Bible Study Book of Hebrews

[Nathan]

My apologies guys. I kept myself too busy this weekend. I should have used my time more wisely. I found some other interesting threads and used some of my time in there.

I am on my way to work this morning. When I get there I will share my thoughts. And tomorrow I think we should go ahead and jump into chapter 1. I am too excited to see how this is going to progress. I have gotten a feel for it, and I think that about a week or so is going to be plenty of time.

It might seem like a lot of time to let it go on without moving on, but I think that once we get into the meat of the letter it might seem that it is not enough time. lol.

 

[Nathan]

Re: --Introduction to Hebrews--

*What is the very first thing that hits you when you get to the end of reading it?

*What are some of the things you have always thought about it?

*Who do you think wrote it? (I am not looking for debates on this, just your honest opinion and why, then leave it at that, thanks!)

*Who do you think it is written to?

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The very first thing that hits me when I get done reading it is - WOW! I mean, if the book of Hebrews is missing something about what the "faith" of mankind has been since the beginning, then I have no clue what it is.

What I noticed more than anything is how it describes who the Messiah would be, what He would do, and then packs it all in to who He is. It hit me that this letter is a excellent way for a person to study exactly how God's saving faith has been passed down since the beginning of time, and exactly what it is.

In fact, I would go as far as to say it is an very good summation of the Old Testament and how it all points to One person, Jesus. I think it is also a very good "light" to hold the rest of New Testament teachings up to. In other words, when we have particular opinions about one thing or another as it concerns the Person and Relationship between God and man, and Jesus and man, it would be good to see exactly what Jewish beliefs have always been.

I think that it goes without saying that "Salvation is of the Jews".

Jhn 4:22-26 "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth. "The woman said to him, "I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things. "Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am he."

My first impressions of the book/letter is that it is a great way to fully understand just who the Christ, or Messiah, is.
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Some of the preconceived ideas I had held in the past, not necessarily in the recent past, is that it is a hard book to understand. It was written to Hebrews, lol. It has a lot of contradictions in it. But I have always loved to read chapter 11.
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Just opinion wise I have always thought Paul wrote it. I have never really done that much study into it, but I am always curious what others think. I am not so sure that he indeed is the one who wrote it now though, 13:22-23 somewhat give me pause in the assumption of Paul writing it, and I am not sure why.
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Well, as my preconceived ideas pointed out I had at one time thought that the letter was written to the Hebrews/Jews that were either believers or non-believers trying to be persuaded. I now believe it to be written to all believers, Jew and Gentile, or if you would, the Church. The message written in it is directed at those who have heard the call of God, and have responded.

2:1 "Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it."

3:1 "Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession,"

4:1-2 "Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened."

6:1 "Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,"

12:1-2 "Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God."

Chapter 3, verse 1, is the nail in the coffin for my belief on who this is written too. I laid to rest the idea that the letter was intended for a particular group of believers when I understood this verse.
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And so thats my thoughts. lol. I hope to hear from others on it also. I will post a new set of "questions" to get us thinking tomorrow. But by all mean, please just take the questions as a "spring board" and not the swimming pool you have to stay in. I would like to try and keep it chapter by chapter, it would be easier to stay focused that way I think. But its like I said in the beginning, there are going to be chapter lines that have to be crossed sometimes and I am cool with that.

 

[westtexas]

I'm going to go off on a tangent here and I'm sure that there will be some who disagree. Please let me know what y'all think.

Among other things in Ch. 1 I see a tremendous testimony of 2 parts of the trinity. The English translation of verse 3 "the express image of his person" I believe does no justice to the Greek. The greek word (karakter) is here translated express image. Literally it is translated 1) an engraver, an engraving or stamping instrument or 2) the figure or image made by such an instrument, as on coins, wax, or metals. In Greek literature this word was used when stamping a coin from a die. The Greek word (hupostasis) is here translated person. Literally it is translated "nature" or "being". So our Lord Jesus is an engraving of the nature or being of God. He is "God manifest in the flesh". It brings to mind our Lord's words "I and the Father are one" or "He that hath seen me, hath seen the Father".

In verse 8 God is speaking and He says to the Son "your throne, O God, is forever and ever". Verse 10 says "And, (with the word, and, God is still speaking) "You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of your hands." In these verses we have the testimony of God that not only is Jesus "God" but that He has been here since the beginning and created the heavens. These verses bring to mind Genesis Ch. 1 and the words "Elohim bara". A plural noun used with a singular verb.

So, among other things in this chapter I see displayed 2 parts of the trinity. God the Father and God the Son. Let me know what y'all think. God bless.
Westtexas

 

[Nathan]

--Chapter 1--

Hey I think you are right on. Great studying. You are not going off on a tangent, it deals with chapter 1 and thats where we are so you are right on target. Thanks for the input.

I have been having a hard time really grasping the analogy the writer is addressing here in chapter 1.

Not necessarily what he is saying, but why he is saying it. Then it kind of hit me last night that the writer is making the expressed distinction between the messages God sent in times past, verses how God has chosen to send them now.

It seemed to jump out at me that the whole of the discussion in chapter 1 is an argument made for the superiority of the message given to us by God through Jesus. I guess this is where Jewish history comes into play, but I think that it would be safe to guess that Jewish culture put a extremely high importance on angels.

Which would seem to make sense, seeing how they were God's messengers in times past. While looking into this I started to study all the times when angels would bring messages to the people of God. I found it very, very interesting.

The first record of angels talking to the people as a whole is in Judges chapter 2.

Jdg 2:1-12 "Now the angel of the LORD went up from Gilgal to Bochim. And he said, "I brought you up from Egypt and brought you into the land that I swore to give to your fathers. I said, 'I will never break my covenant with you, and you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall break down their altars.' But you have not obeyed my voice. What is this you have done? So now I say, I will not drive them out before you, but they shall become thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare to you." As soon as the angel of the LORD spoke these words to all the people of Israel, the people lifted up their voices and wept. And they called the name of that place Bochim. And they sacrificed there to the LORD. When Joshua dismissed the people, the people of Israel went each to his inheritance to take possession of the land. And the people served the LORD all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua, who had seen all the great work that the LORD had done for Israel. And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the LORD, died at the age of 110 years. And they buried him within the boundaries of his inheritance in Timnath-heres, in the hill country of Ephraim, north of the mountain of Gaash. And all that generation also were gathered to their fathers. And there arose another generation after them who did not know the LORD or the work that he had done for Israel. And the people of Israel did what was evil in the sight of the LORD and served the Baals. And they abandoned the LORD, the God of their fathers, who had brought them out of the land of Egypt. They went after other gods, from among the gods of the peoples who were around them, and bowed down to them. And they provoked the LORD to anger."

There are many accounts of an angel [we could go off on a tangent here about the connections between the angel and Christ] talking with individuals, but here in judges is when we start to see how the angel(s) interact with the people of God as a whole.

But again, it seems like the point the writer is making is that there there is much more superiority in Jesus verses the angels. I think this is laying a foundation for the coming chapters, because the messages that angels brought were about the first covenant, and the message that Jesus brought was about the second covenant.

What else do you guys see here in chapter 1?

 

[Elijah674]

I'm going to go off on a tangent here and I'm sure that there will be some who disagree. Please let me know what y'all think. ...'

I agree also!;)
The ten commandments that Christ wrote, would even condemn Christ Himself if He were not God, in the first four commandments one sees where WORSHIP can only belongs to GOD! Not angels, not created ones, nor Christ if He WAS & IS not God! Rev. 14:6-7's Everlasting Gospel alone has the universe 'seeing' the worshiping of Christ!

Do we need the WARNING from John's other inspired Words of Rev.'s last few verses of adding to or removing from...! (also note Ecclesiastes 3:14!) Very Dangerous, and FATAL when the 'sin is finished'! James 1:15. (compare the repeat in the Rev. closing verses)

Christ forgave sins! Christ healed the BLIND! (BOTH WAYS!!) Christ RAISED THE DEAD! (BOTH WAYS!!) Only GOD/MAN could do this!! The devil in Matt. 4 requested Christ to fall down and worship him, what was Christ' reply, and where was it written?? It was meant for whom?? Again John had the same testing in his penned book of Revelation 22:8-9 when he fell down at the feet of the angel, as it appears in being awestruck? Anyhow, the message from the angel was a warning not to do so!

He said to John:
".. See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, [and of them that keep the sayings of this book: WORSHIP GOD]." But not Christ?? [CHRIST IS GOD/IN/THE/FLESH!!] Where again does one find the WORSHIP GOD COMMANDMENT? Right back to the Royal Universal Everlasting Covenant That Christ Himself wrote in the ten Commandments of Stone! Heb. 13:20's ETERNAL COVENANT! Christ IS GOD ETERNAL!

Stephen while being stoned to death in Acts 7 was 'filled with the Holy Ghost' and said: "THIS IS HE, THAT WAS [IN] THE CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS].." David stated in Christ's Word, by the Inspiration of the Holy Ghost...
"Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, [THOU THAT LEADEST JOSEPH LIKE A FLOCK; *THOU THAT DWELLEST BETWEEN THE CHERUBIM'S, SHINE FORTH."

It is interesting how any could miss this when reading Prov. 8? See verse 5? "O ye simple, understand wisdom: and ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart." ???
Then comes prophetic wisdom (to be fulfilled!) of the future years to come, & the life of Christ as the SON OF GOD!! Even as a child playing and maturing!

Notice verse 23 for the Godhead's PLAN IN ETERNITY... "I WAS SET UP FROM EVERLASTING, FROM THE BEGINNING, OR EVER THE EARTH WAS." From *EVERLASTING! From before! Or EVER THE EARTH WAS! *BY HIM WERE [ALL] THINGS CREATED, THAT WERE CREATED: THAT ARE IN THE HEAVEN, AND THAT ARE IN THE EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, *WHETHER THEY BE THRONES, OR DOMINIONS, OR PRINCIPALITIES, OR POWERS: *ALL THINGS WERE CREATED FOR HIM AND BY HIM: AND HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS: AND BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST. ... AND IT PLEASED THE FATHER THAT IN HIM SHOULD ALL THE *FULLNESS DWELL." Colossians 1:15-19 in part. And this is BEFORE and AFTER Christ became God/Man!

And here is your thought! The God/Head in their plan not only Prophesied the plan in Proverbs, but told that they would DECLARE THE DECREE!! "I WILL DECLARE THE DECREE: the Lord hath said unto me, [THOU ART MY SON; *THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE]." Psalms 2:7

Then the day came! When did God become the Son of God in actual documentation?

But in Heb. 1:5 it states the time as past/tense setting. Verse 5's last part of the verse it says:
"... THOU ART MY SON, THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE?." There is a question mark there! Read 1-5 for it to be removed!!!

Then there is.. "This is He that was in the CHURCH in the wilderness.." Acts 7:38

"... ignorant ... And drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that *ROCK WAS CHRIST." 1 Cor. 10:1-3 in part.

"Give ear, O Shepard of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubim's, shine forth." Psalms 80:1

[*NOTICE] "Jesus Christ the *SAME YESTERDAY, and TODAY, [[and FOREVER]]. (Everlasting Gospel & Everlasting Covenant) IMMORTAL with no starting point!!!
1 Tim. 6:14-16, 1 Tim. 1:15-17, Heb. 1:8

Be [NOT CARRIED ABOUT WITH DIVERS AND STRANGE DOCTRINES."] Hebrews 13:8, 9. This is [the Doctrine of Christ]! Again 2 John 9-11.

"Thou, even Thou, ART LORD ALONE; Thou hast made heaven, the heaven OF HEAVENS, with ALL THEIR HOST, the earth, and ALL THINGS that are therein, ... and Thou Preservest them ALL; and the HOST OF HEAVEN *WORSHIPETH THEE. Nehemiah 9:6 (me too!)

... Moreover THOU leddeth them in the day by a cloudy pillar; and in the night by a pillar of fire, ...Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spaketh with them from heaven, AND GAVETH THEM RIGHT JUDGEMENTS, AND TRUE LAWS, GOOD STATUES *AND COMMANDMENTS. (plural!) AND *MADEST KNOWN UNTO THEM [THY] HOLY SABBATH, (No plural!) and commandest them [precepts, statutes, *and laws, (plural) and BY THE HAND OF MOSES thy servant.." Nehemiah 9:12,14. (Deuteronomy 31:9 Moses wrote this law in a book! see following verses Deuteronomy 31:24-26 for their placement in the *side of the Ark)

And note Col. 1:13-19 "For by Him were CREATED ALL THINGS .... AND [HE WAS *BEFORE ALL THINGS ..." ]

AGAIN DEAR FRIEND, (S?) ETERNAL CHRIST GOD, JEHOVAH GOD, HOLY SPIRIT GOD! That IS THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL & THE EVERLASTING COVENANT OF THE ONE GOD, GODHEAD.

Some come close to understanding Their Truth, yet, two of the above do have an image that we were originally created like, & the other is called by Himself as Holy Spirit, and Holy Ghost, that we also are 'required' to take part with! John 3:3

---Elijah

 

[lovely]

Coming in late...

My daughter (age 8) and I are attending a conference, and Hebrews is the study topic. So, I began a study with my children just this week. I am so grateful already to read some of the replies...it's a blessing to study the Word with other believers!

*What is the very first thing that hits you when you get to the end of reading it?

Well, even though I am not Jewish, and do not have a full understanding of things Jewish from a cultural perspective, I did feel like Hebrews is sort of like placing the final puzzle piece in place. The picture is complete, and it's Jesus.

*What are some of the things you have always thought about it?

I have always loved chapter one, because it speaks so clearly about Christ being God, the final Revelation, and it exalts Him in such a beautiful and careful way. Wonderful!!! I also felt like that even though it was meant to show Jewish believers that their faith and tradition has all neen a flashing arrow pointing to Christ, that it has helped me undertand more about the beginnings of my faith, which started with Christ and sort of worked it's way back to it's Jewish roots and a fuller understanding of my God. Pretty neat.

*Who do you think wrote it? (I am not looking for debates on this, just your honest opinion and why, then leave it at that, thanks!)

I think that God wrote it. It seems like Hebrews is meant to exalt Christ alone, and so it makes sense that God has not revealed this information to us. I'd rather not add.

*Who do you think it is written to?

I think it is written to all believers ultimately, but that it was specifically a letter to the Hebrews and should be read in that context.

 

[Nathan]

--Chapter 1--

Coming in late...

I have always loved chapter one, because it speaks so clearly about Christ being God, the final Revelation, and it exalts Him in such a beautiful and careful way. Wonderful!!! I also felt like that even though it was meant to show Jewish believers that their faith and tradition has all neen a flashing arrow pointing to Christ, that it has helped me undertand more about the beginnings of my faith, which started with Christ and sort of worked it's way back to it's Jewish roots and a fuller understanding of my God. Pretty neat.

I think that God wrote it. It seems like Hebrews is meant to exalt Christ alone, and so it makes sense that God has not revealed this information to us. I'd rather not add.

Hey. This is a quite informal study. Your not late. Come in anytime. I like your comment on how it has helped you understand your 'roots'...lol. Paul made mention that the Jews had an 'advantage' over us in this aspect. And you are quite right. This book does intertwine their belief makeup. Good stuff.

Your right. God did write it. And it is interesting that we indeed do not have an specific author for this letter...

 

[Elijah674]

Coming in late...

My daughter (age 8) and I are attending a conference, and Hebrews is the study topic. So, I began a study with my children just this week. I am so grateful already to read some of the replies...it's a blessing to study the Word with other believers!

*What is the very first thing that hits you when you get to the end of reading it?

Well, even though I am not Jewish, and do not have a full understanding of things Jewish from a cultural perspective, I did feel like Hebrews is sort of like placing the final puzzle piece in place. The picture is complete, and it's Jesus.

*What are some of the things you have always thought about it?

I have always loved chapter one, because it speaks so clearly about Christ being God, the final Revelation, and it exalts Him in such a beautiful and careful way. Wonderful!!! I also felt like that even though it was meant to show Jewish believers that their faith and tradition has all neen a flashing arrow pointing to Christ, that it has helped me undertand more about the beginnings of my faith, which started with Christ and sort of worked it's way back to it's Jewish roots and a fuller understanding of my God. Pretty neat.

*Who do you think wrote it? (I am not looking for debates on this, just your honest opinion and why, then leave it at that, thanks!)

I think that God wrote it. It seems like Hebrews is meant to exalt Christ alone, and so it makes sense that God has not revealed this information to us. I'd rather not add.

*Who do you think it is written to?

I think it is written to all believers ultimately, but that it was specifically a letter to the Hebrews and should be read in that context.

1Cor.10

[1] Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
[2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
[3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
[4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
[5] But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
[6] Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
[7] Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
[8] Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
[9] Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
[10] Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
[11] Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

I try to not pay to much attention to the pinman of the Word. (as 'i' see it) John 1:1-3 + ibid. 14
--Elijah

 

[Nathan]

--Chapter 1--

Welcome aboard Elijah! Glad to have you.

You bring up excellent thoughts. I was just having a discussion with someone else, well kind of anyways, and we both mentioned something about the trinity. How some people just do not understand it.

I appreciate it when people are honest about not understanding it instead of just pretending like they do. But this might help us better understand. Even though chapter 1 does not mention the Spirit, as we will see chapter 2 does. I am excited because when you put 1 & 2 together....well...you have 3. lol

Hey...that was not intended...it just worked out that way. The point is, it is hard to wrap our minds around the concept of 3 in 1, but I think that maybe this study will also help out in that arena. I am not excusing the fact that some people flat out deny the trinity. Just simply that there are those who just do not fully understand it.

Those who are older and more mature in the Faith are to be patient with those who are younger and immature...without compromising the Faith.

1 Th 5:14 "And we urge you, brothers, admonish the idle, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with them all."

 

[nmwings]

Indeed the Book of Hebrews is penned very beautifully and there is much comfort and teaching within its pages. However, there are also many places where falsehood has been mixed into it, which has led many astray over the centuries. This falsehood is the basis for Replacement Theology, which teaches that the church has replaced the Jews as God's holy people, has swept away the need for God's altar, changed the priesthood, and shunned the commandments. In this post I will only address the priesthood for the sake of keeping it short. If this forum is willing to hear the truth, I will address the altar on another post. The King James Version was the first "mass produced" translation of the Bible, printed in 1611. During this period of time, the Catholic Church was extremely anti-semitic. Thus, much of the Bible's "Jewishness" had been altered in order to fit the doctrine and authority of the church. But this historical fact goes beyond the scope of this topic. I just wanted to remind you of this prior to delving into the Book of Hebrews. Please also note that I use Messiah's real name, Yeshua (which means "salvation" in Hebrew) and not the English nickname 'Jesus' (which means nothing.)

To refresh our knowledge about the nature of God:
1 Cor 14:33 "for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the congregations of the righteous."
Wherever there is confusion, know and understand it comes from the enemy, NOT from God!

In Hebrews, the confusion begins in 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."

But, in contrast, God tells Jeremiah there will NEVER be a change!
Jer 33:17-18 "For thus says the Lord, 'David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel; and the Levitical priests shall never lack a man before Me to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings and to prepare sacrifices continually."
And the Lord goes even further by telling Malachi that such a change is corruption!
Mal 2:9 "But you have departed from the way; you have caused many to stumble at the law; you have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the Lord of hosts."

Did the Lord lie to these prophets? Did the Lord suddenly change his mind?
Heb 13:8 "Yeshua the Messiah is the same yesterday and today and forever." Since the Lord does not speak falsehood, and does not change, this doctrine of changing the priesthood is FALSE - a lie!

But lets continue with the next few verses:
Heb 7:13-14 "For the one concerning whom these things are spoken (Yeshua) belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood." This part is true. God did not show this to Moses but instead, He revealed it to Isaiah in 11:1 "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots." This part is not new to us. (Or shouldn't be anyway!)

But this is where it starts to get sticky again:
Heb 7:11 "Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?" The problem here is whoever wrote this (or more likely translated it) did not realize that Yeshua IS from the tribe of LEVI as well... through Mary, His mother! Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist, was a Levite!
Luke 1:5 "In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zachariah, of the division of Abijah; and he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth."
Luke 1:36 "And, behold, even your cousin Elizabeth, she has also conceived a son in her old age.."

Now that we understand that Yeshua comes from BOTH Judah and Levi, what is the difference between the Levitical priesthood and that of Melchizedek? Hebrews does a wonderful job of explaining this in 7:1-3 and 23-24:
"For this Melchizedek, (in Hebrew "Melech-tzaddik"..." melech" means "king" and "tzaddik" means "righteous" or "righteousness" which translates as "Righteous King" or "King of Righteousness") king of Salem, (in Hebrew "Shalom" means "peace." Put it together and it says "For this Righteous King, the King of Peace,") priest of the Most High God...Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually......The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing, but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently."

From this we learn that during the days of Abraham, the model of the Levitical priesthood was already here on the Earth. But did the Levitical priesthood replace that of Melchizedek? Scripture clearly says NO since it will continue in the millinium and we will also be serving in the Temple. Rev 1:6 "and He has made us kings and priests..." So if the only difference between the two priesthoods rest solely on who holds the position of the High Priest, what other "change in the law" is there? Absolutely NONE whatsoever! As Yeshua said in Mat 5:18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."
Since Heaven and Earth are still here, the marriage covenant between God and Israel is still in effect. In fact, God swore He would never break that covenant. Judges 2:1 "Now the angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim. And he said, "I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land which I have sworn to your fathers; and I said, 'I will never break My covenant with you."

Obviously, this is not an exhaustive study on this subject, but it should be enough to wake you up to the fact that we cannot take "scripture as Gospel" so to speak. We must compare the teachings of the "New" Covenant (which is not new, but RENEWED) with the teachings of the "Old." We must understand that if there is conflict between them, therein lies the enemy. Which is why we are told in 2 Tim 2:15, "Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

 

[Nathan]

Thanks for joining us, but we have only broached the first chapter...lol. You are already in chapter 7...lol. But when we get there this will be fascinating to study with you on board. For now, for the sake of keeping things orderly and not confusing, lets stick with chapter one and then starting Tuesday move on to chapter 2.

Thanks again nmwings

 

[Elijah674]

Thanks for joining us, but we have only broached the first chapter...lol. You are already in chapter 7...lol. But when we get there this will be fascinating to study with you on board. For now, for the sake of keeping things orderly and not confusing, lets stick with chapter one and then starting Tuesday move on to chapter 2.

Thanks again nmwings

Now, I would not want to do that. But I had always believed the whole Word of God was to be used for study. Matt. 4:4 + 2 Tim. 3:16-17 along with how to study in Isa. 28. So I will just let you
stay unconfused? ---Elijah

[8] For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

[9] Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
[10] For precept [must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:]

 

[westtexas]

Thanks for joining us, but we have only broached the first chapter...lol. You are already in chapter 7...lol. But when we get there this will be fascinating to study with you on board. For now, for the sake of keeping things orderly and not confusing, lets stick with chapter one and then starting Tuesday move on to chapter 2.

Thanks again nmwings

I mean no offense with this response so I hope none is taken! I have been studying this letter since the 21st when we started this thread. When nmwings replied, there had not been a post in this thread for 3 days. Chapter 1 or Chapter 13--I was glad to see something different.
Looking forward to Chapter 2 tomorrow!
Westtexas

 

[Nathan]

I mean no offense with this response so I hope none is taken! I have been studying this letter since the 21st when we started this thread. When nmwings replied, there had not been a post in this thread for 3 days. Chapter 1 or Chapter 13--I was glad to see something different.
Looking forward to Chapter 2 tomorrow!
Westtexas

No offense taken! lol. I understand what you are saying. And I too was pleased to see the new post. And quite frankly I think it is a very interesting post as well. But I just did not want this to get going off in another direction. I will be more than happy to repost his post when we get to chapter 7, or, if it deals with anything else in the coming chapters.

I just did not see how it related to chapter 1. I know, I know...we can make this thing too rigid or else people will not want to join. I am just trying to keep it somewhat organized is all. If the post dealt with chapter 2 or even 3, then maybe it would not have hurt to go off on that tangent. I am by no means trying to 'rule the roost' on this thread, I just want to keep it going in a straight direction of going through the letter as it was written.

There may be others out there, (I hope ), that will come and go once a week or so at least, and if they came on and saw that we were discussing things in chapter 7 it might throw them off. Not only that, but they might not want to share what they had been studying all that week.

But again, trust me, no offense taken, and I agree with you 100%!

 

[Nathan]

--Chapter 2--

Shall we move on? Chapter 2. My oh my what a lot there is in this chapter!

I have been on a personal exploration of my Faith for some time now. In recent days it has been condensing and concentrating. I have been throwing out the 'garbage' and have been taking in some real treasures.

I say all of that to say this; I am not sure what to say about chapter 2. But, I think that we should just read it for what it is and then take the precepts out and look at what the writer is conveying to those who would read this.

What I see at first glance is something interesting in verse 5.

"Now it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come, of which we are speaking."

So here is our first indication of what the intent of this letter is. To 'speak' of the world to come. It is also indicated in one other spot I know of off the top of my head, at the end of chapter 11.

I found this interesting though.

 

[Nathan]

I am going to have to go ahead and post something else. I do not want to take away from a group effort of study, but I need to go ahead and put this out there.

Verse 1, really states the intent of the entire letter, along with verse 5. It is because we know that this world is just a temporary place, we must understand that what we do here effects eternity, and the very fact that the world to come is what our focus should be on. Both admonishments are carried out through the entire letter. Even to the last chapter.

Hbr 13:9 "Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, which have not benefited those devoted to them."

Hbr 13:14 "For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come."

 

[stovebolts]

Hebrews 1:4

Hi Nathan,

Hebrews 1:4So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
5For to which of the angels did God ever say,
"You are my Son; today I have become your Father?


The funniest thing happened this weekend I was studying Exodus 23 20 "See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared. 21 Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him.

The place that I have prepared is in reference to the Tabernacle, which is a copy of heavenly things which themselves point to heavenly things. The story in itself (through verse 26) is a repeat of the creation account. What I wuold like to explore is "But to whome of God's messengers has God given the authority to forgive sins, and to whome of God's messengers is God's Name in him?"

Ironically the Jews believe the Angel spoken to in Exodus is the Angel Metatron who we first see in Genesis 16:7 and again as it relates to Exodus in Joshua 5:13-15. But speaking of God's name being in him (Metatron), the Hebrew numerical value of Metatron's name is 314. In comparison, what is translated into english as God Almighty is El Shaddai. Shaddai also takes on the numerical value of 314. Thus we have an ancient thought within Hebrew theology which connect the two.

What's ironic about this, is the name El Shaddai is viewed in Hebrew scripture as the great shepherd who protects and guides His flock which David echo's by way of example in 1 Sam 17:34-36.

This brings me back to Joshua 5:13-15 as the Angel of the Lord to whom God's name is in, as well as the authority to forgive sins, is is bringing God's people into the land he's promised on oath to Abraham, as well as causing them to be fruitful and multiply (Ex. 23:30).

This, I believe is the starting point for the Hebrew writer who looks back to things which in turn point forward to Christ.

 

[Nathan]

This brings me back to Joshua 5:13-15 as the Angel of the Lord to whom God's name is in, as well as the authority to forgive sins, is is bringing God's people into the land he's promised on oath to Abraham, as well as causing them to be fruitful and multiply (Ex. 23:30).

Me likes!!! Think about that for a minute. I am not sure if you meant it that way, but just as the 'Angel' led them, the greater one that lives in each of us leads us.

People often think that because the Holy Spirit has come that now we are 'in' the promised land. When it still awaits us, and is one of the reasons for this letter, I believe anyways.

But yes, indeed, it does seem like he was making a direct correlation between them and us. We are still traversing through this wilderness called life as we know it. He is still leading and guiding us. If they listened to the angel when he spoke, how much more should we listen to the Spirit when He speaks?

Very nice Jeff.

 

[Nathan]

I have to admit that I have been sidetracked off this because of other topics that have arose that are near and dear to my heart. But I am looking forward to moving on into chapter 3. I wish I could get more people to chime in on chapter 2. There is a lot more to be understood in there I think.

 

[stovebolts]

Thanks Nathan. I enjoy reading your thoughts too.

Actually, if you think big enough, there is much more to what I've posted but yes, what you caught was certainly a large portion of it.

Again, thanks for this study. :waving