Baptized by Holy Spirit

[Bick]

There are many christians believe that if you don't speak in "tongue", you are not baptized by Holy Spirit.

Do you believe this is Biblical?

Thank you

MY COMMENTS: The first thing the "tongues people" do is misunderstand and misquote the Scriptures.

The correct rendering for a number of scriptures should be "baptize in water'" and "baptize in the Holy Spirit." NOT "with" or 'by". Please verify this by a concordance.

So, what happened at Pentecost was Christ baptizing (immersing) Peter and the others in the Holy Spirit and [in] fire. Quote Matthew 3:11. See also Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33, Acts 1:5

"I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and [in] fire:" ASV.

It would seem that another study would be acceptable, that is, the functions of the Holy Spirit.
For instance: baptized in HS, HS comes upon you, filled with HS, gift of the HS, full of HS,
power of the HS, believers indwelt by the HS, sealed with the HS, etc.

 

[shad]

MY COMMENTS: The first thing the "tongues people" do is misunderstand and misquote the Scriptures.

The correct rendering for a number of scriptures should be "baptize in water'" and "baptize in the Holy Spirit." NOT "with" or 'by". Please verify this by a concordance.

So, what happened at Pentecost was Christ baptizing (immersing) Peter and the others in the Holy Spirit and [in] fire. Quote Matthew 3:11. See also Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33, Acts 1:5

"I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and [in] fire:" ASV.

It would seem that another study would be acceptable, that is, the functions of the Holy Spirit.
For instance: baptized in HS, HS comes upon you, filled with HS, gift of the HS, full of HS,
power of the HS, believers indwelt by the HS, sealed with the HS, etc.

I believe gift of Holy Spirit is given to those who are wholeheartedly loving God and Jesus with their action, and I don't belive it is necessarity speaking in tongue at all. What happend in Acts is just one of them.

 

[Free]

Free, do you speak in tongues?

Whether I do or not is irrelevant.

How can you say my logic is faulty?

You said: "there are tons and tons of disgracing practices by speaking in tongue churches. His followers' main responsiblity is giving good witness to the world. It is not so hard to figure out what they are practicing is not of God."

Not only is that a generalization, you are concluding that speaking in tongues is false because of other bad fruit, whether real or perceived. That is an error in logic. I have already pointed this out.

 

[shad]

Whether I do or not is irrelevant.

I can discern better whether your points are credible or not by knowing that.

Not only is that a generalization, you are concluding that speaking in tongues is false because of other bad fruit, whether real or perceived. That is an error in logic. I have already pointed this out.

I am only taking heed of Jesus' warnings, I value them and strive to put into practice everything I do. "we know by our fruit if we are of God or not."

 

[Free]

I can discern better whether your points are credible or not by knowing that.

Whether or not myself or anyone else speaks in tongues has nothing to do with the credibility of the arguments being made.

I am only taking heed of Jesus' warnings, I value them and strive to put into practice everything I do. "we know by our fruit if we are of God or not."

And I agree with what Jesus has said. However, your error is in equating bad fruit with speaking in tongues. As I stated earlier, using the same logic I can prove Christianity itself to be false.

 

[shad]

Whether or not myself or anyone else speaks in tongues has nothing to do with the credibility of the arguments being made.

Just about everyone can build up the doctrine using the Scripture. That's why we have to see who is talking and who they are associating with, IMHO. We are whom we associate with.

And I agree with what Jesus has said. However, your error is in equating bad fruit with speaking in tongues. As I stated earlier, using the same logic I can prove Christianity itself to be false.

Ok, it is your prerogative.

 

[Imagican]

If you will read 'carefully' here, you will find that you ARE mistaken concerning 'that which is PERFECT'. I will leave it to YOU to discern the truth of such:

1I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

2With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

notice here that there is NO mention of 'gifts' OTHER than that we are to covet MOST.

12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

When we read this we find; 'that which is perfect' is DEFINED without denial except by those that have 'bought into' false teaching.

The definition is a simple FOUR LETTER WORD. Can you GUESS which one it is?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Tomlane]

I thought the definition of perfect was mature since Paul mentions no longer being children. i"m looking forward to see what your four letter word is.

Dead? lol just kidding.

Tomlane

 

[LostSoul]

I thought the definition of perfect was mature since Paul mentions no longer being children. i"m looking forward to see what your four letter word is.

Dead? lol just kidding.

Tomlane

Tomlane,

According to scripture, though I could be mistaken we ARE to have childlike faith. Christ Jesus actually encouraged us to be more like them in our walk. So it is possible perhaps to take on a different view besides your own maybe?

(Mark 10:13-16 NASB) 13 ¶ And they were bringing children to Him so that He might touch them; and the disciples rebuked them. 14 But when Jesus saw this, He was indignant. Jesus was greatly displeased. The disciples told people not to bring their children to Jesus – they probably thought, "Oh, Jesus has more important things to do than to spend time with children." He was indignant and said to them, "Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 "Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it at all." 16 And He took them in His arms and began blessing them, laying His hands upon them.

Please also keep in mind that there is a rule in regards as to how you speak of or to other members here at the boards. Let us keep this topic clean okay?

May God Bless You

Danielle

 

[Tomlane]

Danielle, you better read again what scriptures Imagican was writing about what it is saying. Just because the scriptures you were referring about because they had the word children in them doesn't mean Paul was referring to your verses Do you know what book and chapter Mec referred to?

Tomlane

 

[LostSoul]

Danielle, you better read again what scriptures Imagican was writing about what it is saying. Just because the scriptures you were referring about because they had the word children in them doesn't mean Paul was referring to your verses Do you know what book and chapter Mec referred to?

Tomlane

Tomlane,

Each of us understands scripture differently. No, this may not necessarily make any one person's interpretation correct. That is why we need to look to God in prayer when it comes to these things and pray that He can guide our hearts and minds.

From what I have come to read and understand of Imagican's post is that he/she believes that Love defines perfection, which is not necessarily wrong. Then there are some things in which God alone knows, for there is not one of us that walks this earth that knows all.

As I have said before though and will say again please keep in mind that there is a rule in regards as to how you speak of or to other members here at the boards. For some of the jokes and things you insinuate can be found more than a little offensive. These boards are meant for us to engage in polite conversation, even when we cannot necessarily see eye to eye. Mind you none of us is perfect, so there can and may be a few heated discussions. Nonetheless, it is something we all should try to avoid, no? For we need not have division amongst us to the point where all fellowship and praise is lost, right?

May God Bless You

Danielle

 

[Tomlane]

Losttlamb, if you feel fair is fair why don't you tell that to those publicly as you have me who tell me I'm ignorant and a waste of time and don't even give Scripture with their replies or is this a prejudiced site?

Psalms 40:4  Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.

Tomlane

 

[LostSoul]

Losttlamb, if you feel fair is fair why don't you tell that to those publicly as you have me who tell me I'm ignorant and a waste of time and don't even give Scripture with their replies or is this a prejudiced site?

Psalms 40:4  Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.

Tomlane

Tomlane,

I am sorry if others have ridiculed you in other threads. Please though, I ask one more time, try to be considerate of what you say to other members, myself included.

May God Bless You

 

[Vic C.]

Losttlamb, if you feel fair is fair why don't you tell that to those publicly as you have me who tell me I'm ignorant and a waste of time and don't even give Scripture with their replies or is this a prejudiced site?

Psalms 40:4  Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.

Tomlane

If I may interject:

If there are insults that don't quite stand out or that you believe are unwarranted, gather them up and PM them to a Staff member. Thanks

The lack of or the inclusion of scripture doesn't always validate a post or it's point. One can post scripture and still be way off doctrinally. One can omit scripture but their beliefs still line up with the basic tenants of the Christian, Biblical beliefs.

This site prejudiced? Yes, we restrict a couple of subjects that have a history here of being extremely volatile, but more times than not, we "tolerate" some very unorthodox views; views that some throughout history would be deemed heretical.

The unbridled tongue has the capacity to bring out the worse in all of us.

 

[francisdesales]

This site prejudiced? Yes, we restrict a couple of subjects that have a history here of being extremely volatile

I wonder what you are talking about???

{Cue evil laugh..}.

Mooo-whooo-haaahaaa!!!



:biglaugh

Regards

 

[Vic C.]

:biglol

:toofunny

Universal Reconciliation is one of them... :yes

 

[Imagican]

I didn't realize that I was being so 'cryptic'. Danielle, Tom wasn't attacking me, I believe he was attempting to insert a 'bit of humor'.

Since it seems to be a mystery, I'll offer it as plainly as it IS in scripture: The 'four letter word is LOVE.

All that one NEED do is read what is offered and it becomes apparent.

EVERYTHING that has EVER been offered in scripture, in prophet, in Christ Himself was for ONE PURPOSE. That purpose is for US, (mankind), to come to a PERFECT understanding of LOVE. And folks, this CAN be DONE.

While we will NEVER be able, so long as the flesh exists, to be PERFECT in our sins, that does NOT take away a 'perfect understanding of LOVE'.

While many would offer that the offering is refering to the 'return of Christ', the ONLY reason that they 'come to this conclusion' is for the LACK of understanding of LOVE. Just as the Jews have been unable to understand throughout the years, so too are many others.

My proof:

Christ was asked concerning the MOST important commandment. He offered that we are to love God with all our heart, mind and soul. He continued with the second commandment that we are to love our neighbors AS ourselves. He doesn't stop there but goes on to offer that 'All the law and all the prophets HANG ON THESE TWO'.

"That is an OUTRIGHT statement that EVERYTHING that has been offered through Word or even Christ HIMSELF was offered for ONE PURPOSE. The law, those that were used by God to communicate between Himself and mankind, ALL OF IT was to teach LOVE: Love God and Love each other.

The world is ONLY able to understand IT'S definition of love. God's love is pure and true. We were 'created' with the capacity to UNDERSTAND His Love. But so far on most of his creation, the understanding has been MOSTLY misunderstood.

But, once one is ABLE to come to a COMPLETE understanding OF His LOVE, then and ONLY then will they be able to come into the perfection that is offered up in scripture. The example was offered, once ingrained in one's heart through the Holy Spirit, THEN we have grown into that 'perfect man' that we have been promised we CAN BE.

I've tried to offer this on numerous occasion in the past. But so long as there are those that TOTALLY rely upon such instruction as 'Mathew Henry' and such, there is little means of acceptance of the truth.

Our ENTIRE purpose is to learn to LOVE as we have been LOVED by God. True love which the world is utterly BLIND to.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Let me add:

ALL men are inherently BORN with a 'base' understanding of 'self love'. We ALL have a tendency to LOVE that which benefits us. This is 'self love'.

What we have been offered is a chance to go beyond such a rudimentary understanding to that which is contained within our Heavenly Father. ALL that He has offered has been offered out of TRUE LOVE and this love IS able to be understood BY us.

So that when we ARE able to come to a true understanding of it, then that which has been offered to GUIDE us, (in part), shall cease.

When we are ABLE to come to the truth in love then at this point we become MEN instead of 'babes', having GROWN INTO that which has been offered from the FIRST.

I know that this is a difficult concept for MANY to grasp. Having been led in different directions by those that 'claim' a deeper understanding. In the future, when you read, take this concept into consideration and it will THEN become evident by that which is offered.

God loves us folks. Even though we are unworthy of His love from OUR standards. Loves us enough to have sent His 'only Begotten' to die for us. Only when we are able to UNDERSTAND this 'kind of love' are we able to 'grow up' and put aside those rudiments the exist in this world.

Once able to understand, then and ONLY then are we able to return that which has been so graciously given. Only then are we able to truly 'grow up' in Christ and develope the relationship that we were designed for.

Use King David as an example. One that was most definitely of the flesh but LEARNED to love God AS HIS FATHER. NEVER allowing his love to disolve no matter what punishments he was forced to endure. ALWAYS recognizing his Father and ALWAYS willling to maintain the relationship REGARDLESS of the frailty of his flesh.

Recognizing this is paramont to GROWTH. And growth is what we have been TOLD to obtain.

Blessings,

MEC