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"Believe" in the present tense

Gregg T said:
For those of us who believe that salvation can not be lost, perhaps where we have been saying 'believe' in that context, we should say 'believe so as to be saved.'

Someone can believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and that no one comes to the Father but by Him, but still fall short of trusting Him for personal salvation. I know people in the occult and the highest level of Freemasonry that are convinced that Jesus is the Son of God, and that He was crucified and resurrected; but refuse to repent of their following Satan, refuse to be obedient to God by believing into Jesus Christ, and willfully do everything possible to mock and blaspheme His Name.

The LORD knows the hearts of men, whether they believe superficially and with convenient intent; as opposed to those who know His requirement of righteousness, repentance, obedience, so as to genuinely place their trust in Him by believing into Jesus Christ.

When someone believes into Christ he is saved, permanently and forever, and will never perish, now having a new kind of life that is eternal. Being united with Christ through the indwelling of His Spirit, he is a new creation in Christ (Eph 2:10 b, Col 3:10, Gal 6:15, 2Cor 5:17). This is His work, and His doing; which once began will be completed according to God's intention, as we are His workmanship in this matter (Eph 2:10 a), worked in God (Jn 3:6, 3:21), who is our Founder and Finisher (Heb 12:2), and I also am "being persuaded of this very thing, that the One having begun a good work in you will finish it until the day of Jesus Christ;" (Philippians 1:6).

If someone having eternal life in Christ, belonging to Him, being in Him, could lose or forfeit His salvation, then that would make God not the Finisher, not the One having begun a good work, not the One completing it, a careless Builder, and a promise breaker.

The false doctrine of contingent continual salvation, and / or co-salvation, essentially makes God a liar.

This is the one who is in Christ, he is "one having been saved" (Eph 2:8); because at that time, having then believed into Christ, the individual salvation resulting from that kind of faith is a perpetual never-ending continuous into-the-ages forever eternal salvation. The matter is sealed by the Spirit of the LORD through His indwelling, being also accompanied by a promise of God.

"Not at all will I leave you, not at all will I forsake you, never!" (Heb 13:5) and "The LORD is the one who goes ahead of you; He will be with you. He will not fail you or forsake you. Do not fear or be dismayed." (Deu 31:8).

If anyone here who has been reading these forums, and wondering if you could possibly lose salvation, then you should rest firmly and know that if you belong to Christ - that matter is completed, done, accomplished. It is by His grace and love and blessing that we are saved with such a salvation by our Savior and Shepherd.
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If anyone here who has been reading these forums, and wondering if they could possibly lose salvation I think they'd walk away confused. Especially if they are a relatively new believer.
 
FreeGrace said:
If anything I find in Scripture does not "dove-tail" with my teaching, I WILL abandon my teaching and get in line with Scripture.
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Okay, thanks. Makes sense to me. I think that's what what the Biblical author expects of us.

Even if your church's teachings were found to be contradicted by Scripture, you'd get in line with Scripture and abandon your church's false teachings in favor of Scripture?

I know of some Christians that refuse to go against their church's traditions, even if contradictory to Scripture, is the only reason I ask.
 
Papa Zoom said:
I'm not sure to which post you refer. But as for Romans 6:1 Paul is pointing out the exceeding grace of God that exceeds all sins. Then he makes sure no one getsd the wrong idea. Just because God's grace abounds does that give us license to sin? NO. Or as in the Hispanic Bible "No Way Jose!"

If you're referring to my view, I don't think it qualifies for hyper grace. I've read what some of the hyper grace teachers believe and I don't hold to some of those views.
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Just a general statement .. General thought on this goofy on going battle ...
 
Cygnus said:
Then good for you.
My sins were ALL forgiven, past present and future the moment I first believed. All of them were imputed to Christ. Not some of them but all of them.
Even when Christ tells me to do something and I don't...that sin was forgiven at the cross 2,000 years ago.
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So Jesus says, "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Mt. 6:14-15

You say all of your sins past, present and future were imputed to Christ the moment you first believed. But it was Christ who said, but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Mt. 6:14-15

Who are we to believe? You or Christ?
 
MarkT said:
So Jesus says, "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Mt. 6:14-15

You say all of your sins past, present and future were imputed to Christ the moment you first believed. But it was Christ who said, but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Mt. 6:14-15

Who are we to believe? You or Christ?
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Unfair. You didn't address what you don't agree with. What exactly did he say that you have a problem with. Just address his words. I think what he said is biblical. So what are he and I missing?
 
MarkT said:
So Jesus says, "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Mt. 6:14-15

You say all of your sins past, present and future were imputed to Christ the moment you first believed. But it was Christ who said, but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Mt. 6:14-15

Who are we to believe? You or Christ?
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I believe this is a great point to the topic at hand...
 
FreeGrace said:
I said all this:
"I wish you'd not try to speak for those you don't agree with. It's obvious that you're not even aware of our view.

The reason John wrote 1 Jn 1:9 is precisely because we do sin, which negatively effects our fellowship with God. We need to confess our sins in order to be forgiven and purified from all unrighteousness.

I've never met an eternal security believer who didn't rely on regular confession of sins for forgiveness and cleansing.

Your comments are way off the wall.

Pure nonsense."

To answer your question, none.

But, you're not even going to address anything in my post? I consider that rude.


I don't recall him EVER suggesting that. Could you direct me to the post where he did? I'd like to examine it.


Your point is FALSE. Am I clear on that?
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Sorry. What did I miss? Yes. We do sin. The wages of sin is death. Right? So we are not talking about some negative effect re. fellowship. If a person falls into unbelief, he is dead. The light of life is no longer in him. Dead branches are broken off and burned.
 
Papa Zoom said:
If anyone here who has been reading these forums, and wondering if they could possibly lose salvation I think they'd walk away confused. Especially if they are a relatively new believer.
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Yes, or an unbeliever. And because I have been less than patient and loving, and an infant apologist, I am grieved. And I am grieved because of those opposing the character and nature and Person of the LORD. But each generation must hash these things out, unless gnosticism and the plethora of false teachings and those who hold down the truth in unrighteousness gain a foothold among believers.
 
dirtfarmer here

Scripture states that we have died in Christ and have been alive in him. The life that we now live is Christ living in us; so, my question is, do we have the power to resurrect the dead? If we do, then we can reusrrect the old man and give life to him. if only Christ has to power of resurrection, then we can't lose that life that was given to us by Christ.
 
Gregg T said:
If someone having eternal life in Christ, belonging to Him, being in Him, could lose or forfeit His salvation, then that would make God not the Finisher, not the One having begun a good work, not the One completing it, a careless Builder, and a promise breaker.
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True.
 
MarkT said:
So Jesus says, "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Mt. 6:14-15
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Why do you guys even post in this fashion? You post requirements are so damning even YOU can't achieve what you ay Jesus asked for.

Let me ask you....have you forgiven everyone who has sinned against you? They say if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Do you really think the bible is saying what you say it's saying concerning Mt 6:14-15?
 
chessman said:
Okay, thanks. Makes sense to me. I think that's what what the Biblical author expects of us.
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:)

Even if your church's teachings were found to be contradicted by Scripture, you'd get in line with Scripture and abandon your church's false teachings in favor of Scripture?
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At that point, I'd need to changes churches.

I know of some Christians that refuse to go against their church's traditions, even if contradictory to Scripture, is the only reason I ask.
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How sad.
 
MarkT said:
Sorry. What did I miss? Yes. We do sin. The wages of sin is death. Right? So we are not talking about some negative effect re. fellowship. If a person falls into unbelief, he is dead. The light of life is no longer in him. Dead branches are broken off and burned.
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Yes, dead branches asre broken off and burned. Does that refer to loss of salvation?

It CAN'T. Why not? Because Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

So the metaphor Jesus used in John 15 isn't about losing salvation or His claim in 10:28 cannot be true. So the farming metaphor is about something else; service and fellowship. Or lack thereof.
 
FreeGrace said:
Yes, dead branches asre broken off and burned. Does that refer to loss of salvation?
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Does a branch continue to live when it is cast into the fire and burned?

Yes, burned in the fire refers to loss of salvation.

Those who are in Christ, have access to eternal life.

Those who are removed from Christ, no longer have access to eternal life which is only found in Christ.
FreeGrace said:
It CAN'T. Why not? Because Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28
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John 10:28 is for those who do believe, who hear His voice and follow Him, are promised eternal life.

26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Where is your scripture that says those who do not believe any longer, have eternal life?

Still waiting for it.


JLB
 
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