"Believe" in the present tense

[FreeGrace]

Beliefs vx cognitive dissonance...

Which one wins?
Which one gets the "I never knew you!" from Jesus?

Great question!! The ones who are trying to base their entrance into the kingdom on what they did.
Matt 7:21-23

 

[JohnDB]

Thanks. I was hoping for the answer to my questions:
"The question is: how do mood and sex relate to the OP and how the present tense is used?"

and

"Second, how does one use "all three tenses at the same time". This doesn't seem possible. And just to note, Greek has not 3, but 6 tenses."

As I already stated... apparently you didn't read what I wrote.
I am not and will not be your Greek/Early Latin teacher.

 

[JohnDB]

Great question!! The ones who are trying to base their entrance into the kingdom on what they did.
Matt 7:21-23

So is this a backhanded way of saying that what they believed was wrong?

If this is so...
Then why no beatitude about "Blessed are the most theologically correct for they...",?

 

[FreeGrace]

So is this a backhanded way of saying that what they believed was wrong?

No, nothing backhanded. The point is that they obviously never believed in Him for salvation. They were basing their salvation on their works, which didn't save them.

 

[JohnDB]

No, nothing backhanded. The point is that they obviously never believed in Him for salvation. They were basing their salvation on their works, which didn't save them.

Right...
So what they believed about what Jesus wants from us was incorrect.... Meaning that they had incorrect theology.

So my question still stands.

Why no beatitude about "Blessed are the most theologically correct for they..."?

 

[Nathan]

Because the Bible calls them apostates, which distinguishes them from those who NEVER believed, which are described as unbelievers.


Well, one will find the 3rd description if they look in the Bible.

Apostates. Ok, so does the Bible says apostates will dwell with Christ in eternity?

 

[JohnDB]

Apostates. Ok, so does the Bible says apostates will dwell with Christ in eternity?

Apostate...
From apostacise... Meaning to kick someone out of the family.
Serious business in a caste based society. But it regularly happened to Christians from Jewish families.

 

[Jim Parker]

I said this:
"The link provided supports that."

I don't recall anyone providing any other link that "debunks" anything about the OP.

So, what are you talking about?

Your recollection is not an exhaustive catalog of all views.

 

[Kidron]

So, it's clear that one is saved from a point in time belief, or a simple occurrence of belief.

.

-

What you are saying is typical of the mistake many make when they are putting trust in Faith, instead of the ONE who saved them.

Understand that God is the one offering the mercy and pardon, justification and sanctification, that establishes us to be righteous.
This operation is completed THROUGH the sacrifice of Christ on a Cross.
In other words, God's issue to solve is .....He is righteous, we are not, = eternal disconnect.
So, how does He create us, (sinners) to be righteous, so that He,.... HOLY GOD.... can ACCEPT US as equal in righteousness????? ?????????????
As without this ETERNAL equality, there is no salvation for us as there is no acceptance of us.
The definition of Salvation, for a person, is the acceptance by God of them, based on them being as righteous as He is...
And only He, God Himself, can do this for you, and YOU cant do anything about it, so, (some of you) until you realize this, you'll continue to be stuck in your efforts and your confessing and your whatever else you are doing to try to meet God's standards by YOUR EFFORT.
Which of course, is impossible to do.
And until a person understands this, then they will worry endlessly about faith, and works, and discipleship, and confessing sins and confession in general, and "doing doing doing"= things.

So, once we understand that our Faith (trust) is only the release mechanism that releases GOD TO SAVE YOU, then we can relax, realizing that there is no more need for concern left about faith and confessing sins and all these THINGS that so so so many are trying to DO as some sort of attempt to complete their salvation THEMSELVES.
You FAITH didnt save you...but rather GOD accepted your faith TO save you.
God is your savior, ......not your faith.
You gave God your faith,.. (trust)... and God gave THEN gave you His Righteousness, (imputed it to you) .....and its THAT.... its His righteousness being applied to you that He accepts, thereby accepting you BECAUSE OF This fact.....and only because of this fact.
See, He cant accept you, but he CAN accept His own Righteousness that has made you acceptable to Him.
This is why your bible tells you that "Jesus (and NOT YOU), is the author and finisher of your faith, and that "GOD who began a good work in you, (born again) will be FAITHFUL TO COMPLETE IT".....and not you.
You are to be a good disciple who understand Who saved you.......and that is not you.
We are to serve God BECAUSE of what He has done for us Through the Blood of Christ, and not because we are trying to complete what He started.........= oh YE Legalist.
And of course, to think this way, Mr and Mrs Legalist, ....Galatians 1:8... is the opposite of actually understanding how and why God saves a human being through a Sacrifice on a Cross.
Jesus on a Cross, took your sin, and then God gave you His very own Righteousness.
That is what and how and WHO and why, = saved you.
And that is NOT you.

 

[FreeGrace]

Right...
So what they believed about what Jesus wants from us was incorrect.... Meaning that they had incorrect theology.

They certainly didn't believe in Him for eternal life. They thought entering the kingdom was by works. Which was their basis for trying to get in.

So my question still stands.

Why no beatitude about "Blessed are the most theologically correct for they..."?

No one is saved unless they are theologically correct about how to receive eternal life. Those who are theologically incorrect are not saved.

iow, that crowd in Matt 7:21-23 thought they could earn their way into heaven. That is theologically incorrect. And they didn't get in.

 

[FreeGrace]

Apostates. Ok, so does the Bible says apostates will dwell with Christ in eternity?

Doesn't have to. The fact that the Bible does say that having believed, one is sealed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit, for the day of redemption.

The Bible also says that the gifts of God are irrevocable in Rom 11:29 and that eternal life is a gift of God in Rom 6:23.

Nothing more is needed to say.

Even so, 1 Pet 1:23 says we are born again of imperishable seed. Therefore, we are imperishable in our new nature.

 

[FreeGrace]

Apostate...
From apostacise... Meaning to kick someone out of the family.

Not in any of the lexicons I've checked. Please provide a source that gives this meaning.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"The link provided supports that."

I don't recall anyone providing any other link that "debunks" anything about the OP.

So, what are you talking about?

Your recollection is not an exhaustive catalog of all views.

This isn't about "all views". It's about any of the views debunking anything in the OP.

If there have been, please share the post # and how it debunks the OP.

Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"So, it's clear that one is saved from a point in time belief, or a simple occurrence of belief."

-
What you are saying is typical of the mistake many make when they are putting trust in Faith, instead of the ONE who saved them.

My comment was in reference to the aorist tense of 'believe'. It had nothing to do with WHERE one's trust or faith is.

And speaking of that, I've NOT made that mistake. Not even close. One's trust or faith MUST be in the Savior, Jesus Christ, for salvation.

But you're correct that it is a mistake, and a huge one at that, to put your trust in your faith, which it seems a number on this forum seem to do. By their claim that if one ceases to believe, they cease to be saved.

All that preaching in the rest of the post wasn't necessary, since I haven't made that mistake.

 

[Nathan]

Doesn't have to. The fact that the Bible does say that having believed, one is sealed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit, for the day of redemption.

The Bible also says that the gifts of God are irrevocable in Rom 11:29 and that eternal life is a gift of God in Rom 6:23.

Nothing more is needed to say.

Even so, 1 Pet 1:23 says we are born again of imperishable seed. Therefore, we are imperishable in our new nature.

So does an apostate have the Spirit of God in them?

 

[gr8grace3]

Yes, sir. One who believes is saved. And some only believe for a while because of temptation.


But I totally reject the notion that temptation can, in any way, undo the salvation that Christ secured for us by His sacrifice on the cross.


I don't care what anyone calls them, I am only concerned with how the Bible describes them, which is 'apostates'.


The Bible doesn't need to state anything "according to your personal terms". The Bible is clear on many fronts, all of which have been shared with this forum.


Yes, I agree.


So then, did Jesus not die for the sin of lying?? Please answer.


Just answer my question please.


So then, did Jesus not die for the sin of sorcery? Please answer.


So then, did Jesus not die for sexual immorality?? Please answer.

If you believe that Christians, who practice sexual immorality, and sorcery, and heresies, and adultery, and fornication, and idolatry, and murders and such, will still inherit God's kingdom, even though Paul teaches otherwise then please post the scripture that teaches us otherwise.



It would be absurdity for anyone to claim "not inherit the kingdom" somehow means "to inherit the kingdom".

And it's equally absurdity to claim that "to not inherit the kingdom" means "to not enter the kingdom" either.


Such a one will be IN the kingdom, but just not have any inheritance there. Eph 5:5.


Of course it isn't. But then, why is yours so different than that of Jesus Christ? Please answer.

Could not have said it any better and clearer than that. Thumbs ups.

 

[gr8grace3]

-

What you are saying is typical of the mistake many make when they are putting trust in Faith, instead of the ONE who saved them.

Understand that God is the one offering the mercy and pardon, justification and sanctification, that establishes us to be righteous.
This operation is completed THROUGH the sacrifice of Christ on a Cross.
In other words, God's issue to solve is .....He is righteous, we are not, = eternal disconnect.
So, how does He create us, (sinners) to be righteous, so that He,.... HOLY GOD.... can ACCEPT US as equal in righteousness????? ?????????????
As without this ETERNAL equality, there is no salvation for us as there is no acceptance of us.
The definition of Salvation, for a person, is the acceptance by God of them, based on them being as righteous as He is...
And only He, God Himself, can do this for you, and YOU cant do anything about it, so, (some of you) until you realize this, you'll continue to be stuck in your efforts and your confessing and your whatever else you are doing to try to meet God's standards by YOUR EFFORT.
Which of course, is impossible to do.
And until a person understands this, then they will worry endlessly about faith, and works, and discipleship, and confessing sins and confession in general, and "doing doing doing"= things.

So, once we understand that our Faith (trust) is only the release mechanism that releases GOD TO SAVE YOU, then we can relax, realizing that there is no more need for concern left about faith and confessing sins and all these THINGS that so so so many are trying to DO as some sort of attempt to complete their salvation THEMSELVES.
You FAITH didnt save you...but rather GOD accepted your faith TO save you.
God is your savior, ......not your faith.
You gave God your faith,.. (trust)... and God gave THEN gave you His Righteousness, (imputed it to you) .....and its THAT.... its His righteousness being applied to you that He accepts, thereby accepting you BECAUSE OF This fact.....and only because of this fact.
See, He cant accept you, but he CAN accept His own Righteousness that has made you acceptable to Him.
This is why your bible tells you that "Jesus (and NOT YOU), is the author and finisher of your faith, and that "GOD who began a good work in you, (born again) will be FAITHFUL TO COMPLETE IT".....and not you.
You are to be a good disciple who understand Who saved you.......and that is not you.
We are to serve God BECAUSE of what He has done for us Through the Blood of Christ, and not because we are trying to complete what He started.........= oh YE Legalist.
And of course, to think this way, Mr and Mrs Legalist, ....Galatians 1:8... is the opposite of actually understanding how and why God saves a human being through a Sacrifice on a Cross.
Jesus on a Cross, took your sin, and then God gave you His very own Righteousness.
That is what and how and WHO and why, = saved you.
And that is NOT you.

I believe you are preaching to the choir on this one. It is not our faith that saves us......it is the object of our faith that does the saving.....The Lord Jesus Christ.

And FreeGrace has been the one stressing this to those who are relying on their personal faith to be saved rather than the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Nathan]

I believe you are preaching to the choir on this one. It is not our faith that saves us......it is the object of our faith that does the saving.....The Lord Jesus Christ.

And FreeGrace has been the one stressing this to those who are relying on their personal faith to be saved rather than the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And yet it is being said that if we deny the one who saves us, not just our faith, that we can still be received into eternal life?

Jesus does the saving, but by which medium does He do it? Through faith right? If faith was not needed to save then why must we have it?

 

[Nathan]

I believe you are preaching to the choir on this one. It is not our faith that saves us......it is the object of our faith that does the saving.....The Lord Jesus Christ.

And FreeGrace has been the one stressing this to those who are relying on their personal faith to be saved rather than the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I'd pose this question to you also;

Does an apostate have the Spirit of God in them? Present tense of course.

 

[Jim Parker]

So, the claim that the present tense means continuous action to the end of one's life is an incorrect use of the tense.

I agree.
So what is your point?