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Believing Must Be The First Step, Right?

Hopeful--- Please read the following:

"And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?" (1 Cor. 3: 3-4)

Please note: Paul is addressing "the church" at Corinth. He is not telling them they are lost. These are real believers. But they are acting sinfully. They are filled with envy, strife and division. You say that is not possible--believers cannot be sinful. But note he calls them CARNAL, "even as unto babes in Christ". What you are missing (and I believe Anchor is missing also) is that a Christian has TWO natures: He is a NEW CREATION (and that nature CANNOT SIN). But he still has a nature of flesh. If you are a Christian and live by the flesh you are CARNAL. You are born again, but you are not allowing the Spirit to LEAD you. That is when God steps in to CHASTISE his children (just as we as father's chastise our children also) to get them to walk spiritually, and by faith. Do you recall that in 1 Corinthians these same "Christians" are taking each other to court? That is fleshly. But Paul says to them "Don't you know that WE will judge angels?" He includes them in that sentence: WE. He is definitely addressing Christians. The man who sinned so woefully in 1 Corinthians was a BELIEVER. In 2 Corinthians we see that the church actually excommunicated him (or threatened to) and he repented of his sin and returned to the church. This man was a real believer.
You say the ones insinuating that learning things from one preacher makes them different than those taught by other preachers are sinning.
What Law did they break ?
The adulterer was surely sinning as his deed was against the Law.
In the case of the man taking a brother in the Lord to court, again, what Law did he break ?
The adulterer was not converted, and had he died before his hoped for repentance from sin, would not have been saved.
The others, were just not knowledgeable to what Paul later taught them.
But I see no sin at all.

Christians have the nature of their new Father.
That which was born of Adam has been destroyed, (Rom 6:6, Gal 5:24), and a new creature was raised with Christ to take its place. (Rom 6:4)
 
If you believe everyone must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, yes we are on the same page. 99.9% of the modern church world does not believe that. Therefore, 99.9% of the modern church world is wrong.
There is no wrong name under which to baptize.
The name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is Jesus.
 
Sorry my dear friend, I can’t show you anything, your heart and mind is fixed already there is no way, I could help you in anyway.
I know you can’t, as you’re still avoiding addressing anything too difficult for your position. You’re not even trying to get to the truth because your heart and mind are fixed on passages of Scripture while ignoring other large portions. You’ve taken everything out of context.

You take care, I hope you will be well.
You too.
 
Jesus told the apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. (Matt 28:29)
Isn't that enough for you ?
What is the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. ?
It is Jesus.
No. The name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is YHWH. The name Jesus applies only to the incarnate Son.
 
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If you believe everyone must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, yes we are on the same page. 99.9% of the modern church world does not believe that. Therefore, 99.9% of the modern church world is wrong.
We don't believe that because the Bible doesn't not say that
Baptism is absolutely not required for salvation. ONLY faith in Christ is required for salvation.. everything else is false teaching. What must be repented of is unbelief in Christ. That is the pattern or righteousness throughout the Bible. That is what fits the context of the whole Bible.

"It is by grace you have been saved through faith and this not of yourselves it is the gift of God and NOT THE RESULT OF WORKS so that no man may boast."

"Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness."

"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin."

"21But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness is given through faith in h Jesus Christ to all who believe."


"25God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, i through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus."

"10Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised."


"1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? a 4Have you experienced b so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
"

We are saved by grace alone, by faith alone, in Christ alone.

If you confess your sins He is faithful and JUST to forgive our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness.

1 John was written to believers. Believers are to confess their sins and when they do they are forgiven, not only that but it is Justice when God does it.. so complete was Jesus's work on the cross that it would be unjust of God not to forgive us when we confess. This has nothing to do with our goodness but rather the completeness of Jesus's sacrifice and victory over sin.. We don't defeat sin, Jesus did.

How much sin does God forgive? ALL OF IT.. sin as an issue is done.. dealt with, finished, gone. Avoiding sin is not our primary focus. Drawing close to God is our focus and always has been. The idea that the way God interacts with us had changed from old testament to new is false.
The only thing that has changed is that we are under grace not under the law, which Paul was so adamant about throughout his works.
We are under the promise God made to Abraham. Righteousness not through our behavior but through faith.. faith of course should lead to right behavior. However we are still sinners and we still need confession repentance and forgiveness.

John writing to believers tells us that we are sinners and that anyone claiming not to be is a liar who has no truth.

That's simply what the Bible says when you take the whole thing in context..

Paul says it is through the law we become conscious of sin. If one comes to faith in Christ but doesn't know the law they cannot be conscious of sin and therefore cannot repent of sin. This was exactly the case in Paul's epistles. He was writing to people who did not know the law, Gentiles he had to train them not to be like heathens, yet these were saved believers in Christ. They learned over time what they needed to repent of to become more Christ like. They were already saved on account of believing God and having it accounted to them as righteousness.

Dear God, after all these years I am still just a sinner saved by Your grace through the work of Your Son Jesus.
I am in desperate need of your constant intervention in my life through Your Holy Spirit. Thank You for saving me. I did not deserve it and still don't. Thank You for Your grace and mercy. They are the only way I make it through each day. Lord may we all be humble when we think of You and bring us all into obedience to your word through Your work as our work is filthy rags. Lord I am nothing on my own. Everything good in or from my life is from You.
Lord please forgive my sin so that I may be righteousness. I believe Jesus is the Son of God, slain for my iniquity, raised from the dead by Your power and sitting at Your right hand according to your Glory. Thank you for giving me this faith, make me a better steward of it. In the name above every other Jesus.. amen.
 
No. The name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is YHWH. The name Jesus applies only to the incarnate Son.
So much for your trinity belief...eh ?
Are the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, one, or not ?
 
First, as long interesting as that is, it is fallaciously begging he question, by beginning with the assumption that those verses are supposed to be in there. Second, it is getting into superstition and therefore misuse of the number of 666, which is the number of a man, not the number of verses that must not be allowed in the Mark’s gospel.
Free---- I would agree that it is all conjecture. But don't you find it even a bit strange that modern scholars question verses 9-20, and if you remove them, there are a total of 666 verses in the Gospel? I find it to be very intriguing and strange. The "modern scholars" also question 1 John 5:7 and remove it from that epistle (The KJV retains it). Do these "modern scholars" even know what they are talking about? Yet everyone who reads the NIV or NLT (and others) are made to question verses 9-20 in the Gospel of Mark. I find that to be very strange.

You are correct---it is "conjecture" and may fall into superstition, but it is still very strange that we arrive at the number 666 for total verses if we listen to the "modern scholars".
 
Free---- I would agree that it is all conjecture. But don't you find it even a bit strange that modern scholars question verses 9-20, and if you remove them, there are a total of 666 verses in the Gospel? I find it to be very intriguing and strange. The "modern scholars" also question 1 John 5:7 and remove it from that epistle (The KJV retains it). Do these "modern scholars" even know what they are talking about? Yet everyone who reads the NIV or NLT (and others) are made to question verses 9-20 in the Gospel of Mark. I find that to be very strange.

You are correct---it is "conjecture" and may fall into superstition, but it is still very strange that we arrive at the number 666 for total verses if we listen to the "modern scholars".
I love the number games some may play.
Your avatar for instance...Fish 153.
One and five are six, and three times makes it 666 !
Are you a man ?
LOL
 
So much for your trinity belief...eh ?
What do you mean? What I stated is exactly in line with the doctrine of the Trinity. To say that "the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost . . . is Jesus," as you did, is the heresy of Sabellianism/Modalism and Oneness. There is a reason Oneness Pentecostals are also known as Jesus Only.

Are the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, one, or not ?
Of course they are. There is only one God, introduced in the OT, and his name is YHWH. But that one God, YHWH, has always existed as three divine persons. Only one of those persons became flesh, at which point he was named Jesus.
 
I love the number games some may play.
Your avatar for instance...Fish 153.
One and five are six, and three times makes it 666 !
Are you a man ?
LOL
Hopeful---- that is a bit of a stretch. It's not a game I'm playing. Just ask yourself what the odds are that a full book of the Bible (The Gospel of Mark) which adds up to 678 TOTAL verses, if you subtract the (12) verses the scholars are "questioning" is 666? 678 - 12 verses = 666. That is far more strange than taking 1+5 and three times. Fish153 is the name I use because my favorite chapter in the Bible is John 21. The Lord instructs the disciples to "cast their net on the right hand side of the boat" and they will catch fish. They pull in exactly 153 fish and none of them is lost--the net does not break. It speaks of election and eternity. That is why I use Fish153---not because of what you can do with the numbers.
 
Free---- I would agree that it is all conjecture. But don't you find it even a bit strange that modern scholars question verses 9-20, and if you remove them, there are a total of 666 verses in the Gospel?
Not at all. Those verses aren't in the oldest manuscripts, which are considered the most accurate, since they have been copied few times, meaning less chance of errors creeping in.

I find it to be very intriguing and strange. The "modern scholars" also question 1 John 5:7 and remove it from that epistle (The KJV retains it). Do these "modern scholars" even know what they are talking about? Yet everyone who reads the NIV or NLT (and others) are made to question verses 9-20 in the Gospel of Mark. I find that to be very strange.
There is nothing strange in that either. 1 John 5:7 isn't completely removed, but it is substantially smaller.

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that testify: (ESV)

The reason is that "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" was likely a marginal text note that a copyist either inadvertently or purposely included in the text. I reject it because it is far too developed doctrinally regarding the Trinity.

It's worth recognizing that many newer versions include notes of these things, so it's not like they're trying to hide anything. They're just being honest about some of the textual issues and difficulties, especially where it is likely an overzealous or somewhat sloppy copyist added something that was never in the originals. We must be honest and actively seek the truth about what the original writings stated if we're going to have an accurate understanding of Scripture.

but it is still very strange that we arrive at the number 666 for total verses if we listen to the "modern scholars".
Not really. It's just one book in the NT and everything stated in verses 9-20 is stated elsewhere in the gospels and or the NT. Besides, as has been stated, all the chapter and verse numbering was some 1,000 years later.
 
Not at all. Those verses aren't in the oldest manuscripts, which are considered the most accurate, since they have been copied few times, meaning less chance of errors creeping in.


There is nothing strange in that either. 1 John 5:7 isn't completely removed, but it is substantially smaller.

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that testify: (ESV)

The reason is that "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" was likely a marginal text note that a copyist either inadvertently or purposely included in the text. I reject it because it is far too developed doctrinally regarding the Trinity.

It's worth recognizing that many newer versions include notes of these things, so it's not like they're trying to hide anything. They're just being honest about some of the textual issues and difficulties, especially where it is likely an overzealous or somewhat sloppy copyist added something that was never in the originals. We must be honest and actively seek the truth about what the original writings stated if we're going to have an accurate understanding of Scripture.


Not really. It's just one book in the NT and everything stated in verses 9-20 is stated elsewhere in the gospels and or the NT. Besides, as has been stated, all the chapter and verse numbering was some 1,000 years later.
Free--- You are entitled to your opinion. But I have done some reading about what these "scholars" call "ancient manuscripts" or "older manuscripts" and why those manuscripts should be trusted. You have bought into it as I can see clearly---and many buy into it easily---accepting what the NIV or NLT say after verse 8 of Mark 16. We just "accept it" and immediately question whether verses 9-20 belong there. No----read up on it. Check it out. These "scholars" have only questioned this in the last 50 years (or less). For hundreds of years Christians have accepted Mark 16 as (20) verses long. It's only recently that this has been brought into question. I don't buy it at all. I believe without a doubt that Mark 16 verses 9-20 BELONG THERE and should never have been questioned, causing Christians to doubt the veracity of scripture.
 
Free--- You are entitled to your opinion. But I have done some reading about what these "scholars" call "ancient manuscripts" or "older manuscripts" and why those manuscripts should be trusted. You have bought into it as I can see clearly---and many buy into it easily---accepting what the NIV or NLT say after verse 8 of Mark 16. We just "accept it" and immediately question whether verses 9-20 belong there. No----read up on it. Check it out. These "scholars" have only questioned this in the last 50 years (or less). For hundreds of years Christians have accepted Mark 16 as (20) verses long. It's only recently that this has been brought into question. I don't buy it at all. I believe without a doubt that Mark 16 verses 9-20 BELONG THERE and should never have been questioned, causing Christians to doubt the veracity of scripture.
Yes, and what you say in all of this strongly sounds like it's coming from KJVOism, which is the most irrational position in all of Christianity. There is absolutely nothing with the removal of Mark 16:9-20 that should cause any Christian "to doubt the veracity of scripture." That type of thing only happens due to ignorance or having been taught incorrect things about Scripture.

Do not presume that just because I disagree with you that I haven't studied the relevant issues involved. The inclusion of these verses adds very little that isn't stated elsewhere. For me, this is not a hill to die on, especially since 666 has nothing to do with it.
 
There are five requirements to Salvation

1. Confession - Acts 2:21; Romans 10:9, 10
2. Repentance - Mark 1:14, 15
3. Faith - John 3:14-18
4. Regeneration - John 3:3-8
5. Holy Scripture - 2 Timothy 3:15

Christian Baptism
1. Commanded by Christ - Matthew 28:19, 20; Mark 16:15, 16
2. Commanded by Peter - Acts 10:44-48
3. Commanded by Christian ministers - Acts 2:1, 41

Places of Baptism
1. Jordan - Matthew 3:13-16; Mark 1:5-10
2. Jerusalem - Acts 2:5, 41 (actually read the whole chapter)
3. Samaria - Acts 8:14-17
4. A house - Acts 10:44-48
5. A jail - Acts 16:25-33

Characteristics of Baptism
1. By water - Acts 10:47
2. Only one - Ephesians 4:5
3. Necessary - Acts 2:38, 41
4. Source of power - Acts 1:5, 8
5. Follows faith - Acts 18:8

Symbolism of Baptism
1. Forecast in prophecy - Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:16-21
2. Prefigured in types- 1 Corinthians 10:2; 1 Peter 3:20, 21
3. Visualized by the Spirit's descent - Acts 2:3, 4, 41; Acts 10:44-48
4. Expressive of Spiritual unity - 1 Corinthians 12:13; Galatians 3:27, 28
5. Figurative of regeneration - John 3:3, 5, 6; Romans 6:3, 4, 11
6. Illustrative of cleansing - Acts 22:16; Titus 3:5
 
How do we know that? God knows EVERYTHING. Did God KNOW that there would be a translation made in 1611 called the King James Bible and that it would be divided into chapters and verses?
Yes. And He knew there would be a Christian Forums on the internet and knew everything Fish153 would write.
So what?
think about it seriously. Please go to this link
No thanks!
 
f you believe everyone must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, yes we are on the same page.
Are you saying "must" as absolutely necessary or maybe "should?"

Joe blow goes up in front of the Church and confesses Christ, then on the way to the baptistry, trips and breaks his neck. Does he go to Hell because he wasn't baptized?
 
Ananias and Sapphira are also good examples of believers taken home by God.
I do not believe they were saved. Paul and John tell me so.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself?

2 Thessalonians 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who will establish you and guard you from the evil one.

1 John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

Again, here we have unconverted people joining the Church and then lying to Peter.
It never even says they were believers. They are only mentioned in 10 verses and it starts out:
Acts 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession.

It doesn't say "a Christian couple did this" or "a believing couple did this" it doesn't even say "a couple from the Church" did this. You have to make them born again believers to fit your theology.
 
No. There is no way to come to that conclusion based on what I said.


And yet you have not only not shown that to be the case, you continue to ignore much of what I have posted.


My reasoning is both scriptural and sound. You haven’t shown otherwise.
I am amazed that you have learned so much, yet still do not understand the simple Plan of Salvation found in Acts 2:38. From my brief interaction with you here, it is evident that you have no hesitation in disregarding Scriptures that do not align with your perspective, simply because 'scholars said' otherwise—hmm. Namely, passages like Mark 16:16, Acts 2:1-4, and Luke 24:47, Acts 10:46-48, Acts 19:5-6. Your reasoning is so far off that it’s not just flawed—it’s completely disconnected from the foundation of biblical truth. At this point, there’s no logical path forward in this discussion unless you're willing to acknowledge what the Word actually says.
 
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