Being Perfect

[Alabaster]

I don't rob banks because I don't want to.
I don't want to because I know it is wrong.
I don't make my choice because it is wrong by the letter of our laws.
I don't make my choice because Jesus told me to.
There are a lot of things for which we have no man-made laws against yet I don't do them because they are just plain wrong.

I make my choice because it is wrong in the eyes of God, I love God, and because of my love for Him I want to do my best to abide by His laws.

Abiding by God's laws out of duty alone is of little value. See Luke 17: 7-10.

Now that was a good answer!

 

[Alabaster]

How about "not doing to others what you wouldn't want them doing to you"? That is the main reason to not rob banks.

And, of course, it is a Biblical principle twisted a little. Jesus says it in a positive light:

Matthew 7:12 NLT
Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets.

 

[WIP]

I am in control now, but as you say, I have to deal with my flesh.

I have seen a similar theme repeated on this site on more than one occasion. Don't let yourself fall for Satan's lie that you can do it all on your own so that you may boast. Stay at the foot of the cross.

 

[Deavonreye]

And, of course, it is a Biblical principle twisted a little. Jesus says it in a positive light:

Matthew 7:12 NLT
Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets.

It must illude to both "lights". Do to others, . . . but it must also follow that you shouldn't do negatives to others. If people on this planet followed this simple rule, the world would be a much better place.

 

[Alabaster]

It must illude to both "lights". Do to others, . . . but it must also follow that you shouldn't do negatives to others. If people on this planet followed this simple rule, the world would be a much better place.

It follows that now when people say the bible is a book that gives us a list of 'don'ts', you will remember this.

 

[Deavonreye]

It follows that now when people say the bible is a book that gives us a list of 'don'ts', you will remember this.

No, Alabaster, . . .this has nothing to do with that notion at all. People need to look at others and say. . . "What can I do for them, that I would like being done for me?", . . . and "What should I not do to this person that I wouldn't want someone doing to me?" It is caring about NOT stepping on the rights of others. Rather than the "selfish" notion of "I wouldn't want to go to prison", . . . it transfers the focus onto others. . . "I'm not going to take what belongs to another".

 

[watchman F]

Originally Posted by watchman F
Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

2nd Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Ephesians 5
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Revelation 19
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Whether you like or not Jesus is our Groom, and we His Bride. The qquestion is will you make yourself ready? He is returning for a spotless Bride unblemished equally yoked. Are you a member of this umblemished Bride? Or are you a member of the Whore?

Ephesians 5
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

''Glory'', is accomplishing what God has put us here on Earth to do" What God has created us to do or become is an equally yoked Bride for Christ, and to be equally yoked with Christ we must become perfected, and sinless in every way

The Bible says in in 2nd corinthians 6:14 to not be unequally yoked. Do you think Jesus is returning of an unequally yoke Bride? No, If you are not equally yoked to Christ when He returns you will not be apart of His Bride.

--Elijah here: Lets get this straight. Are your posts teaching that this is the truth, or are they saying that this is the way that the person behind the posting understands what is other than SCRIPTURE, and that you have the truth?

You seem to be calling yourself above & beyond what Paul penned in Phil. 3:12-16?? And if so, please clear this up for us??

What I have posted is the truth of scripture, God's very word. However I have not obtained the resurrection of the just yet, because I am not dead. Only those that have endureduntil the end, only those that have finished their race have obtained the resurrection. So although I may be walking with Christ as of now, like Paul i have yet to obtained the resurrection because I am not yet dead.

Matthew 24
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Hebrews 3
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Here we see Paul stating that he had in effect attained.
2nd Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
Living sinlessly for 1yr or 5 or 10 or 20yrs does not atomatically give us eternal life remaining faith unto our death does. However living sinlessly is commandmeny from God to us. Furthermore God primises us that we are able to keep this command.

 

[Alabaster]

No, Alabaster, . . .this has nothing to do with that notion at all. People need to look at others and say. . . "What can I do for them, that I would like being done for me?", . . . and "What should I not do to this person that I wouldn't want someone doing to me?" It is caring about NOT stepping on the rights of others. Rather than the "selfish" notion of "I wouldn't want to go to prison", . . . it transfers the focus onto others. . . "I'm not going to take what belongs to another".

Right, but my point is made. It is about how to love others. If we are busy loving others, then we don't need to focus on any 'don'ts'.

 

[elijah23]

I have seen a similar theme repeated on this site on more than one occasion. Don't let yourself fall for Satan's lie that you can do it all on your own so that you may boast. Stay at the foot of the cross.

I know I need the Lord’s guidance, but as I sit here at this moment, I must avoid certain thoughts and certain actions.

 

[glorydaz]

alabaster what free is saying is what i'm going through right now. our flesh nature always craves sin. we must deny it that.

and that is part of the walk,aka taking up the cross and paul said mortify the deeds of the flesh.

so a dead thing doesnt fight you but a living thing will when you try to kill it.

i dont look at porn much, but i must really watch what i look at(we have a ton of "calender girls" at work that tempt me,and yes you can see through the so called clothing they have on.

i must daily strive not to look, even though my flesh says, heeyyyyyyyy man chill its not like we going on a date here.

LOL You know what they say....you can't stop the birds from flying through the air, but you can stop them from building a nest in your hair.

 

[jasoncran]

distractions, that should say that i dont look at porn at all!

 

[glorydaz]

This statement is a lack of faith. It is actually the sin Eve commited even before she bit into the forbidden fruit. The sin of believing satan over God. People who say that we are not to make sin a habit, but yet everyone sins, and will not be completely freed from sin until the resurrection. They do not truly believe (have faith in the fact) that the Son can make us free indeed.

It isn't a lack of faith to believe John instead of someone who thinks we can be perfect while we still reside in these corruptable bodies of flesh. All men sin and come short of the glory of God. The problem with believing in sinless perfection while here on earth is that it requires a man to deceive himself. Those around that man are not so easily fooled, however.

How would you explain away these verses that have been quoted more than once in this thread?

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

Verse 8 proves that after our regeneration we still have sin inwardly. Verse 10 proves further that we even still sin outwardly, though not habitually. We still sin outwardly in our conduct because we still have sin inwardly in our nature. John says "we" not excluding himself.

The righteousness of Christ has been imputed to us for this very reason....we can't have sinless perfection on our own. It's the righteousness of Christ that makes us perfect in the sight of God.

"But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;"

 

[Sparkey]

To rightly examine the word written through John we must first agree that: God says what he means and means what he says. We have seen many instances in the Bible where God repeats some truth or subject already given, generally with the addition of details not before given. The Holy Spirit inspired the authors of the scriptural texts, and so the words of those texts convey a divine revelation. Read the entire passage found in the 1st epistle of John. Take what the Holy Spirit wrote along with all Scripture, pray about it, seek revelation. Above all, do not extract a portion of what is being said in order to prove a pre-conceived idea or concept.

• And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
• This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
• If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
• If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
• If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
• If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

[1 John 1:4-10 KJV]

Okay, now let us apply the two interpretations.

1. The first is: "We can not be made perfect"
2. The second is: "We can be made perfect"

And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. [Therefore we can not be perfected]

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. [Therefore we can not be perfected]

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. [Therefore we can not be perfected]

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [Therefore we can not be perfected]

If we say that "we have not sinned", we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. ​

___________________________________________________

There is no need to compare this interpretation with the message of hope that is actually being presented. Instead let's consider the verse found in the next chapter (and we shall remember that there were no "chapter divisions" in the actual text): "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" [1 John 2:1 KJV] Notice that he states, "...and if any man sin we have an advocate..." NOT "and when you do as is inevitable and continue sinning without hope until you die..."

Remember that John is speaking to us as children. His style isn't like that of Paul, [FONT=&quot]But That Does Not Mean That They Disagree With Each Other[/FONT]. Paul wrote about 'running the race' together with the idea of crossing the finish line. That is our hope, the completion of the race.

I will point again to the repetition in the main text (go back an read it again) where John states, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us," but doesn't conclude there. He goes on to state, "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." The principle of repetition is see here where God repeats the truth with the addition of details. There is a reason for this; so we can have a full understanding of what is meant.

I am reminded of what President Ford said in reply to criticism of his Presidential pardon of Nixon.

Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974.

But wasn't Nixon guilty of an impeachable offense? Ford found the unanimous report of the House Judiciary Committee "very persuasive" and conceded that acceptance of a pardon "can be construed ... as an admission of guilt." Did Nixon say that he had no sin? "I am not a crook," is one such famous quote but while in San Clemente in September of 1974 the pardon was accepted.

The Ford Nixon history is illustrative. Those who say, "I have no sin," are liars --not because God can not, or will not perform all His full promise but because they make Him to be a liar. God has rightly declared, "All have sinned..." He also declares, "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not."

Teaching this to mean that we can never stop sinning through the working of the Holy Spirit by the power of the resurrection of our Lord and Savior is also making Him to be a liar.

Little children, rest now. Be at peace. God is on His throne.
~Sparrow

 

[Alabaster]

For those who believe that we can attain perfection by works:

Galatians 3:1-3 Amplified
O YOU poor and silly and thoughtless and unreflecting and senseless Galatians! Who has fascinated or bewitched or cast a spell over you, unto whom--right before your very eyes--Jesus Christ (the Messiah) was openly and graphically set forth and portrayed as crucified? 2Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the [Holy] Spirit as the result of obeying the Law and doing its works, or was it by hearing [the message of the Gospel] and believing [it]? [Was it from observing a law of rituals or from a message of faith?]
3Are you so foolish and so senseless and so silly? Having begun [your new life spiritually] with the [Holy] Spirit, are you now reaching perfection [by dependence] on the flesh?

 

[Sparkey]

For those who believe that we can attain perfection by works:

Galatians 3:1-3 Amplified
O YOU poor and silly and thoughtless and unreflecting and senseless Galatians! Who has fascinated or bewitched or cast a spell over you, unto whom--right before your very eyes--Jesus Christ (the Messiah) was openly and graphically set forth and portrayed as crucified? 2Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the [Holy] Spirit as the result of obeying the Law and doing its works, or was it by hearing [the message of the Gospel] and believing [it]? [Was it from observing a law of rituals or from a message of faith?]
3Are you so foolish and so senseless and so silly? Having begun [your new life spiritually] with the [Holy] Spirit, are you now reaching perfection [by dependence] on the flesh?

Well said, this is "how it will happen". We can not be like Cain thinking that our offering, our 'sacrifice' of works will please God. It is a free gift and the good news of the Gospel that the Son of God, not the servant of the house, delivers to us.

 

[elijah23]

For those who believe that we can attain perfection by works:

Galatians 3:1-3 Amplified
O YOU poor and silly and thoughtless and unreflecting and senseless Galatians! Who has fascinated or bewitched or cast a spell over you, unto whom--right before your very eyes--Jesus Christ (the Messiah) was openly and graphically set forth and portrayed as crucified? 2Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the [Holy] Spirit as the result of obeying the Law and doing its works, or was it by hearing [the message of the Gospel] and believing [it]? [Was it from observing a law of rituals or from a message of faith?]
3Are you so foolish and so senseless and so silly? Having begun [your new life spiritually] with the [Holy] Spirit, are you now reaching perfection [by dependence] on the flesh?

We must resist temptation. That takes effort. We need the Lord’s help, but if we give in to temptation, the consequences are unpleasant. No?

 

[Alabaster]

We must resist temptation.

Yes.

That takes effort. We need the Lord’s help,

Yes.

but if we give in to temptation, the consequences are unpleasant. No?

Right, but we do not lose our position of righteousness with God that we have received by the blood of Jesus by the grace of God.

 

[elijah23]

Yes.



Yes.



Right, but we do not lose our position of righteousness with God that we have received by the blood of Jesus by the grace of God.

But we can suffer immensely if we don’t repent of our sin.

 

[Alabaster]

But we can suffer immensely if we don’t repent of our sin.

Hopefully we have repented if we have received Jesus Christ.

 

[elijah23]

Hopefully we have repented if we have received Jesus Christ.

Hopefully, but I received Jesus long before I repented of several sins I was committing.