Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

AVATAR ...a pandoras box?

Aero_Hudson said:
It is a movie...nothing more nothing less. It tells a story to entertain us. It is not meant to be absorbed as some sort of educational film on how to worship nature or some other strange concept. Everything in the film is there for one sole purpose...to tell us a story and to entertain.
Movies, like art, are almost never meant as mere entertainment. There is pretty much always a message being given, whether implicitly or explicitly. Changes in societal beliefs and attitudes almost always happen first in art. For more on the matter I suggest reading something by Francis Schaeffer.
 
Free said:
Aero_Hudson said:
It is a movie...nothing more nothing less. It tells a story to entertain us. It is not meant to be absorbed as some sort of educational film on how to worship nature or some other strange concept. Everything in the film is there for one sole purpose...to tell us a story and to entertain.
Movies, like art, are almost never meant as mere entertainment. There is pretty much always a message being given, whether implicitly or explicitly. Changes in societal beliefs and attitudes almost always happen first in art. For more on the matter I suggest reading something by Francis Schaeffer.

I agree. It is alright for movies and other media to get you to think. How you respond to that is up to you. Most of the time, I choose to respond with a thumbs up or thumbs down based on how well the movie entertained me.
 
Free said:
Aero_Hudson said:
It is a movie...nothing more nothing less. It tells a story to entertain us. It is not meant to be absorbed as some sort of educational film on how to worship nature or some other strange concept. Everything in the film is there for one sole purpose...to tell us a story and to entertain.
Movies, like art, are almost never meant as mere entertainment. There is pretty much always a message being given, whether implicitly or explicitly. Changes in societal beliefs and attitudes almost always happen first in art. For more on the matter I suggest reading something by Francis Schaeffer.
i see that influence from ravi zacharias again, and yes that is truth.
 
sheshisown said:
My Opinion for what it is worth...

Well... what's new? Nothing under the sun it seems. Worshiping nature is really an old satanic ploy. But actually the close to nudity thing, and the fact that the creators went to such lengths to make the avatars like those in the popular gaming industry become engaged physically is much more harmful for those who are INTO such things... :yes

A ton of men and women (Christian guys and gals~ both, under age and old men) play these "games" and find themselves engrossed in fantasy relationships. SO sad... :help

This movie encourages the fornicating and child abuse going on there, and does NOTHING to promote Christ. God help us.

sheshisown~ [/color]

I'm confused, did you actually SEE the movie? If so, please expand on your accusations of fantasy relations, "Old Men," and child abuse. If not, then do not judge a movie, or anything for that matter, without first seeing it, or at least, reading about it from multiple credible sources, not just one, biased, and in this case, wrong, review...

Like others have stated, we respect your stance, but only if it is a stance founded on truth and experience.

As to your statement "God help us."
I can think of at least 10 movies I have seen previews for in the past 6 months for movies that will be just as popular as this, and be 10x more devastating to the Christian way of life than this. And I feel that this statement is actually taking the LORDs name in vain...
:twocents
 
.
.
There is a part in Avatar that apparently everybody missed

Jake plugs into the tree and begins praying to it. Natiri comes up behind him and tells him that the tree can not hear his prayers. The purpose of the tree is to keep the balance of nature and that is all. Jake replies, “Well, I triedâ€. At the end of the movie the tree does precisely according to its purpose. The humans are busy destroying everything in sight and want to even destroy the tree, thinking that its destruction will drive out the Na’vi. The tree sends the dinosaur like creatures and stops the carnage. Only the humans have the mistaken impression, Jake included, that the tree is the God of the Na’vi. The tree is merely a central focus of the union of the Na'vi with nature.

Everyone should learn from this movie that living with nature, instead of against it, is to our own advantage.

The only time that children are abused in this movie is when the humans are trying to drive out Na’vi.

Trying to say that it’s just a movie is naïve. Every movie has a purpose. Usually sex or violence. This movie is different in that the sex is played down and the violence is actually integral to the story. That in itself should reveal that this is a great movie.

This movie is on the order of the tales told by J. R. R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis wherein the good guys and the bad guys are well defined. Christians should appreciate every movie that is like Avatar. And as I was watching Avatar I was constantly being reminded of Science Fiction literature where much of this movie is found. Beginning with Edgar Rice Burroughs and his Martian series, to a very good book written by Ursula Le Guin called “The Word for World is Forestâ€

As far as the movie being something of Satan… Humans are quite capable of evil themselves without any help from Satan. Apparently, we have a follower of Witness Lee who started this thread. We should consider ourselves very fortunate to be in a country (America) where evil is at least restrained. And we should enjoy it while we can cause it ain’t always gonna be that way.

And I hope that I get kicked off this forum for saying this, since this is my first post. I don’t want to keep writing posts thinking that I can speak my mind if I really am not supposed to.

I feel sorry for those who have such an attitude that everything and everybody that is not like them is of Satan. They must live very self-centered lives. I don’t like Jihad Christians who probably would destroy even their own kind in the name of their God if they had half a chance. They should take a closer look at Jesus who associated with the lowest of the low. Not because they were low, but because they needed him more than anyone else. Christians who knock a movie that probably is more Christian orientated than most Christian movies should be shaken until they get some sense. It is fortunate that most of the Christians that I know are “not†of this type. The ones that I know who are, I ignore as being ignorant and not yet knowing the real Jesus Christ.

JamesG
 
Movies, like art, are almost never meant as mere entertainment. There is pretty much always a message being given, whether implicitly or explicitly. Changes in societal beliefs and attitudes almost always happen first in art. For more on the matter I suggest reading something by Francis Schaeffer.

Thank you for the sense you provide in this discussion Free~ :thumb

As evangelical Christians, we have tended to relegate art to the very fringe of life. The rest of human life we feel is more important. Despite our constant talk about the Lordship of Christ, we have narrowed its scope to a very small area of reality. We have misunderstood the concept of the Lordship of Christ over the whole of man and the whole of the universe and have not taken to us the riches that the Bible gives us for ourselves, for our lives, and for our culture.

Christianity is not just "dogmatically" true or "doctrinally" true. Rather, it is true to what is there, true in the whole area of the whole man in all of life.

We do not seem to understand that the arts too are supposed to be under the Lordship of Christ.
These quotes are from Francis Schaeffer... :chin

My references to child abuse were aimed at the Avatars used in games by men and teens playing on the net. . . And I actually did read many reviews of this movie, including watching a commentary by the creators before I started this thread. How can I see a movie I am morally against seeing? Would you ask the Christian to know evil, so they may understand it? That is not what scripture exhorts us to do... :shame

In the biblical account of the Fall we are told that Satan promised Eve that she would become as God, knowing good from evil, if she ate the fruit from the forbidden tree. What exactly did Eve understand by that promise of the Devil?

Though Satan's words were literally true, it meant something very different from what he promised. God knows evil only to hate it. He does not know evil "experientially". Innocent humanity could only know about evil by being able to participate it in. But this discovery would cause their ultimate demise. :verysad


sheshisown~
 
sheshisown said:
Movies, like art, are almost never meant as mere entertainment. There is pretty much always a message being given, whether implicitly or explicitly. Changes in societal beliefs and attitudes almost always happen first in art. For more on the matter I suggest reading something by Francis Schaeffer.

Thank you for the sense you provide in this discussion Free~ :thumb

[quote:2zb4gc02]As evangelical Christians, we have tended to relegate art to the very fringe of life. The rest of human life we feel is more important. Despite our constant talk about the Lordship of Christ, we have narrowed its scope to a very small area of reality. We have misunderstood the concept of the Lordship of Christ over the whole of man and the whole of the universe and have not taken to us the riches that the Bible gives us for ourselves, for our lives, and for our culture.

Christianity is not just "dogmatically" true or "doctrinally" true. Rather, it is true to what is there, true in the whole area of the whole man in all of life.

We do not seem to understand that the arts too are supposed to be under the Lordship of Christ.

These quotes are from Francis Schaeffer... :chin

My references to child abuse were aimed at the Avatars used in games by men and teens playing on the net. . . And I actually did read many reviews of this movie, including watching a commentary by the creators before I started this thread. How can I see a movie I am morally against seeing? Would you ask the Christian to know evil, so they may understand it? That is not what scripture exhorts us to do... :shame

In the biblical account of the Fall we are told that Satan promised Eve that she would become as God, knowing good from evil, if she ate the fruit from the forbidden tree. What exactly did Eve understand by that promise of the Devil?

Though Satan's words were literally true, it meant something very different from what he promised. God knows evil only to hate it. He does not know evil "experientially". Innocent humanity could only know about evil by being able to participate it in. But this discovery would cause their ultimate demise. :verysad


sheshisown~
[/quote:2zb4gc02]

So, let me get this straight...this movie is now "evil"? Really? Come on now folks. This is just downright absurd.
 
Sheshisown

I was starting to feel some sympathy for you. So I decided to go back and read some things you said prior to making this thread. You said this in relation to 2012 on July 15, 2009, ““I happen to like disaster flicks (partly cause I like action/mysterious/adventure films) and partly because I hope they DO provoke people to think about their life.â€â€

I reread that review you posted by Kidology.com. They misrepresented the movie something fierce. I have to wonder if they actually watched that movie at all. I hate it when Christians do that kind of thing because it just fuels the fire that the Atheists are right.

I’ve got your number lady. I have no sympathy for you anymore. You are putting up a smoke screen on the Avatar thread. I hope that anyone with any sense is not listening to you. I don’t know what is really bothering you, but it obviously hasn’t got anything to do with this movie, since you never even bothered to watch it. Reading biased reviews and watching a commentary by the creators, who certainly did not present the bias that the review you quoted did, is nothing like seeing the movie itself. And without that experience, you have nothing of value to say. To put it bluntly, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Avatar “is†a disaster movie. It just happens to be from the perspective of the Na’vi, rather than from the perspective of humans. In this movie, it is the humans who are causing the disaster. Thanks to the humans, two humans in particular who happen to be in authority, the Na’vi are about to lose their whole way of life. A simple lifestyle that is in harmony with their surroundings and with the planet. One of the humans comes to believe that this is wrong and decides to help defend them. In the process he helps to avert the disaster. Is that against Christian morality?

I said it before, and I’ll say it again. Avatar is a great movie. It is science fiction, with the emphasis on fiction. There is no such people as the Na’vi. It is not intended to promote the thinking of a particular religion or philosophy. It is just a story. It is not even a myth. But it does obviously includes some of the concerns of its creators. Such as the tendency for corporations to be uncaring, and that there should be more concern for the safety of our planet as a haven for life. Is that against Christian morality?

It presents the Na’vi as forest people who have a unique bond with their surroundings. As I said in my last post, they do not worship their surroundings, they are one with it. That is made perfectly clear. If you think that those things are immoral, the problem is all yours. This movie presents a very positive morality. And I don’t think that that morality is that far from Christian morality. And the good guys win in spite of the odds being greatly against them. Is that against Christian morality?

“Many moons ago white man come to our land. Kill our women. Rape our buffaloâ€. Many of the American Indians had a unique bond with the land also, until the white man came. Unfortunately, they didn’t have Cameron to write their story.

Yes, Avatar has used ideas from other stories. But that is not the point. The point is that this particular story has been told and acted very well. And the special effects are spectacular. I’m an old country boy, and the planet Pandora is beautiful to me. And yes it is pretty black and white as to who the bad guys are and who the good guys are. And it becomes apparent almost immediately. But it is also a story of how one individual who at first sided with the bad guys came to change his mind. And while the morality of many of the humans was negative, that was not true of all of the humans. And that is why it is popular. And the fact that it is popular shows that a movie with a positive morality, even if it is not entirely Christian, is still enjoyed by the general population of America. Personally, I find that encouraging. There is nothing that is explicitly anti-Christian in this movie. There is no stupid Christian in this movie. In fact there are no Christians portrayed in this movie at all. Nor is any other major religion represented. Probably that is on purpose. They are just people. Does this movie contain aspects that are against the sensibilities of some Christians. No doubt. There is some swearing. The two main characters fall in love. And for some reason that is against the sensibilities of some Christians. But so do all movies. Even Christian movies. Christians live in this world. And even Christian stories have to have something in them that is about the world that the characters live in. They would be unrealistic if they didn’t. Avatar obviously reflects the current morality and the moral concerns of the culture. It would come off as preachy if it didn’t.

I understand that a sequel is already in the works because the movie was so popular. Sequels are notorious for being inferior to the original. But when it comes out, I will see that for myself. And I won’t judge the value of the sequel until after I have watched it.

It has been implied that movies affect the morality of the culture. That is a myth. They only reflect the morality of the culture. And the morality of the culture changes on its own. The gays are pushing so hard for their agenda right now, and that has been a mistake for them. Many who were formerly on their side are now changing their minds. Can fool some of the people some of the time… The movie industry is out to make money. And the fear of monetary loss does not allow it to be innovative enough to affect the culture. Yes, it is unfortunate that there are some movies being made today that are just plain gross. But notice that none of those movies are even close to being as popular as Star Wars and Avatar, or Independence Day, one that you said that you liked. The majority of movie watchers know a good movie when they see one. That too is encouraging to me.

Avatar is a great movie. Go watch it before you comment any more about it. Get some experience to back up your claims. If you like disaster movies like you say, then Avatar is a great disaster movie, at least from the point of view of the Na’vi.

JamesG
 
Worshipping nature is onld satanic ploy, spare me!!! You know why Christians labeled pagans as Satanist, it's becasue of the churches in which the pagans built, simple circles or squares. They didn't have the ornamental aspect of divinity and was therefore persecuted.

In case you forgot this Earth is gods church, I know cause the geometry found in nature is found in every church in the world.
 
:waving
JamesG~

Your response sounds like an ad for the movie... but although this film has grossed $800 million worldwide ~popularity has never been a test for authenticity or goodness rather the reverse is more often true. Also, the film maker seems to have made a movie that would appeal to the greatest number of people. :chin It is very telling that what is appealing to so many is so un-apologetically religious. :nod

Avatar is more than a disaster movie~ it is a slam at the "evil corporate nature-rapists"... using both an ethical and an emotional appeal to rally us to "protect our planet." Yet for a Christian~ this planet is not our home, we only journey here for a season, we are pilgrims, on our way to a heavenly kingdom with foundations. Certainly, we should act responsibly in our use of earth' resources, that is not even an arguable fact. While we live here temporarily it is wise, that we ought to consider our children' and grand-children' future is obvious. :shrug

Yet this "green message" is only a disguise to propagate other "evil lies." Yes, I said evil.

Let's look at the movie logically and morally.

The hero of this movie~ Jake, inevitably goes native and embraces the eco-faith of the planet Pandora’s Na’Vi inhabitants and their tree goddess, the “all mother,†and then rallies the Pandoran natives against these evil forces. A military dude goes vigilante and fights his own people, rebelling against his authority figures, because they are "evil." Who is making who evil here? :shrug

Okay ~ maybe we are not supposed to SEE that "worshiping the creation" is evil... Or we are not supposed to make the logical connection to the popular "mother goddess" of the New Age religion so prevalent today either... Maybe we are supposed to ignore the rebellious call to fight to "save our planet."

But the earth will not survive the Day of the Lord~ it "will melt with a fervent heat." It will "pass away." What does the Bible say will happen to this planet?

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. Revelation 21:1

What about the spiritual religion of this movie? I have to admit I was like the rest of American culture in my first recognition of the word Avatar coming from the computer "world" as the symbol that represents the user. But~ the longest standing use of the word Avatar comes from Hinduism.

In Hinduism, an Avatar is a manifest deity in human form. :crazy In the Bhagavad Gita, a key Hindu text, Krishna is the Avatar of Vishnu (a god) notably not THE Self Existent God...of the Bible. In this religious creed, Krishna has both a human form and the consciousness of a god. Does this sound familiar to Jesus Christ~ the God/Man at all? All cults merely "copy" the wondrous things of God ~ "there is nothing new under the sun."

Further, Krishna is depicted as blue. The movie's Na'Vi are blue too~ Hmmm, so…why blue? Why are the Na'Vi, "the good guys" in the film, blue? What does it mean for the Earthling, the film's hero, to become a blue Na'Vi or a blue man? Does this sound familiar? The New Age religion purports the lie that humanity may "become gods" ... :o Yet it ought to be obvious that no person lives a sinless life.

So~ tell me that again, how can a corrupt human become a god? :rolling

Here are some more facts about Hinduism... In Hinduism, persons with a depth a character and the capacity to defeat evil are blue-skinned. This film maker has given ( the sky, oceans, rivers, and lakes "nature" a maximum blue tint. Each deity who has the qualities of bravery and the ability to deal with difficult situations is represented as blue colored in Hinduism. Krishna <according to the fallacious texts of Hinduism> spent his life protecting humanity and destroying evil, therefore he is colored blue...

Gosh~ that sounds just like Jake... who is shown by the "most spiritual of the Na'Vi" the mother of Neytiri, that he is arrogant and full of pride. But his GREAT heart is enough to ensure that his pride could be cured. Human pride of conquest and Na’Vi humility are central to the plot of Avatar and central to the RELIGION of Hinduism! :crazy This is a key tenet to healthy spiritually life according to this religion... the ability to learn. Which ALSO reflect Humanism and New Age doctrines.

But the Bible has something quite different to say about the human heart ~
Jeremiah 17:9 says; The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it? No human heart is good~ No human can rescue another~ there is only One Who rescues. We humans attempt to remold ourselves and each other~ But only Christ REDEEMS!

Yes and evil film. A deceptive cruel fantasy~ created to inflame the evil imaginations of humanity. Set to move us like pawns into positions of hatred and war against one another. Meant to pit common people against monster corporations and politics and governments.

To divide humanity by hatred and lust and then to conquer our souls.

Be careful little eyes what you watch
Be careful little ears what you hear
For we must enter the heavenly kingdom as children~ :heart

sheshisown~
 
i think that he is aware of that. if you want to we cant rip any secular thing apart and decide we dont need to be involved in it.

i told a fellow christain that by going to disney he was supporting satan! he knew of the disney support of gay rights and i told him that disney owns some of the porn movies and sells them. but i was saying that in a joke.

you see we can totally isolate ourselves from the world too much and not be able to witness to the lost.
 
Ok, my dad just went and saw Avatar (some of you may remember him) and he loved it. An excellent piece of entertainment, he said.

I'm not denying that it has a deeper meaning, but I"m saying that there doesn't mean that we shouldn't watch it.

Jason did bring up a good point - how far are we going to go with this secular stuff? Seriously, as the whole world is secular. Are we going to become like the Amish?
 
JamesG~

No, I did not go to see it, I did some more research. If you take a look at these websites of books and that are selling to promote different aspects of the movie you can learn more yourself.

http://www.thaiexotictreasures.com/avatars.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(2009_film)#Themes_and_inspirations

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499549/faq

http://www.amazon.com/Avatar-Confidential-Biological-History-Camerons/dp/0061896756

The net is quite useful when we take advantage of the resources there... I do not have to see a movie to find out about its theme and origins and then make estimations about its intentions. In this world much is geared toward influencing the masses... Take care. :shades

sheshisown~
 
Back
Top