Bible Study BLASPHEMY of the HOLY SPIRIT = The Unpardonable Sin??

[JLB]

I'm not a bro and believing IS being saved. Our difference is not in logistics, or the order of salvation it is on WHO does the saving.

Sorry for my oversight of calling you, “bro”.


Jesus does the saving, and we do the believing.




JLB

 

[JLB]

John MaCArthur is neither a Calvinist nor a hard core Calvinist.
He is a Dispensationlist. Just an FYI.

Here’s a screen shot of his bio.





Here’s a screen shot of what a “Reformed Baptist” is -

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Whoa,.. hold the phone and timeout here!! *Blows whistle rather loudly* I don't exactly understand what all is happening here but Boaz, I know from experience that when you seem to be having a disagreement with a person and you're starting to get frustrated and angry with them it's always best not to respond at all and walk away and cool off first.



I've had my differences with JLB in the past, but although I disagree with him at times he is still my brother in Christ that I love and he still seems like a really good guy that means well. So please don't fight, read my second signature again the both of you please. Especially the third part. There are no problems here only solutions.

 

[Boaz]

Whoa,.. hold the phone and timeout here!! *Blows whistle rather loudly* I don't exactly understand what all is happening here but Boaz, I know from experience that when you seem to be having a disagreement with a person and you're starting to get frustrated and angry with them it's always best not to respond at all and walk away and cool off first.



I've had my differences with JLB in the past, but although I disagree with him at times he is still my brother in Christ that I love and he still seems like a really good guy that means well. So please don't fight, read my second signature again the both of you please. Especially the third part. There are no problems here only solutions.

That's what I'm doing, walking away!! But thanks. No culpability in JOB?

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

That's what I'm doing, walking away!! But thanks. No culpability in JOB?

I'm sorry no what?? And yes I know you are now I just meant you should have in the first place without getting all hostile and I'm speaking this out of love because you seem like a really nice lady and I don't like it when you get like that as you're a much better person than that. And I have learning disabilities so a lot of scripture or difficult reading I don't comprehend so that's what I meant just in case you were wondering.

 

[stovebolts]

How does a person become saved, if not by believing the Gospel?

I don't think your question is broad enough.

Why?
First, we know that the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin. If we are not convicted, how would we repent? How would we receive the gospel?

 

[JLB]

If we are not convicted, how would we repent? How would we receive the gospel?

Yes, it happens when a person hears the Gospel, they are convicted by the Spirit and they repent, turn to God.


That’s why the Gospel is the “power of God” unto salvation.


The order of salvation is:


We hear the Gospel and receive faith.

We believe (obey) the Gospel and are saved.


Believing/Obeying -

• with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

as seen in Romans 10:9-10


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10


Some people believe, because they are taught, that we are saved, because we are “predestined to be saved”, and are done so by God’s Sovereignty, in which we are born again, then once we are born again, we now have the capacity to believe the Gospel.


When these people are questioned about their belief, they usually start attacking the person who questions them, thinking they can bully them into submission to their erroneous claims.


When that doesn’t work, they “act offended” and claim they don’t want to talk anymore because the other person is just to dense to understand their doctrine.


It’s not the subject that is disruptive, it’s the people who act this way that are disruptive.



JLB

 

[Boaz]

I'm sorry no what?? And yes I know you are now I just meant you should have in the first place without getting all hostile and I'm speaking this out of love because you seem like a really nice lady and I don't like it when you get like that as you're a much better person than that. And I have learning disabilities so a lot of scripture or difficult reading I don't comprehend so that's what I meant just in case you were wondering.

I wasn't the least bit hostile. How stating why I'm not discussing a topic hostile? Maybe to a whiny baby who can dish it out but not take it. (I am not referring to you HIR). I am an outspoken person. I tell it like it is. I don't coddle and baby someone who repeatedly tells me that I say things I do not say. Over and over and over. Frankly, even you are judging me, saying I ought to be different than I am. It seems like if I get into ANY serious conversation on this site, ANY thing that isn't light and jolly, I get JUDGED and BULLIED where others, doing exactly the same things get a complete pass. I'm pretty sick of it. It is never long, no matter what the thread topic is, if I'm on it, someone will eventually pick a fight with me about what I believe. And then I have to leave the thread.
Usually this will start because someone will ask a question like they sincerely wanted an answer. Only to find out down the line that, no, not what they wanted. They were GOADING me. That is the epitome of insincerity and dishonesty and BULLYING.
But I still love you HIR. ?

 

[for_his_glory]

I refer back to Romans 1:19-20, which I've come to realize we just do not give enough credit to.

Everyone has heard of God, in one way or another. God has always revealed Himself. The American Indian sang to the Great Spirit.

Each man has always had the opportunity to believe in God, this is why each man is without excuse. Romans 1:20b

So, I have to believe that REJECTING the Holy Spirit, Who is God, is the U.S.,,,which is blaspheming the Holy Spirit for rejecting Him.



IF one should fall away, and then want to come back to God...it IS possible. I believe Hebrews 6:4 is taken out of context --- of how Paul (or whoever wrote it) meant this statement.

First of all, yes, Paul probably did not write this epistle.
Secondly, it was addressed to the Jews that had left the religion they knew and grew up with and began to have doubts and wanted to go back to the old ways. This is why it states that they trample Him underfoot,,,verse 29.

Jesus said to forgive 70X7. There is no end to God's forgiveness when we repent and turn away from the evil one. Matthew 18:22

Also, this idea that we cannot repent twice annuls one of the most important parables in the N.T. : The Prodigal Son....who RETURNS to the Father and is found AGAIN. Luke 15:24

This makes a person that has fallen away feel that he cannot return to God... this would be a sad statement indeed.


The first paragraph is very instructive!

As to the second....I can think of one just off-hand that was very mature and yet fell.

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

We can't just read Romans 1:19, 20 without reading the full context of the chapter. One can not reject just part of the Godhead as those in unbelief have rejected all of the Godhead because they will not retain God in their knowledge as they reject Him and for this God gave them over to a reprobate mind because they were full of wickedness. It's a conscious and hardened opposition to the truth because the Spirit of God is truth. Conscious and hardened resistance to the truth leads man away from humility and repentance and without repentance there can be no forgiveness. Because of defiance they refuse to let the Holy Spirit speak to them. The only unpardonable sin is refusing to let God pardon you. God is not going to forgive one of their sin if they reject Him, even if they have heard of Him.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

It is impossible for those who have matured in the word of God to fall away from truth, because if they did than they would have not retained the knowledge given them by the Holy Spirit being the Spirit of truth. This is the same as Hebrews 10:26-30 as it would have to be a conscious and hardened opposition to the truth to willingly sin seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[for_his_glory]

Tempers are starting to flare and judgements against each other are being made. Please step back and take a breath and collect yourselves and respect what others believe even though you do not agree with them.

No need to reply to this.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

I wasn't the least bit hostile. How stating why I'm not discussing a topic hostile? Maybe to a whiny baby who can dish it out but not take it. (I am not referring to you HIR). I am an outspoken person. I tell it like it is. I don't coddle and baby someone who repeatedly tells me that I say things I do not say. Over and over and over. Frankly, even you are judging me, saying I ought to be different than I am. It seems like if I get into ANY serious conversation on this site, ANY thing that isn't light and jolly, I get JUDGED and BULLIED where others, doing exactly the same things get a complete pass. I'm pretty sick of it. It is never long, no matter what the thread topic is, if I'm on it, someone will eventually pick a fight with me about what I believe. And then I have to leave the thread.
Usually this will start because someone will ask a question like they sincerely wanted an answer. Only to find out down the line that, no, not what they wanted. They were GOADING me. That is the epitome of insincerity and dishonesty and BULLYING.
But I still love you HIR. ?

I was going to PM you with this since I saw you messaged me BUT,.. let me ask you and everybody else here one question. Would Jesus call somebody a name just because they misunderstood Him or put words into His mouth? I can tell you no for a definite answer because it happened to Him all the time.



Listen, I can understand you're upset and let me tell you here you certainly aren't alone on this one. In the past I have made mistakes by lashing out at people and showing my anger towards them if they said something that I didn't like, but how is that showing the love of Christ?



There are a lot better ways to prove your point without doing this. As I have stated on here before in a different thread there is absolutely nothing wrong with having different opinions than others or being upset with others.



Language is a funny thing as there are so many different ways to say something, and it's not what you say that often matters, it's how you say it that counts.




I sincerely hope that I didn't offend you or anybody else here as that wasn't my intention. I'm just telling you and everybody else here that you really should start putting WWJ do into action and if you can't say something nice, then it's better not to say anything at all.


God bless! :D

 

[GodsGrace]

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

We can't just read Romans 1:19, 20 without reading the full context of the chapter. One can not reject just part of the Godhead as those in unbelief have rejected all of the Godhead because they will not retain God in their knowledge as they reject Him and for this God gave them over to a reprobate mind because they were full of wickedness. It's a conscious and hardened opposition to the truth because the Spirit of God is truth. Conscious and hardened resistance to the truth leads man away from humility and repentance and without repentance there can be no forgiveness. Because of defiance they refuse to let the Holy Spirit speak to them. The only unpardonable sin is refusing to let God pardon you. God is not going to forgive one of their sin if they reject Him, even if they have heard of Him.

I Agree. I won't go back to see what I wrote to which you're responding the above. I'll only say that those in Romans 1:19-20 were not Jews or Christians (although they could be included) and states simply that man always knew there was a God and had a choice to choose Him and live in His ways,,,or not.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

It is impossible for those who have matured in the word of God to fall away from truth, because if they did than they would have not retained the knowledge given them by the Holy Spirit being the Spirit of truth. This is the same as Hebrews 10:26-30 as it would have to be a conscious and hardened opposition to the truth to willingly sin seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Hebrews 6:4 is speaking to Jews that were thinking of going back to the Law,,,as I previously stated.

Hebrews 10:28-30 is speaking about rejecting the Savior after knowing the truth...this sin will not be covered by Jesus' death.
In this case the Holy Spirit will be insulted and outraged since it is HE that brings God's mercy to people.
Hebrews 10:29

I don't really see in these verses statements about sin...perhaps I overlooked them?

The sinning spoke of in Hebrews 10:26 is the sin of rejecting the Savior.

 

[LovethroughDove]

This is how I'm gonna describe what happened to me.

John 15:16
He was calling me towards himself

The Father revealed Jesus to me
Matthew 16:17

Here is the work we do
John 6:29

This happens when our hearts/minds, believe 100%Jesus is who the Bible says he is and you know he was raised from the dead
John 14:20
Romans 10:9

The Holy Spirit working through the whole process.

 

[GodsGrace]

I was going to PM you with this since I saw you messaged me BUT,.. let me ask you and everybody else here one question. Would Jesus call somebody a name just because they misunderstood Him or put words into His mouth? I can tell you no for a definite answer because it happened to Him all the time.



Listen, I can understand you're upset and let me tell you here you certainly aren't alone on this one. In the past I have made mistakes by lashing out at people and showing my anger towards them if they said something that I didn't like, but how is that showing the love of Christ?



There are a lot better ways to prove your point without doing this. As I have stated on here before in a different thread there is absolutely nothing wrong with having different opinions than others or being upset with others.



Language is a funny thing as there are so many different ways to say something, and it's not what you say that often matters, it's how you say it that counts.




I sincerely hope that I didn't offend you or anybody else here as that wasn't my intention. I'm just telling you and everybody else here that you really should start putting WWJ do into action and if you can't say something nice, then it's better not to say anything at all.


God bless! :biggrin

This is a very nice post HIR.

But let's get on with the thread's topic, which I think is important.
We are all sisters in the Lord !
For you and Boaz

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

This is a very nice post HIR.

But let's get on with the thread's topic, which I think is important.
We are all sisters in the Lord !
For you and Boaz

Agreed. Just a little food for thought for all of us here.

 

[GodsGrace]

This is how I'm gonna describe what happened to me.

John 15:16
He was calling me towards himself

The Father revealed Jesus to me
Matthew 16:17

Here is the work we do
John 6:29

This happens when our hearts/minds, believe 100%Jesus is who the Bible says he is and you know he was raised from the dead
John 14:20
Romans 10:9

The Holy Spirit working through the whole process.

The above is beautifully said LTD,
But the problem, as I see it, is that our words can be mistaken for a meaning other than what you are describing.

For instance...I also feel that Jesus was calling me.
But, theologically speaking....
Was He calling JUST ME....
or does He call everyone and we each must answer for ourselves?

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

And thanks btw.

 

[Serving Zion]

blaspemy is also attributing to satan something that God does

And also vice-versa, which is interesting.

You have been right to distinguish the blasphemy from the sin. Although they were blaspheming The Holy Spirit by blaspheming the spirit by which Jesus did His works, they are not shown as advancing to oppose The Holy Spirit after He warned them. It shows that they were opposing Him personally, but not opposing God (in intention - though in reality we know better because they were deceived).

If they had have been so determined, they would have retorted and so fixed themselves as enemies of the spirit that was working through Him - and we see in fact that Jesus has brought that issue by asking them "by whose spirit do your son's do their works?" - knowing full well that the house they were of is divided and also was divided against Him.

The fact that the spirit doesn't change, and one cannot have a relationship with a spirit unless they are born of the spirit, necessitates that any person blaspheming the spirit of God is fixing themselves into a state of opposing the spirit that is holy.

It is easy for someone to explain their mistake when they realise that they have been wrong about Jesus, by assuming that He is as much a liar or lunatic as they are, because they are seeing him as a human and their idea of human nature is warped by their fallen mind.

However, to say that the Holy Spirit is not holy, is impossible without choosing to say that what is good is bad (in other words, it cannot be done in a blameless way, the only way is to do a culpable sin - the condemnation from which would drive them into hiding from God Himself, not merely the shame of having mistreated an innocent man).

 

[Boaz]

I was going to PM you with this since I saw you messaged me BUT,.. let me ask you and everybody else here one question. Would Jesus call somebody a name just because they misunderstood Him or put words into His mouth? I can tell you no for a definite answer because it happened to Him all the time.



Listen, I can understand you're upset and let me tell you here you certainly aren't alone on this one. In the past I have made mistakes by lashing out at people and showing my anger towards them if they said something that I didn't like, but how is that showing the love of Christ?



There are a lot better ways to prove your point without doing this. As I have stated on here before in a different thread there is absolutely nothing wrong with having different opinions than others or being upset with others.



Language is a funny thing as there are so many different ways to say something, and it's not what you say that often matters, it's how you say it that counts.




I sincerely hope that I didn't offend you or anybody else here as that wasn't my intention. I'm just telling you and everybody else here that you really should start putting WWJ do into action and if you can't say something nice, then it's better not to say anything at all.


God bless! :biggrin

Very good post HIR. I don't remember calling anyone name though. Btw, Jesus wasn't t always sweetness and light. He Brookes no nonsense. He called the Pharisees hypocrites and the sons of Satan. He spoke to people as blind leaders of the blind. He called liars liars. Speaking truth in a forceful and definite way is not calling someone a name. Thanks for the post and the PM.

 

[LovethroughDove]

The above is beautifully said LTD,
But the problem, as I see it, is that our words can be mistaken for a meaning other than what you are describing.

For instance...I also feel that Jesus was calling me.
But, theologically speaking....
Was He calling JUST ME....
or does He call everyone and we each must answer for ourselves?

That is the beauty of God and I think that is where words can have two meanings. I'm not a scholar at all and I love to watch Pastor Melissa Scott only for her knowledge of the languages. In the Greek language, one word can mean a couple things. I know that God does this for a reason.

So to answer you. He was just calling me, but he calls "us" also because there are those he calls. If you hear his voice and you are "his" you will hear.