Book of Life

[XTruth]

Preterist Don Preston came to this conclusion of the term "The Book of Life":

"Isaiah 2-4 describes the Day of the Lord as a time when the wicked would flee--patently this cannot be any so-called end of time scenario! Jesus cited Isaiah to describe the events of his coming in 70 AD.

Daniel 7 speaks of the coming of the Son of Man on the clouds. It would be a coming when the persecutor of God's people would be judged. This judgment would be in the days of the Roman Empire. That judgment would result in glory for the saints and glorification of the Son.

Daniel 12 predicted the time of the end. It would be the time of unparalleled tribulation, the deliverance of those written in God's book, the resurrection, the Abomination of Desolation. All would be fulfilled when the power of the holy people was completely shattered. Jesus cites Daniel 12 two times in Matthew 24 and says those events would be fulfilled in his coming in the judgment of Israel in that generation.

Malachi also predicted the salvation of those written in the book. That salvation would come when the Sun of Righteousness would arise. This would be a day of blessing to them but a Day of burning and judgment for the wicked. It would be the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord that John the Immerser speaking four hundred years later said was imminent.

Finally, the Apocalypse speaks of the salvation of the remnant, the judgment of Old Israel, the coming of the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord. The Apocalypse also says in the clearest of terms that that awesome Day was at hand and would come quickly.

ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS TO BE OPENED WHEN THE MESSIAH CAME IN JUDGMENT AGAINST ISRAEL. AT THAT TIME SALVATION FOR THE REMNANT WOULD BE PERFECTED, ISRAEL'S SIN WOULD BE CLEANSED, THE GENTILES WOULD ENTER FULLY INTO THE SALVATION THAT IS "OF THE JEWS", [the mystery of God would be complete, Rev. 10:7]. THE MESSIANIC KINGDOM WOULD STAND PERFECTED AND ALL MEN COULD ENTER THE BLESSINGS OF THE KINGDOM AND PARTAKE OF THE LIFE THEREIN. Because of the unity of concepts, because of the time limitations in all these passages we are forced to conclude that the Great throne judgment of Revelation 20, when the book of life would be opened, occurred at the coming of the Lord in judgment against Israel in 70 AD."

Bubba

“1. Another book which Enoch wrote for his son Methuselah and for those who will come after him, and keep the law in the last days. 2. Ye who have done good shall wait for those days till an end is made of those who work evil; and an end of the might of the transgressors. 3. And wait ye indeed till sin has passed away, for their names shall be blotted out of the book of life and out of the holy books, and their seed shall be destroyed for ever, and their spirits shall be slain, and they shall cry and make lamentation in a place that is a chaotic wilderness, and in the fire shall they burn; for there is no earth there. 4. And I saw there something like an invisible cloud; for by reason of its depth I could not look over, and I saw a flame of fire blazing brightly, and things like shining mountains circling and sweeping to and fro. 5. And I asked one of the holy angels who was with me and said unto him: 'What is this shining thing? for it is not a heaven but only the flame of a blazing fire, and the voice of weeping and crying and lamentation and strong pain.' 6. And he said unto me: 'This place which thou sees--here are cast the spirits of sinners and blasphemers, and of those who work wickedness, and of those who pervert everything that the Lord hath spoken through the mouth of the prophets--(even) the things that shall be. 7. For some of them are written and inscribed above in the heaven, in order that the angels may read them and know that which shall befall the sinners, and the spirits of the humble, and of those who have afflicted their bodies, and been recompensed by God; and of those who have been put to shame by wicked men: 8. Who love God and loved neither gold nor silver nor any of the good things which are in the world, but gave over their bodies to torture. 9. Who, since they came into being, longed not after earthly food, but regarded everything as a passing breath, and lived accordingly, and the Lord tried them much, and their spirits were found pure so that they should bless His name. 10. And all the blessings destined for them I have recounted in the books. And he hath assigned them their recompense, because they have been found to be such as loved heaven more than their life in the world, and though they were trodden under foot of wicked men, and experienced abuse and reviling from them and were put to shame, yet they blessed Me. 11. And now I will summon the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of light, and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who in the flesh were not recompensed with such honour as their faithfulness deserved. 12. And I will bring forth in shining light those who have loved My holy name, and I will seat each on the throne of his honour. 13. And they shall be resplendent for times without number; for righteousness is the judgement of God; for to the faithful He will give faithfulness in the habitation of upright paths. 14. And they shall see those who were, born in darkness led into darkness, while the righteous shall be resplendent. 15. And the sinners shall cry aloud and see them resplendent, and they indeed will go where days and seasons are prescribed for them.â€Â


Woe to the sinners. If you are one, yet believe in Christ, then repent. This is the 108th and the last chapter in the book of Enoch. He proves the book of life is not a book for israel, but for all men to be written in who have been found to be such as loved heaven more than their life in the world...walking upright and faithful...not in sin as the sinner. The book of Enoch was written long before Israel existed. He also confirms the truth of what Moses thought (Ex.32:32) and what God said to be true, that anyone who was righteous, yet sins, will be blotted out of His book where the righteous are written (Ex.32:33; Eze.18:24-26; Rom.1:29-32; 6:16-23; 8:12-13; 1 Cor.3:16-17; 6:9-10; Gal.5:19-21; 6:7-8; Eph.5:3-7; Jas.1:13-15; 1 Jn.3:4-10; Rev.21:8).

 

[XTruth]

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Tell me, does a non-believer ever have their names written in the book of life? Then how could they have any part of the book of life? Does all of man-kind have a part in the book of life? Then how could their part be taken away if they never had a part?
This goes side by side with how ludicrous it is to believe one was never in Christ who has strayed from being in Christ; or how do you stop abiding, continuing, or enduring if you were never born again in the first place? Or even how is it possible to be cut away from the Vine if you were never part of the Vine? Is everyone started out as in the Vine just like everyone would have to be starting out written in the book of the righteous? Your pointing out that they must of never really been saved when it is clear that they had to be is a crime against common sense and the words of the Holy Spirit, b/c you are forced to contort and complicate Scripture every where in order to hold to your doctrine when the gospel of Christ is simple (2 Cor.11:3), but even that verse that says it is simple also makes clear that righteous beings can fall away by being deceived. You've even complicated the clearness of the verse that says it is simple. If every book was read like you read the Bible, then it would be debated that the great white whale in Moby Dick was not really a whale at all.

Answer the bold-faced words please. I'm not sure if I even want to step into another thread of yours that hurts me at every post by the lies you believe and teach and are supported by the leaders of this "Christian forum."

I'm sorry, I didn't specify; Solo, this is for you or Charles Stanley. Whoever has the answer that would clear up the clear.

 

[Solo]

Those in Christ have their names written in the book of life; those outside of Christ do not.

 

[Cornelius]

Revelation 3:5 is another verse that impacts this issue. “He who overcomes . . . I will never blot out his name from the book of life.†The “overcomer†mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: “Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world.†And verse 5: “Who is he that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.†(See also 1 John 2:13.) All believers are “overcomers†in that they have been granted victory over the sin and unbelief of the world

Wow, this sure is a different picture of the one we are seeing today , is it not. You mean the church as we know it today is filled with people who are walking in victory over sin and unbelief.
Surely you are mixing up what we have received by faith , with what we have with manifestation?

The church today confess " We are SINNERS saved by grace" ...clinging onto their sin .........surely they are not the picture of :"victory over sin and unbelief" as you say they are.

What you have received by faith , is manifested by the overcomer.


You should read those scriptures you are quoting , because they are full of wisdom............ Who is born of God ?

C

Are churches born again, or are individuals born again? Only individuals that believe are born again while those who do not believe remain condemned. The penalty of ALL of the sins of those born again has been paid, and all who are born again have eternal life and will NEVER perish according to Jesus Christ our LORD and SAVIOR.

Jesus said, "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one." (John 10:26-30)

Except these:

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, (Notice they call Him Lord ) shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Cornelius,

You need to read the Scriptures a little more closely. Notice that Jesus tells those who call Him Lord, Lord that He NEVER knew them. They were NEVER born again.

• 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23

Or these:2Pe 2:1 But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers,(on our pulpits) who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, (they preach) denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. ....................... spots and blemishes, revelling in their deceivings while they feast with you; (They feat with us, they are in our congregations)

These false prophets are just that, false believers. They were not born again, and were already condemned. Why were they not born again? Because they denied Jesus Christ who died for all who are condemned. Only those who believe are born again, and those false prophets of 2 Peter 2 were not born again.

and these:

1Co 13:3 And if I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profiteth me nothing.

And those who are born again have the love of God living within them; and they walk accordingly. Those who are born again have Jesus Christ as their propitiation for their sin, and He is within them. Those who are not born again remain in the darkness until they too believe to be born again.

• 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. 9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:1-11

And of course those who receive the mark of the Beast.........

Those who are born again will not worship the beast and his image, AND receive his mark. Only those who are not sealed with the Holy Spirit after having been born again will fit into this category.

• 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Revelation 14:9-11

And those who do not endure to the end..........

All who are born again are in Christ Jesus, and will endure till the end. Read Matthew 24 in context.

Dr Lloyd Olson who wrote, "Only shoddy exegesis and ignorance of context would take a passage about the end times given solely and specifically to national Israel and twist it into a present fear of personal loss of salvation. Fear and ignorance are some of Satan's most powerful tools!" He also states concerning this verse and those that teach that it must mean loss of salvation: "This is a clear case of violently wrenching the verse out of text and forcing one's opinions upon God's Word."

And those who do not take up their cross.........

All who are born again take up the cross for it is that cross that their sins are nailed to for the eternal life given to them.

• 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Colossians 2:13-15

And those who count anything higher that Jesus..........

All who are born again do not place anything higher than Jesus when they walk in the Spirit; however, when they walk in the flesh, they do. Isn't it great to know that God would give His only begotten Son to sinners so that when they believe in His Son, they would have nothing at all keeping them in bondage to the flesh that was crucified with Christ Jesus!!! Praise God for His Grace and Love!

• I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20
  
  And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Galatians 5:24

And those who would blaspheme the Holy Spirit.......

Those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit have rejected the Word of God, and have never been born again. The Holy Spirit is permanently given to those who are born again, and He dwells within every believer sealing them until the day of redemption.

And those who persist in willful sin................

The new creature that is born of God when one believes cannot sin; and the flesh is crucified in Christ.

• Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9

And those who do not bear fruit............

Those that do not bear fruit are not attached to the root. Jesus Christ is the root and the branches are those who are born again. Any branch that does not bear fruit is not abiding in Christ Jesus and Christ Jesus is not abiding in them. In order to abide in Christ and Christ abide in you, you must be born again.

• 1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. John 15:5

• 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:20-23

There are much more, but this will be enough for now.

C

There are absolutely no verses of Scripture that show that the Salvation that is given to those who are born again can be lost through the acts of the flesh. No one, having been born of God will suffer His wrath be condemned according to the Scriptures.

Solo, its because you are seeing the born again experience as a one off experience and not as an ongoing experience.

We need to see the church for what it is. Not all who are sitting in the pews and call themselves Christians are going to make it. Only those who produce the fruit of salvation. God is coming for the fruit. He continuously mentions this and we are ignoring this at our own peril.

Many have started this road and have started the born again experience. But the Bible is clear that they are tares. Tares are IN the kingdom, not outside.They get to fall away, like Judas.
[/quote]
There are absolutely no verses of Scripture that show that the Salvation that is given to those who are born again can be lost through the acts of the flesh. [/quote]

There is nothing further from the truth.What you are preaching is dangerous.


C

 

[Solo]

There are absolutely no verses of Scripture that show that the Salvation that is given to those who are born again can be lost through the acts of the flesh. No one, having been born of God will suffer His wrath be condemned according to the Scriptures.

Solo, its because you are seeing the born again experience as a one off experience and not as an ongoing experience.

We need to see the church for what it is. Not all who are sitting in the pews and call themselves Christians are going to make it. Only those who produce the fruit of salvation. God is coming for the fruit. He continuously mentions this and we are ignoring this at our own peril.

Many have started this road and have started the born again experience. But the Bible is clear that they are tares. Tares are IN the kingdom, not outside.They get to fall away, like Judas.

There is nothing further from the truth.What you are preaching is dangerous.


C

Cornelius,
Not all who are sitting in the pews and call themselves Christians are going to make it. Only those who have been born of God produce fruit; and all who are born of God will enter the kingdom of God. All who are born of God will enter the kingdom of God for they are no longer condemned. When Jesus returns, He will gather those who have been born again and leave those who have not been born again.

Those who have practiced the religious activity required in many denominations believe they are going to enter the kingdom of God because they have obeyed the Magisterium of their denomination apart from being born again through the Spirit.

The teachings of infant baptism being the born again experience needed to bring one into the kingdom of God is more dangerous than teaching that one who is born of God is eternally secure in Jesus Christ as the Holy Spirit seals such a one with the promise until the day of redemption.

The danger is that many are told that they must work works according to their effort in order to be saved, instead of teaching them that they must believe in Jesus Christ and His work in order to be saved; after which follows good works initiated by God Himself. The reason that you see watered down, lukewarm Christianity today is because many go out and sin, sin, sin just to come back into the "church" to be forgiven so that they can go out to sin and sin some more. The reason that they go out and sin and sin and sin is because they have not been born again and have not the Holy Spirit dwelling within them.

The teaching of Conditional Salvation will send more folks to hell than the teaching that all who are born again can rest in the eternal security of God's provision.

Who sins more, born again believers or unbelievers?

Who sins more, unbelievers who believe that they must follow the restraints placed upon them by the Conditional Salvation teachings, or believers who believe that their salvation is secure in Christ Jesus?

Who sins more, believers who believe in Conditional Salvation or believers who believe in Eternal Security?

Which sins will one lose their salvation over? If one sins a sin and does not know it to be sin because they do not read the Word of God for knowledge, are they guilty of committing a sin? If so, will that sin which is done over and over again send such a one to hell?

What causes one to remain in condemnation? What causes one to be freed from condemnation?

And finally, is being born of the flesh a one time experience or an ongoing experience? Of course it is a one time experience of which follows a lifetime of maturation. The same holds true for being born of the Spirit. It is a one time experience followed by a lifetime of spiritual maturation. Once a child of God through being born of the Spirit; always a child of God. No one anywhere at anytime can take this away from a child of God; not a lie, a deception, man, devil, or angel. A child of God is protected by God's Word and promise with the sealing of the Holy Spirit.

Michael

 

[XTruth]

Those in Christ have their names written in the book of life; those outside of Christ do not.

Good, I'm glad we agree. Some have gone so far as to say all names are started in God's book. So then, how can a person's part be taken out of the book of the righteous if they never had a part to begin with?

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Tell me, does a non-believer ever have their names written in the book of life? Then how could they have any part of the book of life? Does all of man-kind have a part in the book of life? Then how could their part be taken away if they never had a part?

This goes side by side with how ludicrous it is to believe one was never in Christ who has strayed from being in Christ; or how do you stop abiding, continuing, or enduring if you were never born again in the first place? Or even how is it possible to be cut away from the Vine if you were never part of the Vine? Is everyone started out as in the Vine just like everyone would have to be starting out written in the book of the righteous? Your pointing out that they must of never really been saved when it is clear that they had to be is a crime against common sense and the words of the Holy Spirit, b/c you are forced to contort and complicate Scripture every where in order to hold to your doctrine when the gospel of Christ is simple (2 Cor.11:3), but even that verse that says it is simple also makes clear that righteous beings can fall away by being deceived. You've even complicated the clearness of the verse that says it is simple. If every book was read like you read the Bible, then it would be debated that the great white whale in Moby Dick was not really a whale at all.

 

[Cornelius]

We are maybe less at odds, than we might think

I understand one thing: The elect will enter into the kingdom.

But that said: Many start this walk and we cannot say that they are not in genuine pursuit of the Kingdom, through Jesus and the rebirth. I do know very genuine Christians, they speak in tongues, they have all have their 'date of repentance" written in the front of their Bible, but fact is, that even through they have, they are out of step with the Word. They are not going to make it, if they continue on this path, that they are now on. They are now preaching for money and they are, as you say, more concerned about their denomination, than with the truth.

They are the ones, who will hear "I never knew you" because they did not bear fruit. They talk the talk, but do not walk it.

Many are called........that does not mean, many unsaved are called to salvation, but it means, many are called to the high calling in Christ. That happens when you start this walk.But few are chosen (the elect) because few indeed bear the fruit of Christ. More are in fact just Christian by name and only a remnant are the elect.

This matter, is complicated Michael, and it is because we cannot really SEE those who are the tares. The Bible says we will only SEE them, when they fall away. Like Judas, who were also "unseen" as the son of perdition, UNTIL he walked out, after placing his hand in the sop. (Strange how "sop" is Son Of Perdition )

So the simple answer is the tares will be lost although they claim rebirth and salvation
The elect will be saved, because their names were written in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world.

Problem is though, that all claim to be the elect. Don't we? Even the tares will say....."The tares will fall away, but not me"


Ultimately we can only know, if we are part of the elect, if we bear the fruit of the elect, which is Christ.It always comes back to the fruit, does it not? Yes, because God says we shall know people , even the elect, by their fruit. (not by what they say, but through what they do )

C

 

[Cornelius]

1Pe 2:2 as newborn babes, long for the spiritual milk which is without guile, that ye may grow thereby unto salvation;
Its a condition. Its also something that we can stop doing and the tares will stop doing it. They will stop "growing thereby unto salvation"

 

[francisdesales]

You've even complicated the clearness of the verse that says it is simple. If every book was read like you read the Bible, then it would be debated that the great white whale in Moby Dick was not really a whale at all.

:rolling

Naturally, the whale says he is a whale and swore up and down he was a whale and not a shark, but only much later did he find out he was never a whale to begin with, but always a shark. All that breathing air was just a dream...

Of course, this calls into question whether ANY whale was really a shark and just didn't know it yet and that breathing air, something that sharks do not do, was just a figment of their imaginations.

Ahab and OSAS go down to Davie Jone's locker, tangled up in their respective madness and silly single-minded pursuits without taking into account any other logical suggestions or commands... Such stubborness is bewildering to the sailors who watch and shake their heads over such schemes.

Regards

 

[Solo]

We are maybe less at odds, than we might think

I understand one thing: The elect will enter into the kingdom.

But that said: Many start this walk and we cannot say that they are not in genuine pursuit of the Kingdom, through Jesus and the rebirth. I do know very genuine Christians, they speak in tongues, they have all have their 'date of repentance" written in the front of their Bible, but fact is, that even through they have, they are out of step with the Word. They are not going to make it, if they continue on this path, that they are now on. They are now preaching for money and they are, as you say, more concerned about their denomination, than with the truth.

They are the ones, who will hear "I never knew you" because they did not bear fruit. They talk the talk, but do not walk it.

Many are called........that does not mean, many unsaved are called to salvation, but it means, many are called to the high calling in Christ. That happens when you start this walk.But few are chosen (the elect) because few indeed bear the fruit of Christ. More are in fact just Christian by name and only a remnant are the elect.

This matter, is complicated Michael, and it is because we cannot really SEE those who are the tares. The Bible says we will only SEE them, when they fall away. Like Judas, who were also "unseen" as the son of perdition, UNTIL he walked out, after placing his hand in the sop. (Strange how "sop" is Son Of Perdition )

So the simple answer is the tares will be lost although they claim rebirth and salvation
The elect will be saved, because their names were written in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world.

Problem is though, that all claim to be the elect. Don't we? Even the tares will say....."The tares will fall away, but not me"


Ultimately we can only know, if we are part of the elect, if we bear the fruit of the elect, which is Christ.It always comes back to the fruit, does it not? Yes, because God says we shall know people , even the elect, by their fruit. (not by what they say, but through what they do )

C

Many are called to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for redemption from condemnation; but few believe and are saved and are chosen in Christ Jesus.

Those that are called are quickened and shown the truth of the Word of God. Those that believe come to the truth, the light, and are born again; those that reject the truth after seeing and hearing it stay in darkness and are not born again, but remain in condemnation. Many are called including those who reject the Word after being called; but those who are chosen are those who believe and are born again, born from above, born of God.

He says to his servants, the wedding is ready, but they which were bidden (The Jews) were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find (of the Gentiles), bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good (those of good soil and those of bad soil where the seed of the Word of God will be planted as described in the parable of the sower): and the wedding was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment (a man stood there not covered by the blood of Jesus Christ): And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment (How were you able to come to the wedding of the Lamb without being covered by the blood of the Lamb)? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few chosen (Those that are called and are born again are chosen, while those who are called and reject the truth are not born again and are not chosen).

• 8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. 9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. 10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. 11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
  Matthew 22:8-14

 

[Paidion]

There are absolutely no verses of Scripture that show that the Salvation that is given to those who are born again can be lost through the acts of the flesh. No one, having been born of God will suffer His wrath be condemned according to the Scriptures.

On the contrary:

1 Corinthians 9:27 ASV
...but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.

Apparently Paul thought that he had to keep his body under control or else "the acts of the flesh" would result in him being rejected, in spite of that fact that he had been a great evangelist. If Paul had ended up being rejected, would you then say, "He was never really born again?"

Consider Simon the magician. The scripture says he "believed and was baptized" (which according to Peter were the requirements for receiving the Holy Spirit. Remember Simon wanted to buy with money the gift of imparting the Spirit. When reprimanded, he didn't really repent. He just asked the apostles to pray that nothing bad would happen to him (he was concerned only about his self-preservation). History shows that Simon later went back to claiming to be God. At his death, Roman officials erected a statue to his honour, with the inscription "To the Great God, Simon". Simon lost the position in Christ which he had held.

Consider Charles Templeton, fellow evangelist with Billy Graham. Many souls were saved through his ministry. But one day, Charles quit believing. He began to think that all he believed and preached was bunk. Billy Graham tried to restore him, but he said, "Billy, I appreciate your concern for me, but I just don't believe that stuff anymore!" Charles lost the position in Christ which he had held.

I Corinthians 6: 9, 10 RSV
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5: 19-21
Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Do born again people ever do any of these things? Do they ever get angry? Do they ever have a party spirit with regards to their denomination? Are they ever jealous? Do they ever get angry?


We must persevere in the faith or we will lose out.
Hebrews 3:14 RVS
For we share in Christ, if only we hold our first confidence firm to the end ...

Romans 11:22 RSV
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.

John 15:6 NIV
If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

Holiness is necessary in order to see the Lord, and we should strive for it.
Hebrews 12:14 RSV
Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

Obedience to Christ is necessary for eternal salvation
Hebrews 5:9 RSV
...and being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him.

.... and many more

 

[XTruth]

Those in Christ have their names written in the book of life; those outside of Christ do not.

Good, I'm glad we agree. Some have gone so far as to say all names are started in God's book. So then, how can a person's part be taken out of the book of the righteous if they never had a part to begin with?

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Tell me, does a non-believer ever have their names written in the book of life? Then how could they have any part of the book of life? Does all of man-kind have a part in the book of life? Then how could their part be taken away if they never had a part?

This goes side by side with how ludicrous it is to believe one was never in Christ who has strayed from being in Christ; or how do you stop abiding, continuing, or enduring if you were never born again in the first place? Or even how is it possible to be cut away from the Vine if you were never part of the Vine? Is everyone started out as in the Vine just like everyone would have to be starting out written in the book of the righteous? Your pointing out that they must of never really been saved when it is clear that they had to be is a crime against common sense and the words of the Holy Spirit, b/c you are forced to contort and complicate Scripture every where in order to hold to your doctrine when the gospel of Christ is simple (2 Cor.11:3), but even that verse that says it is simple also makes clear that righteous beings can fall away by being deceived. You've even complicated the clearness of the verse that says it is simple. If every book was read like you read the Bible, then it would be debated that the great white whale in Moby Dick was not really a whale at all.

Hate to appear impatient, but I saw that you've posted again and failed to answer this twice already. Do you need more time to search Charles Stanley's writings? By the way, great post Paidion!

 

[Solo]

Since many have ignored all that has been offered so far concerning the gift of Salvation given to those who are born of God, I will just post bits and pieces in answer to some posts hereon in.

It is sad that many do not understand being born again, the judgment of God, and the process and purpose of justification, sanctification, and glorification. The Lord and Master will continue to speak, but only His sheep will hear His Voice.

• 1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. 7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. 17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. 19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings. 20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him? 21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind? 22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make F22 us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. John 10:1-30

• [list:1d2lj70y]1 Corinthians 9:27: Can a True Believer be "Disqualified"?
  
  * Sam Storms
  * Nov 7, 2006
  * Series: Eternal Security
  
  The apostle Paul describes how he is careful to be self-disciplined and to bring his body into subjection “lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.†Does this word translated “disqualified†(NASB) suggest that Paul feared losing his salvation? Once again, as we see also in Rom. 11:22, it may be that Paul is echoing a theme found elsewhere in his letters and throughout the NT, namely, that ultimate salvation is dependent on perseverance in faith (cf. Rom. 8:13; Col. 1:23; Heb. 3:6,14; 1 Peter 1:5; 1 John 2:19), a faith which Paul believes God graciously preserves and sustains within us (see, e.g., Phil. 2:12-13).
  
  More likely, however, is Paul’s concern that he not become slack or indifferent in his ministry lest he forfeit God’s approval on his apostolic endeavors (and perhaps the power of the Holy Spirit that energized his work). He fears not hearing God say: “Well done, good and faithful servant,†and thereby forfeiting the divine blessings and rewards he otherwise would receive (a theme he earlier addressed in 1 Cor. 3:10-15). The Greek word adokimos (translated “disqualifiedâ€Â) does not pertain to the test of faith but to the test of apostleship. In 2 Corinthians Paul applies the terminology of testing (adokimos and its cognates) to himself as an apostle, not as a professing Christian (see 13:6-7; cf. 1 Thess. 2:4; 2 Tim. 2:15. Gundry-Volf concludes:
  
  “The fact that no instance of the use of adokimos or a cognate referring to Paul relates to the test of faith or salvation, rather, that every instance has to do with his fitness as an apostle raises doubts about the view that adokimos in 1 Cor. 9:27 means rejected from salvation and suggests instead that it means rejected as an apostle†(236-37).
  
  Retrieved from http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/ar ... qualified/

[/list:u:1d2lj70y]

 

[XTruth]

Since many have ignored all that has been offered so far concerning the gift of Salvation given to those who are born of God, I will just post bits and pieces in answer to some posts hereon in.

It is sad that many do not understand being born again, the judgment of God, and the process and purpose of justification, sanctification, and glorification. The Lord and Master will continue to speak, but only His sheep will hear His Voice.

• 1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. 7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. 17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. 19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings. 20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him? 21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind? 22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make F22 us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. John 10:1-30

• [list:mtr8m46i]1 Corinthians 9:27: Can a True Believer be "Disqualified"?
  
  * Sam Storms
  * Nov 7, 2006
  * Series: Eternal Security
  
  The apostle Paul describes how he is careful to be self-disciplined and to bring his body into subjection “lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.†Does this word translated “disqualified†(NASB) suggest that Paul feared losing his salvation? Once again, as we see also in Rom. 11:22, it may be that Paul is echoing a theme found elsewhere in his letters and throughout the NT, namely, that ultimate salvation is dependent on perseverance in faith (cf. Rom. 8:13; Col. 1:23; Heb. 3:6,14; 1 Peter 1:5; 1 John 2:19), a faith which Paul believes God graciously preserves and sustains within us (see, e.g., Phil. 2:12-13).
  
  More likely, however, is Paul’s concern that he not become slack or indifferent in his ministry lest he forfeit God’s approval on his apostolic endeavors (and perhaps the power of the Holy Spirit that energized his work). He fears not hearing God say: “Well done, good and faithful servant,†and thereby forfeiting the divine blessings and rewards he otherwise would receive (a theme he earlier addressed in 1 Cor. 3:10-15). The Greek word adokimos (translated “disqualifiedâ€Â) does not pertain to the test of faith but to the test of apostleship. In 2 Corinthians Paul applies the terminology of testing (adokimos and its cognates) to himself as an apostle, not as a professing Christian (see 13:6-7; cf. 1 Thess. 2:4; 2 Tim. 2:15. Gundry-Volf concludes:
  
  “The fact that no instance of the use of adokimos or a cognate referring to Paul relates to the test of faith or salvation, rather, that every instance has to do with his fitness as an apostle raises doubts about the view that adokimos in 1 Cor. 9:27 means rejected from salvation and suggests instead that it means rejected as an apostle†(236-37).
  
  Retrieved from http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/ar ... qualified/

[/list:u:mtr8m46i]

You aren't going to run from this, this is a thread YOU srarted about the book of life, not a thread specifically about being born again, which we all seem to understand, we just don't agree with you apparently. Now answer the simple post that I have displayed 3 times thus far.

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Tell me, does a non-believer ever have their names written in the book of life? Then how could they have any part of the book of life? Does all of man-kind have a part in the book of life? Then how could their part be taken away if they never had a part?

This goes side by side with how ludicrous it is to believe one was never in Christ who has strayed from being in Christ; or how do you stop abiding, continuing, or enduring if you were never born again in the first place? Or even how is it possible to be cut away from the Vine if you were never part of the Vine? Is everyone started out as in the Vine just like everyone would have to be starting out written in the book of the righteous? Your pointing out that they must of never really been saved when it is clear that they had to be is a crime against common sense and the words of the Holy Spirit, b/c you are forced to contort and complicate Scripture every where in order to hold to your doctrine when the gospel of Christ is simple (2 Cor.11:3), but even that verse that says it is simple also makes clear that righteous beings can fall away by being deceived. You've even complicated the clearness of the verse that says it is simple.

So then, how can a person's part be taken out of the book of the righteous if they never had a part to begin with?

 

[Solo]

Since many have ignored all that has been offered so far concerning the gift of Salvation given to those who are born of God, I will just post bits and pieces in answer to some posts hereon in.

It is sad that many do not understand being born again, the judgment of God, and the process and purpose of justification, sanctification, and glorification. The Lord and Master will continue to speak, but only His sheep will hear His Voice.

• 1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. 7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. 17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. 19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings. 20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him? 21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind? 22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make F22 us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. John 10:1-30

• [list:3ad5afh1]1 Corinthians 9:27: Can a True Believer be "Disqualified"?
  
  * Sam Storms
  * Nov 7, 2006
  * Series: Eternal Security
  
  The apostle Paul describes how he is careful to be self-disciplined and to bring his body into subjection “lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.†Does this word translated “disqualified†(NASB) suggest that Paul feared losing his salvation? Once again, as we see also in Rom. 11:22, it may be that Paul is echoing a theme found elsewhere in his letters and throughout the NT, namely, that ultimate salvation is dependent on perseverance in faith (cf. Rom. 8:13; Col. 1:23; Heb. 3:6,14; 1 Peter 1:5; 1 John 2:19), a faith which Paul believes God graciously preserves and sustains within us (see, e.g., Phil. 2:12-13).
  
  More likely, however, is Paul’s concern that he not become slack or indifferent in his ministry lest he forfeit God’s approval on his apostolic endeavors (and perhaps the power of the Holy Spirit that energized his work). He fears not hearing God say: “Well done, good and faithful servant,†and thereby forfeiting the divine blessings and rewards he otherwise would receive (a theme he earlier addressed in 1 Cor. 3:10-15). The Greek word adokimos (translated “disqualifiedâ€Â) does not pertain to the test of faith but to the test of apostleship. In 2 Corinthians Paul applies the terminology of testing (adokimos and its cognates) to himself as an apostle, not as a professing Christian (see 13:6-7; cf. 1 Thess. 2:4; 2 Tim. 2:15. Gundry-Volf concludes:
  
  “The fact that no instance of the use of adokimos or a cognate referring to Paul relates to the test of faith or salvation, rather, that every instance has to do with his fitness as an apostle raises doubts about the view that adokimos in 1 Cor. 9:27 means rejected from salvation and suggests instead that it means rejected as an apostle†(236-37).
  
  Retrieved from http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/ar ... qualified/

[/list:u:3ad5afh1]

You aren't going to run from this, this is a thread YOU srarted about the book of life, not a thread specifically about being born again, which we all seem to understand, we just don't agree with you apparently. Now answer the simple post that I have displayed 3 times thus far.

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Tell me, does a non-believer ever have their names written in the book of life? Then how could they have any part of the book of life? Does all of man-kind have a part in the book of life? Then how could their part be taken away if they never had a part?

This goes side by side with how ludicrous it is to believe one was never in Christ who has strayed from being in Christ; or how do you stop abiding, continuing, or enduring if you were never born again in the first place? Or even how is it possible to be cut away from the Vine if you were never part of the Vine? Is everyone started out as in the Vine just like everyone would have to be starting out written in the book of the righteous? Your pointing out that they must of never really been saved when it is clear that they had to be is a crime against common sense and the words of the Holy Spirit, b/c you are forced to contort and complicate Scripture every where in order to hold to your doctrine when the gospel of Christ is simple (2 Cor.11:3), but even that verse that says it is simple also makes clear that righteous beings can fall away by being deceived. You've even complicated the clearness of the verse that says it is simple.

So then, how can a person's part be taken out of the book of the righteous if they never had a part to begin with?

In a nutshell:

All who are in covenant with God are written in the book of life. As the Israelites were covenanted with God through the Mosaic law, so to are all since the crucifixion and resurrection covenanted with God through Jesus Christ. All of those who are covenanted with God are written in the book of life until such time as they harden their heart and reach total unbelief to the point of God turning them over to a reprobate mind, at which time they will be removed from the book of life. Do not misunderstand; I am not saying that all who are covenanted with God are believers; I am saying that all who are in the time and place of God's covenant with mankind, it is those who are in the book of life. God would have that all would be saved, and He sent His son into the world so that those who believe will not perish but have eternal life; therefore, all who have a breath are written in the book of life until they reach the point of terminal unbelief at which time their name will be blotted out of the book of life.

Those of us that are born of the Spirit are those that have overcome through the faith of Jesus Christ, and we will be clothed in white raiment, and God will not blot our names out of the book of life, but Jesus Christ will name our names before His Father and before His angels.

• "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:5

 

[XTruth]

Since many have ignored all that has been offered so far concerning the gift of Salvation given to those who are born of God, I will just post bits and pieces in answer to some posts hereon in.

It is sad that many do not understand being born again, the judgment of God, and the process and purpose of justification, sanctification, and glorification. The Lord and Master will continue to speak, but only His sheep will hear His Voice.

• 1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. 7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. 17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. 19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings. 20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him? 21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind? 22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make F22 us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. John 10:1-30

• [list:2fxbb9ke]1 Corinthians 9:27: Can a True Believer be "Disqualified"?
  
  * Sam Storms
  * Nov 7, 2006
  * Series: Eternal Security
  
  The apostle Paul describes how he is careful to be self-disciplined and to bring his body into subjection “lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.†Does this word translated “disqualified†(NASB) suggest that Paul feared losing his salvation? Once again, as we see also in Rom. 11:22, it may be that Paul is echoing a theme found elsewhere in his letters and throughout the NT, namely, that ultimate salvation is dependent on perseverance in faith (cf. Rom. 8:13; Col. 1:23; Heb. 3:6,14; 1 Peter 1:5; 1 John 2:19), a faith which Paul believes God graciously preserves and sustains within us (see, e.g., Phil. 2:12-13).
  
  More likely, however, is Paul’s concern that he not become slack or indifferent in his ministry lest he forfeit God’s approval on his apostolic endeavors (and perhaps the power of the Holy Spirit that energized his work). He fears not hearing God say: “Well done, good and faithful servant,†and thereby forfeiting the divine blessings and rewards he otherwise would receive (a theme he earlier addressed in 1 Cor. 3:10-15). The Greek word adokimos (translated “disqualifiedâ€Â) does not pertain to the test of faith but to the test of apostleship. In 2 Corinthians Paul applies the terminology of testing (adokimos and its cognates) to himself as an apostle, not as a professing Christian (see 13:6-7; cf. 1 Thess. 2:4; 2 Tim. 2:15. Gundry-Volf concludes:
  
  “The fact that no instance of the use of adokimos or a cognate referring to Paul relates to the test of faith or salvation, rather, that every instance has to do with his fitness as an apostle raises doubts about the view that adokimos in 1 Cor. 9:27 means rejected from salvation and suggests instead that it means rejected as an apostle†(236-37).
  
  Retrieved from http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/ar ... qualified/

[/list:u:2fxbb9ke]

You aren't going to run from this, this is a thread YOU srarted about the book of life, not a thread specifically about being born again, which we all seem to understand, we just don't agree with you apparently. Now answer the simple post that I have displayed 3 times thus far.

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Tell me, does a non-believer ever have their names written in the book of life? Then how could they have any part of the book of life? Does all of man-kind have a part in the book of life? Then how could their part be taken away if they never had a part?

This goes side by side with how ludicrous it is to believe one was never in Christ who has strayed from being in Christ; or how do you stop abiding, continuing, or enduring if you were never born again in the first place? Or even how is it possible to be cut away from the Vine if you were never part of the Vine? Is everyone started out as in the Vine just like everyone would have to be starting out written in the book of the righteous? Your pointing out that they must of never really been saved when it is clear that they had to be is a crime against common sense and the words of the Holy Spirit, b/c you are forced to contort and complicate Scripture every where in order to hold to your doctrine when the gospel of Christ is simple (2 Cor.11:3), but even that verse that says it is simple also makes clear that righteous beings can fall away by being deceived. You've even complicated the clearness of the verse that says it is simple.

So then, how can a person's part be taken out of the book of the righteous if they never had a part to begin with?

In a nutshell:

All who are in covenant with God are written in the book of life. As the Israelites were covenanted with God through the Mosaic law, so to are all since the crucifixion and resurrection covenanted with God through Jesus Christ. All of those who are covenanted with God are written in the book of life until such time as they harden their heart and reach total unbelief to the point of God turning them over to a reprobate mind, at which time they will be removed from the book of life. Do not misunderstand; I am not saying that all who are covenanted with God are believers; I am saying that all who are in the time and place of God's covenant with mankind, it is those who are in the book of life. God would have that all would be saved, and He sent His son into the world so that those who believe will not perish but have eternal life; therefore, all who have a breath are written in the book of life until they reach the point of terminal unbelief at which time their name will be blotted out of the book of life.

Those of us that are born of the Spirit are those that have overcome through the faith of Jesus Christ, and we will be clothed in white raiment, and God will not blot our names out of the book of life, but Jesus Christ will name our names before His Father and before His angels.

• "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:5

According to your last reply, not all are believers who are written in the book of life and covenanted w/ God? According to the following post of yours from page 2, only the righteous are written in the book of the righteous.

Those in Christ have their names written in the book of life; those outside of Christ do not.

So what were you saying? Does every man have their name in the book of life at some point, or are the names of the righteous written in when they come to Christ?

 

[francisdesales]

There are absolutely no verses of Scripture that show that the Salvation that is given to those who are born again can be lost through the acts of the flesh. No one, having been born of God will suffer His wrath be condemned according to the Scriptures.

On the contrary:

1 Corinthians 9:27 ASV
...but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.

Apparently Paul thought that he had to keep his body under control or else "the acts of the flesh" would result in him being rejected, in spite of that fact that he had been a great evangelist. If Paul had ended up being rejected, would you then say, "He was never really born again?"

Consider Simon the magician. The scripture says he "believed and was baptized" (which according to Peter were the requirements for receiving the Holy Spirit. Remember Simon wanted to buy with money the gift of imparting the Spirit. When reprimanded, he didn't really repent. He just asked the apostles to pray that nothing bad would happen to him (he was concerned only about his self-preservation). History shows that Simon later went back to claiming to be God. At his death, Roman officials erected a statue to his honour, with the inscription "To the Great God, Simon". Simon lost the position in Christ which he had held.

Consider Charles Templeton, fellow evangelist with Billy Graham. Many souls were saved through his ministry. But one day, Charles quit believing. He began to think that all he believed and preached was bunk. Billy Graham tried to restore him, but he said, "Billy, I appreciate your concern for me, but I just don't believe that stuff anymore!" Charles lost the position in Christ which he had held.

I Corinthians 6: 9, 10 RSV
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5: 19-21
Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Do born again people ever do any of these things? Do they ever get angry? Do they ever have a party spirit with regards to their denomination? Are they ever jealous? Do they ever get angry?


We must persevere in the faith or we will lose out.
Hebrews 3:14 RVS
For we share in Christ, if only we hold our first confidence firm to the end ...

Romans 11:22 RSV
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.

John 15:6 NIV
If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

Holiness is necessary in order to see the Lord, and we should strive for it.
Hebrews 12:14 RSV
Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

Obedience to Christ is necessary for eternal salvation
Hebrews 5:9 RSV
...and being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him.

.... and many more

Yes, good post. Especially the modern day example. What is unfortunate is that a person who claims to follow the Scriptures can refuse to see so many clear examples that their theology is misconstrued. Only prayer and fasting will reach through such a hardened heart.

Regards

 

[XTruth]

You aren't going to run from this, this is a thread YOU srarted about the book of life, not a thread specifically about being born again, which we all seem to understand, we just don't agree with you apparently. Now answer the simple post that I have displayed 3 times thus far.

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Tell me, does a non-believer ever have their names written in the book of life? Then how could they have any part of the book of life? Does all of man-kind have a part in the book of life? Then how could their part be taken away if they never had a part?

This goes side by side with how ludicrous it is to believe one was never in Christ who has strayed from being in Christ; or how do you stop abiding, continuing, or enduring if you were never born again in the first place? Or even how is it possible to be cut away from the Vine if you were never part of the Vine? Is everyone started out as in the Vine just like everyone would have to be starting out written in the book of the righteous? Your pointing out that they must of never really been saved when it is clear that they had to be is a crime against common sense and the words of the Holy Spirit, b/c you are forced to contort and complicate Scripture every where in order to hold to your doctrine when the gospel of Christ is simple (2 Cor.11:3), but even that verse that says it is simple also makes clear that righteous beings can fall away by being deceived. You've even complicated the clearness of the verse that says it is simple.

So then, how can a person's part be taken out of the book of the righteous if they never had a part to begin with?

In a nutshell:

All who are in covenant with God are written in the book of life. As the Israelites were covenanted with God through the Mosaic law, so to are all since the crucifixion and resurrection covenanted with God through Jesus Christ. All of those who are covenanted with God are written in the book of life until such time as they harden their heart and reach total unbelief to the point of God turning them over to a reprobate mind, at which time they will be removed from the book of life. Do not misunderstand; I am not saying that all who are covenanted with God are believers; I am saying that all who are in the time and place of God's covenant with mankind, it is those who are in the book of life. God would have that all would be saved, and He sent His son into the world so that those who believe will not perish but have eternal life; therefore, all who have a breath are written in the book of life until they reach the point of terminal unbelief at which time their name will be blotted out of the book of life.

Those of us that are born of the Spirit are those that have overcome through the faith of Jesus Christ, and we will be clothed in white raiment, and God will not blot our names out of the book of life, but Jesus Christ will name our names before His Father and before His angels.

• "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:5

According to your last reply, not all are believers who are written in the book of life and covenanted w/ God? According to the following post of yours from page 2, only the righteous are written in the book of the righteous.

Those in Christ have their names written in the book of life; those outside of Christ do not.

So what were you saying? Does every man have their name in the book of life at some point, or are the names of the righteous written in when they come to Christ?

Please, feel free to answer plainly. This is 5 times I believe.

 

[Solo]

You aren't going to run from this, this is a thread YOU srarted about the book of life, not a thread specifically about being born again, which we all seem to understand, we just don't agree with you apparently. Now answer the simple post that I have displayed 3 times thus far.

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Tell me, does a non-believer ever have their names written in the book of life? Then how could they have any part of the book of life? Does all of man-kind have a part in the book of life? Then how could their part be taken away if they never had a part?

This goes side by side with how ludicrous it is to believe one was never in Christ who has strayed from being in Christ; or how do you stop abiding, continuing, or enduring if you were never born again in the first place? Or even how is it possible to be cut away from the Vine if you were never part of the Vine? Is everyone started out as in the Vine just like everyone would have to be starting out written in the book of the righteous? Your pointing out that they must of never really been saved when it is clear that they had to be is a crime against common sense and the words of the Holy Spirit, b/c you are forced to contort and complicate Scripture every where in order to hold to your doctrine when the gospel of Christ is simple (2 Cor.11:3), but even that verse that says it is simple also makes clear that righteous beings can fall away by being deceived. You've even complicated the clearness of the verse that says it is simple.

So then, how can a person's part be taken out of the book of the righteous if they never had a part to begin with?

In a nutshell:

All who are in covenant with God are written in the book of life. As the Israelites were covenanted with God through the Mosaic law, so to are all since the crucifixion and resurrection covenanted with God through Jesus Christ. All of those who are covenanted with God are written in the book of life until such time as they harden their heart and reach total unbelief to the point of God turning them over to a reprobate mind, at which time they will be removed from the book of life. Do not misunderstand; I am not saying that all who are covenanted with God are believers; I am saying that all who are in the time and place of God's covenant with mankind, it is those who are in the book of life. God would have that all would be saved, and He sent His son into the world so that those who believe will not perish but have eternal life; therefore, all who have a breath are written in the book of life until they reach the point of terminal unbelief at which time their name will be blotted out of the book of life.

Those of us that are born of the Spirit are those that have overcome through the faith of Jesus Christ, and we will be clothed in white raiment, and God will not blot our names out of the book of life, but Jesus Christ will name our names before His Father and before His angels.

• "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:5

According to your last reply, not all are believers who are written in the book of life and covenanted w/ God? According to the following post of yours from page 2, only the righteous are written in the book of the righteous.

Those in Christ have their names written in the book of life; those outside of Christ do not.

So what were you saying? Does every man have their name in the book of life at some point, or are the names of the righteous written in when they come to Christ?

Please, feel free to answer plainly. This is 5 times I believe.

Your math is better than your exegesis, but off by 1 anyway. I do like your persistance and consistancy however!

You have not understood one single post that I have posted, so all that can be taught to you has been done, and until you can see through the cloud of misinterpreation of personal bias, we both are wasting time.

• 15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. Ephesians 5:15-17

 

[stovebolts]

Solo,
Since the topic at hand is the Book of life, perhaps you could assist me here.

I have searched the Bible, and it appears that I am only able to find where one's name is blotted out of the Book of Life, and generally, it's due to the wicked acts with an unrepentant heart. If need be, I can post the verses, but I'm assuming here that you have a good search engine with your bible software, so I'll let you do the searching.

It appears to me, that your argument hinges upon that the names found in the Book or Life, only consist of Born Again believers in Christ. How then does this take into consideration those conceived in the womb, yet were never born. Again, if I am reading your argument correctly, how does that theology account for infants who die shortly after birth, or even those who die while still toddlers?

But as important, how does the theology that only those saved, those "Born Again" as you've been hammering out the past few weeks, how is it that only their names are found in the "Book of Life", while those across the globe for centuries have never heard the gospel, thus according to your proclamation that only those who hear and receive God's word and are "Born Again" will be found in the Book of Life, are we now then to to reason and conclude that everyone else will receive eternal damnation?

If the Lord God is one (Deut 6:4) and Paul preached to those at Mar's hill who understood that there was an unknown God, and Romans 2:12-16 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law; for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves; in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.

and

Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Is it possible that the Lamb's book of Life, and the Book of Life are two separate books?...

I will apologize for not being able to really engage much in conversation, but I do appreciate, and look forward to your response.

Grace and Peace,
Jeff