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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Baptized by Holy Spirit
- Thread starter shad
- Start date
When I was attending tongue speaking church (Assembly of God), they did not say I was not saved. They asked me if I am baptized by Holy Spirit, meaning if I speak in tongue. I don't know why they asked me this question.
They urged me to ask God to give me the gift of speaking in tongue. I asked all night with them some wednesday night to give me the gift, but God did not give me. I was still a new believer so I did not know what was going on.
BTW, they are not oneness, most tongue speaking churches are trinitarian.
They urged me to ask God to give me the gift of speaking in tongue. I asked all night with them some wednesday night to give me the gift, but God did not give me. I was still a new believer so I did not know what was going on.
BTW, they are not oneness, most tongue speaking churches are trinitarian.
Speaking in tongues is not a sign of salvation.Our fruit are.
But speaking in tongues is mentioned in Acts, whenever somebody were baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Act 8:18 Now when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, Act 8:19 saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay my hands, he may receive the Holy Spirit.
Simon SAW that something happened when they laid hands on them and he also wanted to have that ability. He saw something, that was not so before they laid hands on them. There was a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. The Bible tells us it is the speaking in tongues and prophesying.
Here they were amazed , because they heard the Gentiles speaking in tongues after the Holy Spirit fell on them.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them that heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision that believed were amazed, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Again here:
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, even as on us at the beginning. (Meaning the same thing happened, they too spoke in tongues )
The baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues have been taught in so many ways, that the church is in such confusion today about it. Many think this is not for today.
For those who desire this, you have to go before the Lord and loose your traditions first. Be open to Him. Its not a scary thing, its a very gentle gift and it does not "take you over" . The Lord does want not embarrass you, He loves you. Its not the Holy Spirit that is making the words that you pray, it is your own spirit that is causing the words. Paul says " MY spirit prays" Its a GIFT that enables your own spirit to pray in words that just come up in you.It does not come from your mind.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
His own spirit prays, but his understanding (his mind) is not involved in this process.
Let me say: If you have prayed and asked God to baptize you in the Holy Spirit, and you are in faith, that God has heard your prayer, you do already have the ability of speaking in tongues. We just suppress it, because we think it is not the "right thing" we have. But it is.
C
But speaking in tongues is mentioned in Acts, whenever somebody were baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Act 8:18 Now when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, Act 8:19 saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay my hands, he may receive the Holy Spirit.
Simon SAW that something happened when they laid hands on them and he also wanted to have that ability. He saw something, that was not so before they laid hands on them. There was a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. The Bible tells us it is the speaking in tongues and prophesying.
Here they were amazed , because they heard the Gentiles speaking in tongues after the Holy Spirit fell on them.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them that heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision that believed were amazed, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Again here:
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, even as on us at the beginning. (Meaning the same thing happened, they too spoke in tongues )
The baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues have been taught in so many ways, that the church is in such confusion today about it. Many think this is not for today.
For those who desire this, you have to go before the Lord and loose your traditions first. Be open to Him. Its not a scary thing, its a very gentle gift and it does not "take you over" . The Lord does want not embarrass you, He loves you. Its not the Holy Spirit that is making the words that you pray, it is your own spirit that is causing the words. Paul says " MY spirit prays" Its a GIFT that enables your own spirit to pray in words that just come up in you.It does not come from your mind.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
His own spirit prays, but his understanding (his mind) is not involved in this process.
Let me say: If you have prayed and asked God to baptize you in the Holy Spirit, and you are in faith, that God has heard your prayer, you do already have the ability of speaking in tongues. We just suppress it, because we think it is not the "right thing" we have. But it is.
C
shad said:
They just taught you wrong.(Their intentions were good, but their method was not Scriptural ) We should not seek the gift (tongues) but the gift of the Holy Spirit. Tongues automatically comes with the Holy Spirit. They should have been more Biblical in their teaching and just laid hands on you. God would have done the rest.
If they did lay hands on you and prayed for the Holy Spirit, you can open your mouth right now and speak in tongues. If you doubt, you will not be able to, because without faith , you cannot please God. Doubt that God indeed baptized you in the Holy Spirit, will stop it 100%
your brother
C
Cornelius said:
C,
Your reasoning is exactly the same as those who speak in tongues. I wholeheartedly disagree with you after studying and have being serving God since I became believer. You seem to interpret the Bible literally just about everything. Receiving the Holy Sprit does not manifest only in speaking in tongues. You speak from experinces and so do I. I don't speack in tongue but I have confidence that Holy Spirit lives in me.
Jesus spoke in parables in many of His accounts. Do you take them all literally too. Jesus says to pluck your eye if your eye tempt you to sin. Do you pluck your eye if you are tempted to sin?
shad said:
I do not take everything literally, because we can see when something is
1) A Parable (Jesus taught in parables)(not literal)
2) A Prophetic image (Revelation /Daniel /and the major prophet books) (Not literal )
3) Literal : history (Acts) and the letters to the churches mostly have advice, and teaching on how to behave , love, submit, have faith, walk in the light, forgive, and many other subjects. A little prophecy is also there, when speaking about the end and what will happen, but it does not use prophetic language like Revelation. The letters literally tell you what is going to happen. Ex: we shall be changed in a twinkling of an eye, means just that.
The Holy Spirit history in Acts is literal. Paul's teaching is literal when he is speaking about speaking in tongues.He uses no imagery, he speaks plainly.
Acts is a literal book, and simply recorded what happened when the Holy Spirit came upon believers. I have not added anything to what the Bible teaches.
C
I am only giving you Scripture and then I can tell you that my experience lines us with those scriptures.shad said:
I am not ever going to give you my experience and tell you that I value the experience above what the Bible teaches.
You say above, that the Holy Spirit does not manifest only in speaking in tongues. By now you know enough about me, to know that if you brought a scripture to me and say" Look Cornelius, here it says that the Holy Spirit does not manifest in tongues, but in these ways....." Then you know that if I can see that , that scripture indeed says that, I will say: O truly I see that you are correct.
because I want , (just like you ) to follow the Bible only. NOT my experience, nor the experience of another.......ONLY the Word of God.So to be fair: You have to get a scripture that says something like this" "These people were baptized in the Holy Spirit and they............" (but it must have something other than "spoke in tongues"..some other manifestation that you mention in your post above )
in Christ
C
Vic C.
Member
We both know the answer is a resounding NO! I was afraid the topic would go in this direction. We've seen this discussion many, many times here. I'm with you 100 % shad. I won't deny the scripture Cornelius quoted though I will say there is historical context there that needs to be considered. That is why at the beginning I asked this:shad said:
What is a sign and who were signs for, then and now?
Actually, I question it's usefulness today. The tongues of Acts 2 has a purpose; that "tongues" was a known language unknown by the one(s) speaking. It was/is useful when witnessing to someone who speaks a language other than yours, although you do not know their language. That gift surely comes in handy in the missions field. :D
What about this "other" tongues we hear? Is it misunderstood today? I think so. It has it's place, so some say, but it has guidelines and it's a gift that can be easily misused. It's must edify the body; it must also be interpreted.
I heard a story of a man from South Africa who was here on a work exchange program. He found a local church to attend. It was one of those "tongue speaking" churches. He didn't know it though. He thought people were just speaking in the language of their ancestors. So he started to speak and pray in his native, South African language (Zulu). Someone moved closer to him and started to chant and pray also.
When it was over, he (man 1) asked the man (man 2) what it was he was speaking. Man 2 said he was interpreting what he was saying. Man 1 says no you weren't, unless you know Zulu.
Lets see, what else did Paul say about gifts?
1 Cor 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit....
... 1 Cor 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1 Cor 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1 Cor 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1 Cor 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
1 Cor 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1 Cor 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
All have the Spirit of God but not all have the gift of tongues as proof of the Spirit that is within. The Spirit guides us in prayer, among other things. Why do I need to pray in an unknown language when I pray fine in English? Why make prayer so mysterious as to suggest our spirit prays to God separate from our knowing and understanding? How does this help and edify the believer?
I'll ask the question again;
What is a sign and who were signs for, then and now?
Answer that honestly and this issue of tongues will be settled.
stovebolts
Member
Vic said:
Well, if we look at the sign God gave after the flood, it served to remind God...
Genesis 9:14-16 (ASV) And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud, and I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
The sign was for God, that he may remember.
F
follower of Christ
Guest
Speaking in tongues is a gift that SOME get, many dont. Paul even asks the Corinthians 'do ALL speak in tongues' and shows them quite conclusively that tongues is least of gifts and that they ought to desire the better gifts.
Tongues is for a sign, not to those who believe, but to those who dont believe....thus the reason we see the amazement in Acts where tongues happened...it was a SIGN to those who NEEDED a sign to believe. Just as Peter was forced to believe that the gentiles had been included in this covenant when they also spoke in tongues.
As true believers we should have no need to see such a sign.
As someone else said OUR proof is on OUR fruits.
I really need to finish this study, but heres a bit of it.
#2
#3
Tongues is for a sign, not to those who believe, but to those who dont believe....thus the reason we see the amazement in Acts where tongues happened...it was a SIGN to those who NEEDED a sign to believe. Just as Peter was forced to believe that the gentiles had been included in this covenant when they also spoke in tongues.
As true believers we should have no need to see such a sign.
As someone else said OUR proof is on OUR fruits.
I really need to finish this study, but heres a bit of it.
#2
#3
[/quote:jte1oig8]
vic C. said:
I want to say, that I am prepared to do this study in love and do it calmly. I am not in judgment against those who still disagree, I use to do the same. I grew up in a VERY traditional church.But I am only going to stick to Scripture. If I relate an experience it must be scriptural.
Confusion report :
OK, there is confusion because when you read this:We see that the gifts are mentioned: Tongues, faith,miracles, prophecy , discerning of spirits, interpretation of tongues.
If its true that one gift is not for today, then all gifts are not for today: Certainly all Christians would say that they have faith.
So this is obviously not talking about the Holy Spirit not giving faith to all Christians.1 Cor 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. No its not, because it is not talking about believing faith (That we all have a portion of, the Bible teaches) no, its talking about the GIFT of faith. The gift of faith is different, it is pure faith , that comes upon a believer and then dissipates when God has done what needed to be done (But that's a different study)
The same with all the above gifts. They do not operate all the time. They come and they go. People do not prophecy all the time,(But sometimes they prophecy) nor do some Christians perform miracles all the time (but it happens sometimes) We do not walk seeing spirits everywhere, but in some cases God will allow Christians to operate in this gift and they will discern that a person has a certain demon.Same with tongues. The GIFT does not operate all the time in the church, just when God wants it too.
So this section of Scripture is not dealing with the tongues that we are talking about , although they sound the same, the GIFT to minister in tongues has not been given to all. I certainly do not have it, but I speak in tongues. A friend of mine has it, and ministers in church. I know he has that gift, because when he operates in his gift, there is always somebody to interpret.
The Holy Spirit is supernatural and with Him comes supernatural gifts. They are indeed GIFTS, because they only come with the Holy Spirit. We do not have these gifts, without the Holy Spirit.
C
C,
Forgive me for saying this but I have yet not seen anyone with legitimate speaking in tongues. Tongues has to be understandable for unbelievers. I have attended two tongue speaking churches. One is Assembly of God and the other is John Hagee's church. They were all speaking loudly to themseves. I did not see any edifying things.
Everything is biblical even speaking in tongues, but if it is confusing others for what you are doing, you need to stop. We have obligation to be a good witness to the world.
God is giving everyone different kind of gift, why so many people claiming to speaking in tongues in the same congregations???
Forgive me for saying this but I have yet not seen anyone with legitimate speaking in tongues. Tongues has to be understandable for unbelievers. I have attended two tongue speaking churches. One is Assembly of God and the other is John Hagee's church. They were all speaking loudly to themseves. I did not see any edifying things.
Everything is biblical even speaking in tongues, but if it is confusing others for what you are doing, you need to stop. We have obligation to be a good witness to the world.
God is giving everyone different kind of gift, why so many people claiming to speaking in tongues in the same congregations???
shad said:
I agree that we are not all to speak in tongues in public. Those who do , need to have somebody that has a gift of interpretation. Notice that it needs a GIFT, to interpret. So not always do people speak in a known language.
The Bible tells us we speak in two kinds of tongues when we speak.
1) of men (Known )
2) of angels (Unknown )
1Co 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal.
You have to understand that speaking or praying in tongues is not the same as the GIFT of tongues.
I do not have the gift of tongues, but I pray in tongues. I never speak in tongues in public.
I will show you this in Scripture. That is why people are so confused. They read that not all have the gift of tongues (true) and then they do not understand why people claim to pray in tongues.
One is a message from God, and the other is a prayer to God. One (the gift) needs to be interpreted , the other is just prayed and not interpreted.
People use this to prove that is has passed away. But they fail to notice that it is not the prophecy (or in their argument: tongues" ) that will pass away, but the "IN PART" will make for that which is PERFECT. When Jesus manifests in us, we will not be prophesying "in part". because what we speak will then be "in full" or "perfect" So prophecy will be perfect, because the "in part" will be gone and replaced by perfection.
None of the gifts will be done away with, they will only then be perfect. (Now we only prophecy "in part" , this means, that God is saying, that when somebody prophesy in church, it will not be 100% perfect. We are also told, that we must judge it (not throw it out and stone the brother, who is prophesying in part. Just judge it to see if he is in line with Scripture. Also if it does not come to pass, we judge it as not from the Lord. We still do not throw the brother out.) )
1Co 13:8 Love never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall be done away; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall be done away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part;
1Co 13:10 but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things.
I know it says that it shall be "done away with" but we have to be fair when we read this and admit that Paul says this will happen when....................1Co 13:10 .... when that which is perfect is come,
Now that has not happened yet. Rom 8 says that the whole creation is still waiting for the revelation of the sons of God . So we know that Jesus has not yet manifested in us fully. So then add this to my previous post and you will understand that it does not say that the gifts will just disappear .
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part;
1Co 13:10 but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things.
I know it says that it shall be "done away with" but we have to be fair when we read this and admit that Paul says this will happen when....................1Co 13:10 .... when that which is perfect is come,
Now that has not happened yet. Rom 8 says that the whole creation is still waiting for the revelation of the sons of God . So we know that Jesus has not yet manifested in us fully. So then add this to my previous post and you will understand that it does not say that the gifts will just disappear .