Being "Saved," "Born Again," "Confessing Jesus" Does Not Guarantee Heaven.

[reba]

Do I need a note from your mothers that says you have read the Terms of Service for this site? Moderator

http://www.christianforums.net/announcement.php?f=64&a=6 take a minute or 2 please pay attention to this part twice:
2.5: Respect each others' opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself. Not necessarily directed at the last poster.
QUOTE]

Should others in here speak of my mother . . . ?

JoWilli, lets see you don't seem to want to take a light hearted correction.. We can go by the book...
2.5: Respect each others' opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself. Not necessarily directed at the last poster.
Please keep this warning in mind as you post here.... Moderator

 

[JoReba]

But I will say that I do think that if someone consciously stops believing in Jesus, then it's possible that that could be grounds for losing salvation. That's the only case I'd think that's possible, though.

Have you ever met anyone who has done that?

I can think of a couple, I think. I actually know someone from another forum who used to be a Christian, and I knew them during this time. They seemed legit enough, although they did think it was fine to do or say things that other Christians avoid as taboo, such as using profanity. But they still seemed sincere. I've come into contact with them again in recent months, and they are agnostic now.

questdriven:

I do think that if we read John 3, and 1 Peter 1 about the new birth, this new life isn't something that goes away again. It all depends on Him and not us. John 10.28 and John 10.29 are very encouraging and clear.

Admittedly there may be those who have professed falsely. This is in a different category.

Blessings.

Jesus said salvation and inheriting God's Kingdom depends on whether or not a person endures "To The End." Do you believe Jesus said this?

 

[JoReba]

Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

bio

Paul said many things not taught by Jesus, didn't he? The Ephesians were commended by Jesus for tossing out false apostles. The Letter to Ephesus is Paul's obvious attempt by him to qualify himself to these very Ephesian Believers.

 

[JoReba]

19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Those who persevere will be saved because their conversion was real. Those who fall away it is because their conversion was not real. Salvation cannot be lost.

29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

This scripture passage tell us that those of us who truly accepted Jesus are predestined to be conformed to His image (Jesus'). Therefore, we cannot lose our salvation.

How about if you begin speaking for yourself, rather than presuming to speak for "Us." Okay?

 

[Pizzaguy]

Example of 1 John 2:19 - Judas was anointed. Judas was empowered. Judas cast out Devils. Judas healed the sick. Judas preached the gospel. This is why Jesus said, "Lord, have we not cast out Devils in your name?" Jesus states, "I don't know who you are."

I'm confused, please explain more. Wasn't Judas's faith always in question, whether he was truly born again or not.

IT might be off topic to go into it too deeply in this thread, but I believe Judas was saved and is in heaven.
I believe that, possibly, he did not intend to betray Jesus, but that he (arrogantly, perhaps) thought that it was time to, in a way, force Jesus' hand - Judas, like many others then, wanted Jesus to RULE and TAKE OVER. I believe he thought that he was bringing about the Kingdom, and that Jesus would NOT allow them to arrest Him, and "it would hit the fan" and Jesus would call an army of angels to His side.

As soon as Judas realized what was happening, look at how he reacted! He did not act like a man with no scruples, he was deeply sorry.


Of course, I could be wrong....

 

[JoReba]

@questdriven People who walk away from their faith are called apostates or false prophets. They were never born again to begin with. They just played the part well like actors in Hollywood.

So it would seem according to Scripture.
There were a couple of times a while back that I can think of that I specifically wanted to walk away from the faith. I guess as long as I belong to God He won't let that happen. And He didn't, because He brought me back.

Yes indeed. The blood of Christ is thicker than concrete my friend. Blessings.

The Bible says nothing about the "thickness" of Christ's Blood. Why do you?

 

[Guest]

Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

bio

Paul said many things not taught by Jesus, didn't he? The Ephesians were commended by Jesus for tossing out false apostles. The Letter to Ephesus is Paul's obvious attempt by him to qualify himself to these very Ephesian Believers.

Ugh, this is why I don't come on forums anymore. It's disgusting how people twist the Word of God. This forum is just getting worse and worse.

 

[iLOVE]

Example of 1 John 2:19 - Judas was anointed. Judas was empowered. Judas cast out Devils. Judas healed the sick. Judas preached the gospel. This is why Jesus said, "Lord, have we not cast out Devils in your name?" Jesus states, "I don't know who you are."

I'm confused, please explain more. Wasn't Judas's faith always in question, whether he was truly born again or not.

IT might be off topic to go into it too deeply in this thread, but I believe Judas was saved and is in heaven.
I believe that, possibly, he did not intend to betray Jesus, but that he (arrogantly, perhaps) thought that it was time to, in a way, force Jesus' hand - Judas, like many others then, wanted Jesus to RULE and TAKE OVER. I believe he thought that he was bringing about the Kingdom, and that Jesus would NOT allow them to arrest Him, and "it would hit the fan" and Jesus would call an army of angels to His side.

As soon as Judas realized what was happening, look at how he reacted! He did not act like a man with no scruples, he was deeply sorry.


Of course, I could be wrong....

10 “Do you refuse to speak to me?†Pilate said. “Don’t you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?â€
11 Jesus answered, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.†John 19: 10-11 NIV

 

[turnorburn]

pizzaman said

IT might be off topic to go into it too deeply in this thread, but I believe Judas was saved and is in heaven.
I believe that, possibly, he did not intend to betray Jesus, but that he (arrogantly, perhaps) thought that it was time to, in a way, force Jesus' hand - Judas, like many others then, wanted Jesus to RULE and TAKE OVER. I believe he thought that he was bringing about the Kingdom, and that Jesus would NOT allow them to arrest Him, and "it would hit the fan" and Jesus would call an army of angels to His side.

As soon as Judas realized what was happening, look at how he reacted! He did not act like a man with no scruples, he was deeply sorry.


Of course, I could be wrong

[edited by staff]

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

No devils in heaven last i heard..

tob

 

[Guest]

10 “Do you refuse to speak to me?” Pilate said. “Don’t you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?”
11 Jesus answered, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.” John 19: 10-11 NIV

WOW!!!!

 

[Pizzaguy]

Ok, if Judas was KNOWINGLY working for the devil, then why did he show remorse?
If betrayal was his goal, would he not have celebrated his little victory?

It seems he celebrated in an odd way for someone who had succeeded in his quest.

 

[Pizzaguy]

10 “Do you refuse to speak to me?” Pilate said. “Don’t you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?”
11 Jesus answered, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.” John 19: 10-11 NIV

Did Judas turn Him over to Pilate?

From John 18:
28 Then the Jewish leaders took Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness they did not enter the palace, because they wanted to be able to eat the Passover. 29 So Pilate came out to them and asked, “What charges are you bringing against this man?”


Hey, if someone can start a thread telling me that Jesus's work on the cross and my acceptance of His gift is not enough - then I can assert that Judas was just arrogant and confused. Seems fair to me.

 

[Narwhalist]

19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Those who persevere will be saved because their conversion was real. Those who fall away it is because their conversion was not real. Salvation cannot be lost.

29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

This scripture passage tell us that those of us who truly accepted Jesus are predestined to be conformed to His image (Jesus'). Therefore, we cannot lose our salvation.

How about if you begin speaking for yourself, rather than presuming to speak for "Us." Okay?

I don't speak for anyone, but I speak for myself and to anyone who is willing to listen. You don't seem to have a very biblical approach to conversing. Remember the golden rule.

 

[josefnospam]

One question? Does it depend on what you do?

 

[farouk]

One question? Does it depend on what you do?

Titus 3.5-7

 

[iLOVE]

Example of 1 John 2:19 - Judas was anointed. Judas was empowered. Judas cast out Devils. Judas healed the sick. Judas preached the gospel. This is why Jesus said, "Lord, have we not cast out Devils in your name?" Jesus states, "I don't know who you are."

I'm confused, please explain more. Wasn't Judas's faith always in question, whether he was truly born again or not.

IT might be off topic to go into it too deeply in this thread, but I believe Judas was saved and is in heaven.
I believe that, possibly, he did not intend to betray Jesus, but that he (arrogantly, perhaps) thought that it was time to, in a way, force Jesus' hand - Judas, like many others then, wanted Jesus to RULE and TAKE OVER. I believe he thought that he was bringing about the Kingdom, and that Jesus would NOT allow them to arrest Him, and "it would hit the fan" and Jesus would call an army of angels to His side.

As soon as Judas realized what was happening, look at how he reacted! He did not act like a man with no scruples, he was deeply sorry.


Of course, I could be wrong....

15 In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) 16 and said, “Brothers and sisters,[d] the Scripture had to be fulfilled in which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus. 17 He was one of our number and shared in our ministry.â€
18(With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
20 “For,†said Peter, “it is written in the Book of Psalms:
“‘May his place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in it,’[e]

and,
“‘May another take his place of leadership. Acts 1:15-20 NIV

As you have read above, God allowed Judas to die a very violent death for betraying His Son Jesus. So do you still believe Judas is in heaven?

 

[JLB]

Example of 1 John 2:19 - Judas was anointed. Judas was empowered. Judas cast out Devils. Judas healed the sick. Judas preached the gospel. This is why Jesus said, "Lord, have we not cast out Devils in your name?" Jesus states, "I don't know who you are."

I'm confused, please explain more. Wasn't Judas's faith always in question, whether he was truly born again or not.

IT might be off topic to go into it too deeply in this thread, but I believe Judas was saved and is in heaven.
I believe that, possibly, he did not intend to betray Jesus, but that he (arrogantly, perhaps) thought that it was time to, in a way, force Jesus' hand - Judas, like many others then, wanted Jesus to RULE and TAKE OVER. I believe he thought that he was bringing about the Kingdom, and that Jesus would NOT allow them to arrest Him, and "it would hit the fan" and Jesus would call an army of angels to His side.

As soon as Judas realized what was happening, look at how he reacted! He did not act like a man with no scruples, he was deeply sorry.


Of course, I could be wrong....

15 In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) 16 and said, “Brothers and sisters,[d] the Scripture had to be fulfilled in which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus. 17 He was one of our number and shared in our ministry.”
18(With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
20 “For,” said Peter, “it is written in the Book of Psalms:
“‘May his place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in it,’[e]

and,
“‘May another take his place of leadership. Acts 1:15-20 NIV

As you have read above, God allowed Judas to die a very violent death for betraying His Son Jesus. So do you still believe Judas is in heaven?

25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place." Acts 1:25


Probably not a place anyone would want to spend eternity.


JLB

 

[Sparkey]

18 Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out.

25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place." Acts 1:25

... His own place ...

I'd like to see a little more by way of Scriptural support for this conclusion. It seems that the word "place" might be understood as something other than hell? Pardon if it sounds like I'm in opposition to what you're saying, 'cause I'm not. Maybe the prayer of Jesus seen in John 17? Jesus speaks of the "son of perdition" there, or the context of Psalm 109 and verse 8.

 

[PrivateTimm]

15 In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) 16 and said, “Brothers and sisters,[d] the Scripture had to be fulfilled in which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus. 17 He was one of our number and shared in our ministry.” 18(With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) 20 “For,” said Peter, “it is written in the Book of Psalms: “‘May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,’[e] and, “‘May another take his place of leadership. Acts 1:15-20 NIV As you have read above, God allowed Judas to die a very violent death for betraying His Son Jesus. So do you still believe Judas is in heaven?

Or Judas hanged himself: Matthew 27:1-10

1 Early in the morning, all the chief priests and the elders of the people made their plans how to have Jesus executed. 2 So they bound him, led him away and handed him over to Pilate the governor. 3 When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. 4 “I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.”
“What is that to us?” they replied. “That’s your responsibility.”
5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.
6 The chief priests picked up the coins and said, “It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money.” 7 So they decided to use the money to buy the potter’s field as a burial place for foreigners. 8 That is why it has been called the Field of Blood to this day. 9 Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: “They took the thirty pieces of silver, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10 and they used them to buy the potter’s field, as the Lord commanded me.”[a]

As you have read above, Judas was remorseful, returned the money and then hanged himself out of guilt.

I an not sure I buy pizzaguy's theory that Judas is in Heaven, but at least he has some Scriptural support for Judas repenting (maybe).

As to JoWilli's question, it is semantic word playing. If his (her?) intent is to argue a works based salvation, then it is clearly wrong. If they are saying that mere recitation of some words does not guarantee salvation, I could agree with that. But there are miles of gray area about what is a genuine conversion and not.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Judas DID sin. But then, so have I. I have been forgiven, and I dont' see where or how it is so troubling to some for me to suggest that Judas could have been forgiven.

Judas did NOT intend for Jesus to be crucified, he expected, as did (I surmise) the other followers, that Jesus was about to take over and establish His kingdom on earth, very soon.
Jesus even talked of the signs of His coming - and He did NOT say, "I'll be back in 2,000 years..."

I still say Judas thought he was making Jesus do what Judad expected Him to do: bring Heaven to earth.

I don't KNOW that Judas is in heaven, I simply say that I see evidence for it. Peter denied Jesus three time, even swore something like "God Damn it I don't know Him..." and Jesus forgave Peter.

The forgiveness of Christ, and what He did on the cross, goes way beyond what any of us can conceive of. We simply do NOT understand the mind of God.

Oh, and the thread title is blasphemy.