the cat. If your view is right, then you are even more dillusional than the rest of us, for you are trying to argue a logical belief when there cannot be one. Christians are at least consistent with their beliefs. Atheists are the most dillusional; for they try to find "meaning" in love, in money, in education, in law, in society, in faithfulness, in integrity... when all of these things are completely a dillusional momentary experience which was randomly and chaotically encountered merely by chance.

Do you use the legal system? Dillusional!
Do you marry? Dillusional!
Do you have insurance? Dillusional!
Do you have an education? Dillusional!

Christianity is at least consistent with its beliefs (hypocritical, but consistent); atheism is totally inconsistent.

 

[Danus]

Yeah, but I will not stand people claiming that just because I am not a Christian I am any of those things.

Quote scripture, pray, it won't do a thing to me.

The only way to concince me, if you are sincere, is to present me with evidence that your world view is right.

That is the only way you guys could "save" me.

No one can save anyone or prove God to an unbeliever. We can point to him & show Christ in our lives. It's been said that God works through his people. He can reach out to the lost through others & he does, but there is a reason you are here that only you know. Personally I don't care why your here I'm just glad you are.