Been there, done that

[Runner]

I would say that my interest/fascination as well as the interest in others I have noticed as to mystery of your particular beliefs is due in large part to your issuing of statements which assail the Christianity of others being based in such things as" fear" or "mental illness".
Assaults issued void of any specific facts, as is your well established custom.

Well, if someone takes the position that the use of the very minds and senses with which God has blessed us is somehow un-Christian or contrary to faith, I can only attribute this to fear or at least deep insecurity. It's certainly unbiblical in the extreme.

If someone (for example) takes the position that the creation is less than 10,000 years old, in the face of scientific certainty from every relevant scientific discipline, making use of the very minds and senses with which God has blessed us to investigate a creation that is uncannily suited to such investigation - well, yes, to me that person is either pretending or has some mental issues.

You are free to disagree, Consecrated Life.

Quite a contradiction for rock ribbed adherent of epistemology such as yourself, by the way
That coupled with the depressive perfume of your own vague non-specific testimony of dissatisfaction and lack of confidence with Christ and His Word is at the heart of the interest in what is really behind this barren pall that cloaks your every thread & post .

I've pointed out previously that you continually skate on the edge of the Terms of Service. I never report any post directed at me because I'm a big boy and kind of enjoy watching people reveal who they really are, but there are participants who might think phrases such as "the depressive perfume of your own vague non-specific testimony of dissatisfaction and lack of confidence with Christ and His Word" was over the edge.

Whatever horse you're beating here, I think it died a long time ago. I'm confident most people can see that.

If you find that a "barren pall" cloaks my "every thread & post," put me on Ignore. There, wasn't that easy?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Here ya go: "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." I believe that quite literally and find it comforting and encouraging.

Happy now?

I didn't think so.

Well done .
I do sense how difficult it is for you to acknowledge with 100% epistemological certainty that all stuff is God created.
Even the stuff we don't believe.

" Whose voice then shook the earth....that those things which cannot be shaken may remain."
( Hebrews 12: 26-27 )

 

[Runner]

Well done .
I do sense how difficult it is for you to acknowledge with 100% epistemological certainty that all stuff is God created.
Even the stuff we don't believe.

" Whose voice then shook the earth....that those things which cannot be shaken may remain."
( Hebrews 12: 26-27 )

Wrong again. I said I "believed it quite literally," not that I "acknowledge" it "with 100% epistemological certainty." I know of no Christian philosopher or theologian who claims 100% epistemological certainty that we live in a God-created reality. That belief is obviously foundational for Christianity, but it isn't epistemological certainty by any means.

You're also quite wrong that it is "difficult" for me to believe we live in a God-created reality. It isn't difficult for me at all. I've done my homework, and I hold strong convictions.

Although you keep putting words in my mouth and making snide innuendos that are on the edge of the Terms of Service, I'm finding it sort of a hoot to observe someone who is so oblivious to the fact that he's Exhibit A for so many of the points I've been making. Do carry on.

 

[Consecrated Life]

If someone (for example) takes the position that the creation is less than 10,000 years old, in the face of scientific certainty from every relevant scientific discipline, making use of the very minds and senses with which God has blessed us to investigate a creation that is uncannily suited to such investigation - well, yes, to me that person is either pretending or has some mental issues.

Where ever do you go to encounter such persons?
I've been a Christian for over 30 years, going to church , attending bible studies, Christian lectures , in all my years I have never once encountered someone bent on fixing a number to creation .
In fact I cannot ever remember the subject coming up.
If I ever do meet such a person one day it will be a very short conversation, having 0% impact on my well established beliefs on the things that God considers important for me to be sure of.
I don't know where you go to meet such people, but you ought to quit.
My guess is you would never meet another the rest of your days without seeking them out yourself.
To engage a person obsessed with such things is in my mind akin to engaging a homeless person begging at a traffic intersection and asking them for financial advice.
Maybe that is where you are finding such people?
I'm more convinced than ever that there is much more to your background that has tainted your acquisition of the fully satisfying elements generated by the heaven you acknowledge God created just for you .
You have veered off course by thinking that these elements of secure knowledge are generated by man's feeble calculations rather than the inexhaustible power of He who created " heaven and earth.".
I will continue to pray for you to be stabilized in this regard in your continued pilgrimage and progress , and leave you with this :

To know deep secure satisfaction with God one must "drink from his own cistern" filled by the rains of heaven, & not from another's tainted supply .

 

[Runner]

Where ever do you go to encounter such persons?
I've been a Christian for over 30 years, going to church , attending bible studies, Christian lectures , in all my years I have never once encountered someone bent on fixing a number to creation .
In fact I cannot ever remember the subject coming up.
If I ever do meet such a person one day it will be a very short conversation, having 0% impact on my well established beliefs on the things that God considers important for me to be sure of.
I don't know where you go to meet such people, but you ought to quit.
My guess is you would never meet another the rest of your days without seeking them out yourself.
To engage a person obsessed with such things is in my mind akin to engaging a homeless person begging at a traffic intersection and asking them for financial advice.
Maybe that is where you are finding such people?

You need to get out more. Young Earth Creationism in all its permutations is a major segment of evangelical Christianity. It is a dominant perspective on Christian radio, including sometimes-excellent programs such as The Christian Worldview. Considering that Answers In Genesis posts here regularly, how have you managed to stay oblivious to Ken Ham and his YEC cronies? I encountered my first Young Earth Creationist on the staff of Campus Crusade in 1970, so if you've never encountered one your Christian life must have been led under a rock.

I'm more convinced than ever that there is a much more to your background that has tainted your acquisition of the fully satisfying elements generated by the heaven you acknowledge God created just for you .
You have veered off course by thinking that these elements of secure knowledge are generated by man's feeble calculations rather than the inexhaustible power of He who created " heaven and earth.".
I will continue to pray for you to be stabilized in this regard in your continued pilgrimage and progress , and leave you with this :

To know deep secure satisfaction with God one must "drink from his own cistern" filled by the rains of heaven, & not from another's tainted supply .

I take great comfort in the knowledge that you will be praying for me to be "stabilized," freed of my "taint" and restored to the proper course from which I have "veered." In fact, I'm feeling more stable already.

You're enjoying the attention way too much, so I'm going to once again bid you a fond adieu and suggest you really consider that useful Ignore option.

 

[Consecrated Life]

You need to get out more. Young Earth Creationism in all its permutations is a major segment of evangelical Christianity. It is a dominant perspective on Christian radio, including sometimes-excellent programs such as The Christian Worldview. Considering that Answers In Genesis posts here regularly, how have you managed to stay oblivious to Ken Ham and his YEC cronies? I encountered my first Young Earth Creationist on the staff of Campus Crusade in 1970, so if you've never encountered one your Christian life must have been led under a rock.

If you are continually finding yourself in contact with adherents of such fireless orthodoxies have you ever considered the possibility that is God leading you into such circumstances for His purposes ?
For His purpose of advancing the power of His Word and in the process making you an asset of inestimable value in His plan ?
Imagine that, you rebuking these " evangelical Christians " through the power the scriptures.
Your only question you should ever have for these YEC's is to ask them what verse is it that Jesus in His infinite knowledge emphatically proclaims the life giving Words of:

" Verily , Verily you must know the creation is 10,000 years old" ?

They would have zilch to offer for an answer & the spiritual deadness of such a useless pursuit as it pertains to what Christ Himself has actually charged us to have knowledge of would palpably fill the room / site .
And you could even double down by asking what verse Paul as well also stressed the soul transforming power contained within this mathematical balm for the soul ?
Illuminating the spiritual deadness and irrelevance of the pursuit even further:

" For I determined not to know anything among you
save Jesus Christ and him Crucified."
( 1 Corinthians 2:2 )

 

[jasonc]

I don't necessarily agree with runner as I don't have the whole picture as I think texts or written words ,aren't enough to get the idea.

However ,he is saying we can't test the existence of God . It's by faith we believe .

I do respect the view on the ones raised in church as they naturally don't have that challenge of why is it true.

I relate in that war has forced me to ponder why I am ,why is it so evil,and the vanity in the west ,even in conservative arminism or reformed circles.

I wake up battling bad thoughts ,anger etc .I have had days of not much rest .is my life just work ? Why can't I find peace . Prayer helps ,being in church helps .however ,I am by nature a loner ,civilians confuse me .if I open up they look lost .

 

[Hopeful]

I see your back at this again…

Yes, and thanks for having me again.

If we say we are without sin, we make him a liar…. Those are not my words…

They are the words addressing those who walk in darkness, as opposed to the words addressing those who walk in light.
1 John 1:8..."If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
1 John 1:7..."But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
Your interpretation of verse 8 makes verse 7 (and 9) a lie.
John juxtaposes the one against the other in order to show clearly that one is diametrically opposed to the other.
Paul uses the same writing method in Rom 8, juxtaposing those who walk in the flesh with those who walk in the Spirit.

Runner
Hopeful is our local “if you have sin in your life, your a child of the devil” member. He seems to think that a true Christian is one who cannot sin, which is very unorthodox.

My POV is based on 1 John 3:9-10..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
All men fall into one "camp" or the other.

As I told Mister E , everyone has a voice at the table. Even those we disagree with.

Again, thanks for allowing the POV's return.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I would say that my interest/fascination as well as the interest in others I have noticed as to mystery of your particular beliefs is due in large part to your issuing of statements which assail the Christianity of others being based in such things as" fear" or "mental illness".
Assaults issued void of any specific facts, as is your well established custom.
Quite a contradiction for rock ribbed adherent of epistemology such as yourself, by the way
That coupled with the depressive perfume of your own vague non-specific testimony of dissatisfaction and lack of confidence with Christ and His Word is at the heart of the interest in what is really behind this barren pall that cloaks your every thread & post .

Please stop attacking and baiting Runner. Live the consecrated life focusing on pleasing the Master.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Please stop attacking and baiting Runner. Live the consecrated life focusing on pleasing the Master.

Answering a question that Runner has asked of me is not an "attack" Dorothy, it is commonly known as a reply.
Please start getting a grasp of these basic communication concepts.
Your desire to wet nurse Runner notwithstanding .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Answering a question that Runner has asked of me is not an "attack" Dorothy, it is commonly known as a reply.
Please start getting a grasp of these basic communication concepts.
Your desire to wet nurse Runner notwithstanding .

You cannot see that your questions are baiting him and insulting. What is more, in the body of Christ, it is called loving a brother or sister if you defend them. Runner will tell you that the best defense is when you DO NOT defend yourself. The man who defends himself as a fool for a client. When another defends someone, it is more powerful and more likely to be true as there are TWO who think the one is innocent of the accusation. Defend yourself and you alone think you are right.

 

[Consecrated Life]

You cannot see that your questions are baiting him and insulting.

My Reply is not my question .
My reply is in answer to his question.

Here is a question just for you that I think may help to clear up some of your confusion:
: what year is this ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

My Reply is not my question .
My reply is in answer to his question.

Here is a question just for you that I think may help to clear up some of your confusion:
: what year is this ?

You really do not see that your posts are insulting, do you? That is worse than being insulted. We see. You do not.

 

[Mister E]

I would say that my interest/fascination as well as the interest in others I have noticed as to mystery of your particular beliefs is due in large part to your issuing of statements which assail the Christianity of others being based in such things as" fear" or "mental illness".
Assaults issued void of any specific facts, as is your well established custom.
Quite a contradiction for rock ribbed adherent of epistemology such as yourself, by the way
That coupled with the depressive perfume of your own vague non-specific testimony of dissatisfaction and lack of confidence with Christ and His Word is at the heart of the interest in what is really behind this barren pall that cloaks your every thread & post .

Snide and condescending.

It's become trolling behavior. Move on friend. Save yourself.

 

[Consecrated Life]

You really do not see that your posts are insulting, do you? That is worse than being insulted. We see. You do not.

"If my approach bothers you, if it isn’t welcome on these forums – well, too bad." ( Runner )

My sentiments exactly.

Clearly all the earmarks of some sort of, "mental illness" ( Runner ).

Good lookin out Runner !

 

[Mister E]

"If my approach bothers you, if it isn’t welcome on these forums – well, too bad." ( Runner )

My sentiments exactly.

Clearly all the earmarks of some sort of, "mental illness" ( Runner ).

Good lookin out Runner !

When you quote someone-- use the quote feature. Failing to do so eliminates the context and manipulative people tend to 'snip' words to purposely take them out of context often in an attempt to make it seem as though the person being quoted said something unintended. It's dishonest. It seems to be your MO.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Snide and condescending.

It's become trolling behavior. Move on friend. Save yourself.

"If my approach bothers you, if it isn’t welcome on these forums – well, too bad." ( Runner )

Right on. right on Runner !

All the indications of a sort of " mental Illness" ( Runner ) , indeed .

Good lookin out for these types Runner.

 

[Mister E]

"If my approach bothers you, if it isn’t welcome on these forums – well, too bad." ( Runner )

Right on. right on Runner !

All the indications of a sort of " mental Illness" ( Runner ) , indeed .

Good lookin out for these types Runner.

You have an unhealthy obsession with Runner . You see that don't you?

Everyone else does.

 

[Runner]

You have an unhealthy obsession with Runner . You see that don't you?

Everyone else does.

Too bad he's not a woman. I've never had a woman have an unhealthy obsession with me. It might be fun for awhile. Of course, I guess an unhealthy obsession with my internet persona really wouldn't be all that flattering anyway.

My comment about mental illness could have been phrased better or with added context. There are wonderful Christians who have serious mental health issues.

I was simply saying that some of the ways Christianity is practiced strike me as bizarre to the point of being inexplicable on any other basis. A wooden, literalist reading of Scripture, which forces one to deny the rationality of his own thought processes and the reliability of his own senses, and indeed to deny the best evidence from the best scientists across the entire spectrum of scientific disciplines - well, I don't know how any fully sane person could live in such a state of cognitive dissonance.

But some people do, or at least say they do. To be as charitable as I can, my position isn't "You're mentally ill" but rather "I think you're pretending because you've convinced yourself - or someone else has convinced you - that it pleases God."

To be clear, someone can hold beliefs I regard as comical and still be a far better Christian than I am. Ditto for someone with a very serious mental illness. Ditto for Consecrated Life, for that matter.

Part of the secret to enjoying participation on internet forums is to accept that they are theater of the absurd, a game in which everyone, including yourself, is inevitably role-playing. This doesn't mean everyone is a fraud, or there is no genuine communication, but it's inherently artificial. There is no point in letting "Runner" upset you to the degree he seems to have upset CL. It appears I inadvertently struck some deep nerve, but that certainly wasn't my intention.

 

[Consecrated Life]

You have an unhealthy obsession with Runner . You see that don't you?

Everyone else does.

Clearly all the earmarks of a " mental illness" ( Runner )