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AVATAR! a mockery of Christ?

JamesG said:
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watchman F

Didn’t I already mention that any discussion about the conscience and the Holy Spirit is not appropriate on this thread? No matter. And your denial that I am a Christian simply because I disagree with you is a bit gauche, don’t you think? But that too is of no matter.

Aren’t you more concerned about the meaning of this?

TO ALL:

Personal attacks need to stop now. We don't want any warnings given here...but if it needs to happen, it will.


Is this note actually from the monitors or a disgruntled poster? If it is from the monitors, don’t they realize that generalizations in the form of a quote of rules mean nothing? Specifics are necessary in order to understand and to comply or challenge their concerns.

JamesG
I have never denied you were a christian. I stated your opinion is unbiblical and sometimes unchristian. However I never said you yourself were unsaved.
 
jasoncran said:
wow, i thought people didnt like harry potter. this movie will be like that one too. Folks, one must decide whether or not foryourself if its wise or not to watch this movie. I can do somethings that you may find unchristlike(bjj and or mma) and vice versa.

Let's not be soo heavenly minded that we are no earthly good.
Jason, not to get off topic, but there is a big difference between Harry Potter an Avatar. Avatar may be a dark shade of gray, but Harry Potter is pitch black, and no christian should watch it and we certainly shouldn't allow our children to.
 
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jasoncran

I haven't watched any TV since they changed here from cable to the dish a couple of years ago. I rarely go out to watch movies anymore. In the last years time, I have watched four movies that turned out to be quite good. I watched "Angels and Demons", an interesting whodunit that is definitely not from a Christian point of view but is not against Christianity like DaVinci Code had more of a tendency to be, the 3-D cartoon feature "UP" that my grandkid and I both enjoyed, the new Star Trek movie that is interesting in that it offers an alternate universe perspective for the newest generation, and "Avatar". I did want to check out that new Sherlock Holmes movie, but never got the chance. The movie that I enjoyed before that was the third segment of Star Wars. I'm not a kid anymore who goes to the movies every weekend. I buy more DVD’s than I go out to watch anymore. My first love is Science Fiction. My second love is Mysteries. When I used to watch TV in a recent sense, I really enjoyed both "Eureka" and "Monk". And I watched reruns of Star Trek: TNG. And I watched all of the Star Trek series when they were on, including all of the movies. One of my all time favorite mystery type shows is "Burkes Law". It came out in the early 1960's and is in BW. They put the first season on DVD, but the great recession apparently stopped them from coming out with the second season. I watched "Murder She Wrote" religiously, if you'll pardon the pun, for the ten years that it was on. For me, the character's personalities play a big part in whether I enjoy a movie or a series. And the main characters in the shows that I watch generally show more Christian character than a lot of Christians that I know.

At the moment, my favorite form of entertainment has been Christian forums, much like this one. I don't often get very involved as I have here. The only reason I got on here is because I believe that Avatar is getting a bum rap. Of course, only Cameron knows for sure if any of what I or anyone else has said is true. And he has not said a thing about the matter. For good reason, controversy over a movie brings in the money. Look what happened to "The DaVinci Code". It was a full blown Christian controversy in that case that made a lot of money for its creators. The Christians made a big mistake when they responded to that movie. If the vociferous Christians would have kept silent, it would have blown over like the wind. Instead, out came a sequel and apparently another soon to follow. Not quite what the vociferous ones intended I think.

In the case of Avatar, some Hindus came down on the movie. But it wasn't much of a controversy. There is more controversy here from the Christians, sorry to say. And it is a controversy that is too little too late. Everyone has already watched the movie. Those who are watching it now are the ones that like to watch a movie a hundred times. And the controversy here is for the wrong reasons in my opinion.

I did finally read something where Cameron admitted to being on the side of the environmentalists. There was some question as to the legitimacy of the article. But it does sound like Cameron. In my opinion, taking care of our planet is not a bad thing. That was the original purpose of Adam, at least the piece of the planet that he was in. If we destroy this planet, it’s going to be hard to find another one. Unless it is God’s will that we destroy the planet just before Jesus returns. And there are Biblical verses that intimate that there will be no or very little real faith when he returns. And that would pretty much destroy the planet what with our modern technology. That time could be now from what I have seen in the last few years. I say that not from the perspective of the world, but from what I have seen in Christian circles.

I never like to go against another person’s feeling about things. But when some expect me to be bothered by the things that they are bothered by and then intimate that there is something wrong with me for not agreeing with them? That is stepping over the line to me. There is a negative emphasis on all three threads about Avatar that are on this forum. This imbalance is not on other Christian forums that I am familiar with, except the forums that are already negative anyway. I don’t bother with them. On this forum, I am the positive balance. The other side of the story. If that bothers the negative ones, then the problem is theirs.

Perhaps you could give a few thoughts on the different perspective that I propose.

JamesG
 
watchman F said:
jasoncran said:
wow, i thought people didnt like harry potter. this movie will be like that one too. Folks, one must decide whether or not foryourself if its wise or not to watch this movie. I can do somethings that you may find unchristlike(bjj and or mma) and vice versa.

Let's not be soo heavenly minded that we are no earthly good.
Jason, not to get off topic, but there is a big difference between Harry Potter an Avatar. Avatar may be a dark shade of gray, but Harry Potter is pitch black, and no christian should watch it and we certainly shouldn't allow our children to.
I'd be very interested to discuss your thoughts on Harry Potter, but in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39427
 
EdtheNed and watchman F

Let’s consider this matter from a different angle. Who created the Na’vi and the creatures on Pandora? Or did they just evolve there by chance? Does the movie give a hint as to how it considers this matter? Does the Bible hint somewhere that living beings such as ourselves and the fauna and flora on the earth were also created on other planets?
- JamesG

I have not seen the movie yet, so it is difficult for me to answer. I have only read comments on the film. I hope to see it this weekend so I will give my personal opinion on the matter. If I feel that the comments that I have read I will gladly mention that.

With regards to life on other planets, I have not yet read anything in the Bible that has lead me to believe in this. If you have any verses that might lead someone in that direction, please share so I to can study what is written.

I will gladly write a full response to the movie afterthe weekend as I understood it.
 
Aero_Hudson said:
I think folks are looking a bit too deep into this one. The movie is very entertaining and quite good. It has no hidden meaning. Cameron is pretty direct regarding some of the political / environmental messages he has in the film.

I agree
 
Cameron is pretty direct regarding some of the political / environmental messages he has in the film.

I cannot see how the movie has no spiritual message. From the reviews there is talk of a goddess. I will make a clear statement after I have seen the movie and have had some time to form my own clear opinion.
Just so I can understand a few things I understand the planets name was Pandora. Pandora's box or jar is known as a box of evil. But who was Pandora. According to Wikipedia:
After Prometheus' theft of the secret of fire, Zeus ordered Hephaestus to create the first woman, Pandora, as part of the punishment of mankind.
Raises the question as why was the Planet called Pandora?
 
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Ed the Ned

Pandora is the name given to the moon by the Corporation. I don't remember what the Na'vi called it, if they even had a name for it. The name Pandora probably comes from their seeing the moon as something relating to danger and evil, something akin to Pandora’s box. The head of security says that after spending some time on Pandora you may want to go to hell for some R & R. That is the way they thought of it, as an evil place that is even worse than hell. Try to see with Jake as he changes his mind about the planet after seeing it through the eyes of the Na'vi. You will have to fight to have an open mind that can see the beauty of Pandora because your mind has already been tainted by all of the negative reviews. Cameron made the planet seem spectacularly beautiful on purpose. As a contrast to what the Corporation and their mercenaries thought of it. Indeed, if you see the movie you will notice the contrast between the environment of the Corporation and the environment of Pandora. And that is all that I ask of you. Don’t just watch the movie, see the movie, experience the movie. It will make all the difference.

JamesG
 
Now I've seen the movie: And I think it is a good movie, it was entertaining and had a good story line. A storyline filled with pantheism and new age beliefs and from the outcome of the movie. It promotes it 100%.

I have been a bit busy to give a full brief according to my understanding, but before I do I would like to put these two links for people to get a look at.

Those who think that James Cameron has no hidden agenda read this:

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/James-Cameron-To-Terminate-Christianity-4562.html


and to give another opinion:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/21/opinion/21douthat1.html?_r=1

JamesG I respect the fact that in your opinion it is just a movie, but after seeing it, and noticing the religious connotations I don't believe James Cameron only wanted to entertain. I might have been looking at it from my perspective, but seriously I believe it was very religious.
 
Sorry Ed, I'm walking out the door so I'll read your stuff later. But here's a good seciton on the themes from Wikipedia. I think it's good to acutallly go to James Cameron himself and ask these questions.

Avatar is primarily an action-adventure journey of self-discovery, in the context of imperialism and biodiversity.[63] Cameron said his inspiration was "every single science fiction book I read as a kid", and that he was particularly striving to update the style of Edgar Rice Burroughs's John Carter series.[34] The director has acknowledged that Avatar shares themes with the films At Play in the Fields of the Lord and The Emerald Forest, which feature clashes between cultures and civilizations, and that the film shares connections with Dances With Wolves, where a battered soldier finds himself drawn to the culture he was initially fighting against.[64]

In a 2007 interview with Time magazine, Cameron was asked about the meaning of the term avatar, to which he replied, "It's an incarnation of one of the Hindu gods taking a flesh form. In this film what that means is that the human technology in the future is capable of injecting a human's intelligence into a remotely located body, a biological body."[8]

The look of the Na'vi—the humanoids indigenous to Pandora—was inspired by a dream that Cameron's mother had, long before he started work on Avatar. In her dream, she saw a twelve-foot-tall blue-skinned woman, which he thought was "kind of a cool image". He included similar creatures in his first screenplay (written in 1976 or 1977), which featured a planet with a native population of "gorgeous" tall blue aliens. These later became the basis for the Na'vi.[63] On the specific reason for the choice of blue as their skin color, Cameron said "I just like blue. It's a good color ... plus, there's a connection to the Hindu deities,[65] which I like conceptually."[66]
A grey mountain in the middle of a forest.
Pandora's floating "Hallelujah Mountains" were inspired in part by the Chinese Huang Shan mountains (pictured).[67]

For the film's floating "Hallelujah Mountains", the designers drew inspiration from "many different types of mountains, but mainly the karst limestone formations in China."[68] According to production designer Dylan Cole, the fictional floating rocks were inspired by Mount Huang (also known as Huangshan) and the mountains of the Hunan province, among others around the world.[68] Director Cameron had noted the influence of the Chinese peaks on the design of the floating mountains, saying at a December 2009 press conference in Beijing, "all we had to do was simply recreate Huangshan Mountain in outer space."[69] When Cameron was asked if he got the idea for the floating mountains from an album cover of the rock band Yes, he replied with a laugh, "It might have been ... Back in my pot-smoking days."[66]

To create the interiors of the human mining colony on Pandora, production designers visited the Noble Clyde Boudreaux[70] oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico during June 2007. They photographed, measured and filmed every aspect of the platform, which was later replicated on-screen with photorealistic CGI during post-production.[71]

For the love story between characters Jake and Neytiri, Cameron applied a star-crossed love theme, and acknowledged its similarity to the pairing of Jack and Rose from his film Titanic. Both couples come from radically different cultures that are contemptuous of their relationship and are forced to choose sides between the competing communities. "They both fall in love with each other, but they need to fight side-by-side, and so there's that kind of requirement to let the other person go in order to do what you need to do, which is kind of interesting," said Cameron.[72] He felt that whether or not the Jake and Neytiri love story would be perceived as believable partially hinged on Neytiri's attractiveness. "So the physiological differences—the more alien we make them in the design phase, we just kept asking ourselves—basically, the crude version is: 'Well, would you wanna do it?'" stated Cameron. The all-male crew of artists were used to perfect the Na'vi attractiveness.[73] Though Cameron felt Jake and Neytiri do not fall in love right away, Worthington and Saldana, the characters' portrayers, disagreed. Cameron said Worthington and Saldana "had a great chemistry" during filming.[72]

At Comic Con 2009, Cameron told attendees that he wanted to make "something that has this spoonful of sugar of all the action and the adventure and all that". He wanted this to thrill him "as a fan" but also have a conscience "that maybe in the enjoying of it makes you think a little bit about the way you interact with nature and your fellow man".[74] He added that "the Na'vi represent something that is our higher selves, or our aspirational selves, what we would like to think we are" and that even though there are good humans within the film, the humans "represent what we know to be the parts of ourselves that are trashing our world and maybe condemning ourselves to a grim future".[74]
Some of these things you can't raise without being called unpatriotic, but I think it's very patriotic to question a system that needs to be corralled, or it becomes Rome.
—James Cameron[75]

Cameron acknowledges that Avatar implicitly criticizes America's role in the Iraq War and the impersonal nature of mechanized warfare in general.[76] In reference to the use of the term shock and awe in the film, Cameron said, "We know what it feels like to launch the missiles. We don't know what it feels like for them to land on our home soil, not in America." He said in a later interview, "The film is definitely not anti-American."[77] A scene in the film portrays the violent destruction of the towering Na'vi Hometree, which collapses in flames after a missile attack, coating the landscape with ash and floating embers. Asked about the scene's resemblance to the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center, Cameron said he had been "surprised at how much it did look like September 11".[76]

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(2009_film)#Themes_and_inspirations
 
In the wikipedia article it states that Cameron took the idea of blue from Hindu dieties. Please refer to the following short Article

http://www.cnngo.com/mumbai/play/avatar-hindu-perspective-961455

I have seen the movie and I cannot believe that people can still say there are no religious connections in the movie. I also believe the world is in for a rude awakening soon. We seem to have forgotten that God is a God of wrath as well as Love and that he is Holy (Completely Holy).
We are enlightening ourselves with wrong doctrine, we are accepting lies as truth. I think the movie was an amazing work of art and I believe Cameron is the leader in his field. BUT he is using his field to promote false religious teachings.
Do you really think Cameron is going to publically announce his true motives. He will loose his Christian customers across the world. I am busy compiling a more indepth study on Avatar and the impact of the movie on the Christian faith. So it would be wrong for me to make to many comments right now.

Just think about it. I was in management for a long time and I knew that when I wanted to get the message across to employees, it had to be done in an entertaining way.
 
It is a fantasy world with a fantasy culture. Does anyone expect someone to worship Navi deities?
I figure i you are convicted and watch it anyway it is a sin. If you take as as Sci-fi and it doesn't give you conscience issues before God then just watch it for what it is- entertainment.
What is sin to one may not be for another.
 
I'm not denying that it has religious undertones...what I am saying is that it didn't affect me, and I have absolutely no desire to worship anything in that movie that is not God, although I think a good message comveyed in the movie would to be good stewards to the envrionment.
Depending upon our individual ideas and experiences, we will take something different from the movie than others. Just depends on one's self.
 
Nick said:
I'm not denying that it has religious undertones...what I am saying is that it didn't affect me, and I have absolutely no desire to worship anything in that movie that is not God, although I think a good message comveyed in the movie would to be good stewards to the envrionment.
Depending upon our individual ideas and experiences, we will take something different from the movie than others. Just depends on one's self.
The were not good stewards of their environment just because. They thought that all living things were enter-connected to their goddess, their version of the wiccans ''mother earth'' Ewhah.
 
watchman F said:
Nick said:
I'm not denying that it has religious undertones...what I am saying is that it didn't affect me, and I have absolutely no desire to worship anything in that movie that is not God, although I think a good message comveyed in the movie would to be good stewards to the envrionment.
Depending upon our individual ideas and experiences, we will take something different from the movie than others. Just depends on one's self.
The were not good stewards of their environment just because. They thought that all living things were enter-connected to their goddess, their version of the wiccans ''mother earth'' Ewhah.
What they thought the living things were connected to is not the point. Read my post again.
 
Nick said:
watchman F said:
Nick said:
I'm not denying that it has religious undertones...what I am saying is that it didn't affect me, and I have absolutely no desire to worship anything in that movie that is not God, although I think a good message comveyed in the movie would to be good stewards to the envrionment.
Depending upon our individual ideas and experiences, we will take something different from the movie than others. Just depends on one's self.
The were not good stewards of their environment just because. They thought that all living things were enter-connected to their goddess, their version of the wiccans ''mother earth'' Ewhah.
What they thought the living things were connected to is not the point. Read my post again.
It was the point to me. Read my post again.
 
*sigh*

Ok watchman, let's start over.


I said that what I got out of the movie was to be good stewards of the environment.Certainly they thought that it was all connected to a goddess or whatever, but so what? I don't believe that's the point of the film. It's some good entertainment, which promotes good stewardship of the envrionment.
But each to their own.
 
Nick, I appreciate the fact that you believe that this movie has a pro-enviromental message. Which in a certain sense it has. But the way the message is portrayed is anti-christian. It is when we accept these messages, whether it be entertainment or not, we open our thoughts and emotions to them. There was not Hollywood in the first centuary, yet the entertainment that was provided by the Romans was to put man against man, against beast etc. THAT WAS REAL and it affected those who watched it, making them tender to violence and horrific acts.
People spend years in therapy after being abused or attacked or after they have been witness to things. Just because it happens on the big screen, does not make it not effect you.
When we watch movies, we are subjected to more visuals than ever before. The beliefs of the writers and directors and imprinted on their creation. Do you think it has no effect on you? Its not just the bad that imprints into your mind, its the emotions of certain scenarios and the words and actions.
Avatar has a far deeper meaning than you might realize.

Its anti God. (Our God)

As Christians we know that sin started at the tree of life. It funny that the main life of the Na'vi was within a tree. The planet is called Pandora (What the humans call it) Read my previous meaning to who Pandora was.

Watchman has made some valid points.


Visually it was a great movie and it was entertaining, the message was out of sink with my belief in God. And hopefully yours to. It would be a good idea to relook the enviromental message as watchman has pointed out.
 
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Ed

Would you agree that movies such as "Star Trek", "Star Wars", and "Lord of the Rings", "Mission to Mars", "Red Planet", "The Fifth Element", "Event Horizon", and "Total Recall" are also anti-Christian movies?

JamesG
 
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