Biblical cessationism

[for_his_glory]

I was in a Bible study once and a girl was crying over something and everyone was praying and people were trying to give advice.
As I prayed, a Bible verse came over me and stayed there.
I didn't know what it said but the verse number stayed with me.
I looked at it, said the Lord has given me a word, I spoke it , and the girl cried out, "that's just what I needed to hear".
For the first time in my life I knew that prophecy to edify the church was real.

That's exactly what prophecy is today is giving a word of knowledge that God has given you to speak to another as God purposes the timing.

 

[for_his_glory]

duplicate

 

[smaller]

If this is a reference to signs, wonders, and miracles, people could not avoid observing them. A genuine healer would walk into a hospital and touch every patient and heal them. This news would be broadcast worldwide in a matter of minutes. That is what happened when Christ healed. The word spread like wildfire, and multitudes came to Him for healing -- AND HE HEALED THEM ALL.

Heb. 4:12 tells us that the Word of God is Alive and Active. Even tells us "how" this is so.

So, cessation? No.

As it pertains to various workings there are multiple forms of workings. There is healing in the natural or physical sense, and there is internal healing. There is external clothing and there is internal clothing. Conversely there is external prison and there is internal prison. There is external blindness and there is spiritual blindness. There are external enemies and internal enemies.

God is quite entirely Alive and Operative, in the now. More ways than I could possibly account.

External healing in every sense of the cases was always only temporary.

MOST of the signs, wonders and miracles we might observe today are of the "inverse" sense. People always think of signs, miracles and wonders only on the 'good' side of the ledgers. There is also an opposite working that has always been much more prevalent.

Yes, there are signs, miracles and wonders of the not so good kind. Believers tend not to even be aware of them because they have no perceptions of what is happening or HOW God Works. Most don't even think of looking that direction. Even when it's obvious believers still won't and can't see it or perceive it.

I could write volumes on this kind of activity that happens, in the now.

 

[Malachi]

That's exactly what prophecy is today is giving a word of knowledge that God has given you to speak to another as God purposes the timing.

If prophecy was identical to the word of knowledge, then they would not be distinguished as separate spiritual gifts in Scripture. Prophecy is ALWAYS words given directly to prophets by Divine inspiration.

 

[Malachi]

Chopper was told by God to lay hands on this women for healing and her faith, not Chopper, made her whole. Chopper was the vessel God used for that particular time.

That is NOT what Chopper said. Please note his words:
One evening at practice, the Lord impressed my heart/mind that If I anointed her with oil and prayed for her, she would be healed of the headaches.

Now please go to James chapter 5 and confirm that Chopper was following the instructions for THE PRAYER OF FAITH. Then go to Acts 3:1-11 and discover what the gift of healing was as exercised by the apostles.

BTW it was not the woman's faith that healed her, but Chopper's prayer of faith. But had Chopper exercised the gift of healing, he would have simply touched her and she would have been healed, regardless of her faith. When the Lord raised up the dead son of the widow of Nain, neither the widow nor her son had any faith. This was a pure miracle. When Christ healed multitudes, the ones who were demon-possessed had no faith, but were delivered completely.

 

[Edward]

...It is my opinion that if there is Scripture that is obsolete, there would be instruction to say so. As far as the gifts and offices of the Church of Jesus Christ go's I go by this....
Ephesians 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,

Now, if someone can show me from Scripture that verse 13 has been fulfilled, they still stand. Just because our leaders of the churches don't believe that the offices and gifts to the churches are not active today, doesn't make it so. I feel that because these have been outlawed in most churches, our churches are weak, ineffective in many ways, very little power of the Holy Spirit, and missing so much of what God has to offer.

That makes so much sense Brother. If anything were to cease...it would tell us so. That is how scripture is written, instructional.

The book of Enoch says that, that book is not for that present generation, but for a distant generation yet to come. Now Enoch isn't scripture, but it's how they wrote back then and the instruction is in it. It would say plainly that gifts were to cease if they were.

It doesn't say gifts will cease. What it does say...is that God doesn't change. It says that God's will is that we are healed.

Matthew 8:2-3

That leper plain out asked Jesus if it was His will that he be healed, would he? "I will" was His answer. It doesn't get much plainer than that. Not, I'll heal you but not your great grandson....but, I will.

If a healer walked into a hospital, he'd touch everyone and heal them, then it'd be all over the news...
Really? I'm sorry Brother, but that's a whole lot of presumptions! Healings happen according to God's will, and we are to believe and have faith. That's how He wants it. He doesn't heal whole hospitals at once, to leave room for testimony and faith. Plenty of people are healed in hospitals. The media doesn't (usually) pick it up because (do I really need to say it?!)...theyre at war with God and don't want truth getting out. Hospital testimonies are out there, but one has to dig for them. They are there. Doctors testifying that, people are cancer free and last trip in they had it bad, a person's medical implants are gone and the doctor who put it in himself looks at their post healing x-rays...and now they're gone...stuff like that. So it does happen. We have to be willing to receive the truth, in faith, that the Lord is our healer.
By His stripes are we healed...except for future generations...uhhh, no.

 

[Chopper]

That makes so much sense Brother. If anything were to cease...it would tell us so. That is how scripture is written, instructional.

The book of Enoch says that, that book is not for that present generation, but for a distant generation yet to come. Now Enoch isn't scripture, but it's how they wrote back then and the instruction is in it. It would say plainly that gifts were to cease if they were.

It doesn't say gifts will cease. What it does say...is that God doesn't change. It says that God's will is that we are healed.

Matthew 8:2-3

That leper plain out asked Jesus if it was His will that he be healed, would he? "I will" was His answer. It doesn't get much plainer than that. Not, I'll heal you but not your great grandson....but, I will.

If a healer walked into a hospital, he'd touch everyone and heal them, then it'd be all over the news...
Really? I'm sorry Brother, but that's a whole lot of presumptions! Healings happen according to God's will, and we are to believe and have faith. That's how He wants it. He doesn't heal whole hospitals at once, to leave room for testimony and faith. Plenty of people are healed in hospitals. The media doesn't (usually) pick it up because (do I really need to say it?!)...theyre at war with God and don't want truth getting out. Hospital testimonies are out there, but one has to dig for them. They are there. Doctors testifying that, people are cancer free and last trip in they had it bad, a person's medical implants are gone and the doctor who put it in himself looks at their post healing x-rays...and now they're gone...stuff like that. So it does happen. We have to be willing to receive the truth, in faith, that the Lord is our healer.
By His stripes are we healed...except for future generations...uhhh, no.

Absolutely right my friend, A Chopper's Home Run for you. I gave a story about a Lady in our Church of whom the Lord asked me to anoint her with oil and pray for her healing of migraine headaches. What I didn't say was she was the assistant to the President of the Bay State Franklin Hospital in Town. She went to her Specialist and told her that she had no more migraines, When asked how? Our Lady told her prayer. The specialist said, "I have forgotten all about the power in prayer."

 

[Edward]

Absolutely right my friend, A Chopper's Home Run for you. I gave a story about a Lady in our Church of whom the Lord asked me to anoint her with oil and pray for her healing of migraine headaches. What I didn't say was she was the assistant to the President of the Bay State Franklin Hospital in Town. She went to her Specialist and told her that she had no more migraines, When asked how? Our Lady told her prayer. The specialist said, "I have forgotten all about the power in prayer."

I've heard a few doctors say, there can be no other answer to what happened today (healing) except a divine miracle, medical science can not explain it...

I remember a testimony about a little old black lady (forget her name)...the Lord told her to take a bus to...another city. She had enough for a one way ticket, but went. When she got off the bus, a cab driver waved her over and said, he's her ride. The Lord had healed through her before, so she figured she must be headed towards a hospital. She was. But to a back door since visiting hours were over. The cabbie told her to go to the third floor (IIRC). When she got off the elevator, the Lord impressed on her to go to a certain room. She did, and knew as soon as she walked in why she was there. Siamese twins were in there, and were scheduled for surgery (tomorrow). The first attempt at separation ever, iirc. Needless to say, the surgery wasn't needed the next morning. The cabbie (??) Took her back to the bus station and handed her a ticket to go home with...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

If prophecy was identical to the word of knowledge, then they would not be distinguished as separate spiritual gifts in Scripture. Prophecy is ALWAYS words given directly to prophets by Divine inspiration.

Then who were the New Testament prophets that Paul was addressing?

 

[Malachi]

If a healer walked into a hospital, he'd touch everyone and heal them, then it'd be all over the news... Really? I'm sorry Brother, but that's a whole lot of presumptions!

Not at all. That is exactly how the gift of healing is revealed in the New Testament (Matthew 4:23-25).
And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people. And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them. And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.

1. Please note the regions mentioned: (1) Galilee, (2) Syria, (3) Decapolis, (4) Jerusalem and Judaea, (5) beyond Jordan. In other words THE WHOLE OF PALESTINE AND BEYOND.

2. Please note: ALL SICK PEOPLE -- "all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments,"

3. Please note: AND HE HEALED THEM -- "and he healed them".

In other words, if the Lord walked into your city (or town) all the hospitals would be emptied by His healing touch. And as far as God's will, Jesus ALWAYS did the Father's will. And there is no mention about whether all had faith or not. Obviously the ones who were demon-possessed and lunatics would not be able to exercise faith. We also see that the apostles were able to heal in a similar fashion.

What concerns me is the amount of misunderstanding and false teaching that we see regarding the sign gifts today (and even on this thread). The gift of healing is certainly not the same as the prayer of faith.

If indeed all the spiritual gifts are operational today, then there should not be a single Bible-believing church without at least one genuine healer.

 

[for_his_glory]

That is NOT what Chopper said. Please note his words:
One evening at practice, the Lord impressed my heart/mind that If I anointed her with oil and prayed for her, she would be healed of the headaches.

Now please go to James chapter 5 and confirm that Chopper was following the instructions for THE PRAYER OF FAITH. Then go to Acts 3:1-11 and discover what the gift of healing was as exercised by the apostles.

BTW it was not the woman's faith that healed her, but Chopper's prayer of faith. But had Chopper exercised the gift of healing, he would have simply touched her and she would have been healed, regardless of her faith. When the Lord raised up the dead son of the widow of Nain, neither the widow nor her son had any faith. This was a pure miracle. When Christ healed multitudes, the ones who were demon-possessed had no faith, but were delivered completely.

I stand corrected by you and I thank you for that and also apologize to Chopper for misquoting what he said.

As for laying hands on others we are instructed to do so in Mark 16:17,18 as these are signs that follow them that believe as they have been baptized in the Holy Spirit and will be saved. If one is not then they are damned. It's not our power to heal, but the power of Jesus that he gives us over the enemy. We are not to glory in ourselves that these spirits are subject to us, but rather rejoice that our names are written in heaven, Luke 10:19,20. It is only by following the will of God that these wonderful works of God are done through us by the power of Jesus as many will will profess doing these type of works, but have never been baptized and are damned already as they work iniquity and Jesus will tell them He never knew them, Matthew 7:21-23. The gift of healing is only given by God for the time and purpose of His ministry as in signs and wonders to those who will believe. There is no such thing as a faith healer as it is our belief in faith that is Christ Jesus that makes us whole again. Why do some who believe get healed while others who believe do not, only God has His reason why and we are not to second guess His reasons.

 

[Malachi]

Then who were the New Testament prophets that Paul was addressing?

They were indeed prophets. If you recall Agabus came to Paul and prophesied concerning his capture and delivery into the hands of the Romans (Acts 21:10-14). He told Paul exactly WHAT THE HOLY GHOST HAD TOLD HIM.

 

[for_his_glory]

Absolutely right my friend, A Chopper's Home Run for you. I gave a story about a Lady in our Church of whom the Lord asked me to anoint her with oil and pray for her healing of migraine headaches. What I didn't say was she was the assistant to the President of the Bay State Franklin Hospital in Town. She went to her Specialist and told her that she had no more migraines, When asked how? Our Lady told her prayer. The specialist said, "I have forgotten all about the power in prayer."

Chopper, I owe you an apology for miss quoting you about the laying on of hands. After I went back and reread your post I see that it was not you, but others who laid their hands on this women........my bad!!!

 

[Wrg1405]

Mark 6:1-6

A Prophet Without Honor
6:1-6pp — Mt 13:54-58
Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.
“Where did this man get these things?” they asked. “What’s this wisdom that has been given him? What are these remarkable miracles he is performing? Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.
Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.” He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. He was amazed at their lack of faith.
Jesus Sends Out the Twelve
6:7-11pp — Mt 10:1, 9-14; Lk 9:1, 3-5
Then Jesus went around teaching from village to village.

 

[Wrg1405]

In other words, if the Lord walked into your city (or town) all the hospitals would be emptied by His healing touch. And as far as God's will, Jesus ALWAYS did the Father's will. And there is no mention about whether all had faith or not

What about?
Mark 6:1-6

A Prophet Without Honor
6:1-6pp — Mt 13:54-58
Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.
“Where did this man get these things?” they asked. “What’s this wisdom that has been given him? What are these remarkable miracles he is performing? Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.
Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.” He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. He was amazed at their lack of faith.

 

[for_his_glory]

Not at all. That is exactly how the gift of healing is revealed in the New Testament (Matthew 4:23-25).
And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people. And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them. And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.

1. Please note the regions mentioned: (1) Galilee, (2) Syria, (3) Decapolis, (4) Jerusalem and Judaea, (5) beyond Jordan. In other words THE WHOLE OF PALESTINE AND BEYOND.

2. Please note: ALL SICK PEOPLE -- "all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments,"

3. Please note: AND HE HEALED THEM -- "and he healed them".

In other words, if the Lord walked into your city (or town) all the hospitals would be emptied by His healing touch. And as far as God's will, Jesus ALWAYS did the Father's will. And there is no mention about whether all had faith or not. Obviously the ones who were demon-possessed and lunatics would not be able to exercise faith. We also see that the apostles were able to heal in a similar fashion.

What concerns me is the amount of misunderstanding and false teaching that we see regarding the sign gifts today (and even on this thread). The gift of healing is certainly not the same as the prayer of faith.

If indeed all the spiritual gifts are operational today, then there should not be a single Bible-believing church without at least one genuine healer.

If you would notice in the scripture you posted Jesus did not go to them, they followed after Jesus bringing the sick to him. Jesus is not going to come to us as no matter where we are, it is we who need to come to Him. There is no genuine healer in any church that can be self professed as it is by the indwelling Holy Spirit that works Christ power through us that does the healing and it is by faith which is Christ Jesus that we are healed if it be Gods will at that particular moment. Only God has His reason why some who have great faith that are not healed and that we have to accept as I have in my own body.
Luke 8:48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.

 

[Chopper]

I've heard a few doctors say, there can be no other answer to what happened today (healing) except a divine miracle, medical science can not explain it...

I remember a testimony about a little old black lady (forget her name)...the Lord told her to take a bus to...another city. She had enough for a one way ticket, but went. When she got off the bus, a cab driver waved her over and said, he's her ride. The Lord had healed through her before, so she figured she must be headed towards a hospital. She was. But to a back door since visiting hours were over. The cabbie told her to go to the third floor (IIRC). When she got off the elevator, the Lord impressed on her to go to a certain room. She did, and knew as soon as she walked in why she was there. Siamese twins were in there, and were scheduled for surgery (tomorrow). The first attempt at separation ever, iirc. Needless to say, the surgery wasn't needed the next morning. The cabbie (??) Took her back to the bus station and handed her a ticket to go home with...

Testimonies like that really bless my heart because many times, the Lord uses a no name person who is so humble and usable. What courage and faith to take a one way ticket. I have an idea that this was not her first rodeo.

About 15 years ago, my Daughter Peggy invited my Wife and I to dinner. Her guests were "Brethren" Christians. She warned me not to get "Pentecostal" because they don't believe in the gifts. The Lord spoke to my heart and said, "do you see that woman?" I looked around and He said, "see how she loves the children?" There on the floor was one of the Brethren Wives playing with several children. The Lord said, "she can't have children, but if you anoint her with oil and pray, I'll give her children."

O my, I remembered what my Daughter warned me about and I knew, this was it. I approached Peggy and told her what the Lord had said. Now, Peggy already knew that the Lord uses her Father like this. She said, "That woman can't have children because of a medical issue." Peggy said that she would speak to the woman and her Husband and see if they are willing.

To make a long story short, they said yes. I asked for others to lay hands on the woman, her Husband did with three other women. I anointed her head with oil, prayed for her and that was it. That couple had come to Peggy's house with the head Elder of their Fellowship and he spoke against what I did and said that divine healing ceased with the Apostles. I didn't see her again.

About 6 or 7 years later, I asked Peggy about the woman I'd prayed for. She told me that because the Elder spoke so many discouraging things about healing that it took a while to undo what he had done. The couple started believing what the Lord had me do and Peggy said, "they have two children now. Hey, Praise the Lord!! Man's unbelief cannot hold back the power of Jesus to heal when and where He wants.

 

[Chopper]

Chopper, I owe you an apology for miss quoting you about the laying on of hands. After I went back and reread your post I see that it was not you, but others who laid their hands on this women........my bad!!!

O that's Ok Glory Girl. I always have others lay hands on folk I pray for in public. That way, the gift of healing can flow thru any one of them and no one knows who. No one is supposed to rob Jesus of the title "healer".

 

[Wrg1405]

Testimonies like that really bless my heart because many times, the Lord uses a no name person who is so humble and usable. What courage and faith to take a one way ticket. I have an idea that this was not her first rodeo.

About 15 years ago, my Daughter Peggy invited my Wife and I to dinner. Her guests were "Brethren" Christians. She warned me not to get "Pentecostal" because they don't believe in the gifts. The Lord spoke to my heart and said, "do you see that woman?" I looked around and He said, "see how she loves the children?" There on the floor was one of the Brethren Wives playing with several children. The Lord said, "she can't have children, but if you anoint her with oil and pray, I'll give her children."

O my, I remembered what my Daughter warned me about and I knew, this was it. I approached Peggy and told her what the Lord had said. Now, Peggy already knew that the Lord uses her Father like this. She said, "That woman can't have children because of a medical issue." Peggy said that she would speak to the woman and her Husband and see if they are willing.

To make a long story short, they said yes. I asked for others to lay hands on the woman, her Husband did with three other women. I anointed her head with oil, prayed for her and that was it. That couple had come to Peggy's house with the head Elder of their Fellowship and he spoke against what I did and said that divine healing ceased with the Apostles. I didn't see her again.

About 6 or 7 years later, I asked Peggy about the woman I'd prayed for. She told me that because the Elder spoke so many discouraging things about healing that it took a while to undo what he had done. The couple started believing what the Lord had me do and Peggy said, "they have two children now. Hey, Praise the Lord!! Man's unbelief cannot hold back the power of Jesus to heal when and where He wants.

Amen to that. Isn't it amazing that when we say "Jesus help me in my unbelief he turns it around?

 

[for_his_glory]

If prophecy was identical to the word of knowledge, then they would not be distinguished as separate spiritual gifts in Scripture. Prophecy is ALWAYS words given directly to prophets by Divine inspiration.

What makes you think prophecy is not all Gods word of knowledge. What is the separation? Those prophets in the OT were given knowledge and so today as it is all knowledge given by God.