Born Again Of The Holy Spirit

[MarkT]

I've shown you many places where water is used for the words of God. Paul uses spiritual language. Water for the doctrines of Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:6
I planted, Apol′los watered, but God gave the growth.

Rain falling on land. Drinking the rain
Hebrews 6:7
For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God.

 

[MarkT]

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

1 Peter 1:23
You have been born anew, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

John in both John 3:4-7 and 1 John 5:6 is referring to being born.


Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ John 3:4-7


The subject matter is being born.

Born of flesh.
Born of the Spirit.


We first must be born to be born again.


Please answer my question -

Did Jesus come out of His mother’s womb and into this world by breaking His virgin mother’s water sack as well as her hymen?



JLB

So the virgin birth is important. Jesus coming from above. Not so much.

I have no knowledge of Mary's water or Mary's blood or Mary's hymen.

[edited]

Jesus, the fountain of our salvation, gave us words to drink. Living water. Water for growth. Without water branches wither and are broken off.

 

[JLB]

I've shown you many places where water is used for the words of God.

There are many parabolic references in the Bible that are symbolic.

However, I have shown that the scriptures and context of 1 John 5:4-7 is not symbolic but Literal.


Furthermore I haven’t seen any symbolic scriptures that show water is the word.


Water is symbolic of the Spirit.


38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. John 7:38-39



JLB

 

[JLB]

So the virgin birth is important. Jesus coming from above. Not so much.

Those are your words not mine.



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

If you are waiting for your physical death as JLB suggests, then are you not yet carnal? And if you are carnal, then....





He who has ears to hear should hear what the Spirit saith.

1 Corinthians 15:53
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

It has nothing to do with being "made" incorruptible, or being "made" immortal. It is about putting on a new garment. But you continue to reject the notion, so carry along as you will, and while you wait adorned in your armor, perhaps you might take the time to actually read the passage for what it says.

What does it mean to PUT ON???? Perhaps you could give us all the Strong's definition for the Greek word used in this context.



Hosea 2:19-20
And I will betroth thee unto me for ever;
yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment,
and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness:
and thou shalt know the Lord.

Our flesh will always be carnal as that is why we have to be Spiritually renewed/reborn again to be able to see the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Notice it says we shall not all sleep as many will still be alive when Christ returns. It's at that time when those who are in their graves will hear His voice to rise up and then we are changed before being caught up to Him, John 5:28, 29.

Hosea 2:19, 20 says nothing about battle armor.

 

[JLB]

I have no knowledge of Mary's water or Mary's blood or Mary's hymen.

Jesus came into this world by both water and blood.


A reference to the virgin birth.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Frankly I'm surprised you have no spiritual understanding.

If a woman’s hymen broke along with her water, as she was giving birth, wouldn’t that prove she was a virgin?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Jesus, the fountain of our salvation, gave us words to drink. Living water. Water for growth. Without water branches wither and are broken off.

Living water is a type of the Spirit.


Seed is a type of the word.


JLB

 

[JLB]

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Yes. Notice that it’s not water.

 

[chessman]

Jesus came into this world by both water and blood.


A reference to the virgin birth.

This One is the One having come by water and blood: Jesus Christ (not in the water only, but in the water and in the blood). And the Spirit is the One testifying, because the Spirit is the truth.​

1 John 5:6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 John 5:6&version=DLNT

What fact do you think the Spirit is “testifying” about?

 

[MarkT]

Yes. Notice that it’s not water.

1 Peter 1:23
You have been born anew, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

John 4:10
Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.”

See how living water and living word are associated?

 

[JLB]

This One is the One having come by water and blood: Jesus Christ (not in the water only, but in the water and in the blood). And the Spirit is the One testifying, because the Spirit is the truth.​

1 John 5:6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 John 5:6&version=DLNT

What fact do you think the Spirit is “testifying” about?

Virgin Birth.

Which is what the prophet Isaiah spoke of saying -


Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14


John was dealing with Jews who were constantly being persuaded by unbelieving Jews that Jesus was not the Messiah.


God left many witnesses in the scriptures which testify that Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies concerning the Messiah, the Holy Spirit also bearing witness.



JLB

 

[JLB]

You have been born anew, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

Yes thanking for making my point.


Seed refers to the word, not water.



JLB

 

[JLB]

1 Peter 1:23
You have been born anew, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

John 4:10
Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.”

See how living water and living word are associated?

The living water refers to the Spirit.

The seed refers to the word.

No where does water refer to the word.


If a virgin has a child, it will come into this world by water and blood.


Simple.


Simple proof of a supernatural virgin birth.



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

He doesn't. So. He is not trying to prove the virgin birth.

The RSV says, "This is he who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only but with the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth." 1John 5:6-7 RSV

He came by water and blood. This part of the sentence alone doesn't tell us what he means by water and blood. But the rest of the sentence is, "He came with the water and the blood."

He came with something.

He came with the water, the word of the kingdom. You could say he came with the words of God. You could say he came with the teachings of God. You could say he came with the commandments of God. He was the Teacher, the fountain of our salvation. He came with the words of God. He came with living water. He came with the blood of the new covenant. All of these things are associated with Jesus Christ, the words and the blood and the Spirit.

The Jerusalem Bible
1 John 5:6 Jesus Christ who came by water and blood, not with water only, but with water and blood with the Spirit as another witness since the Spirit is truth 7 so that there are three witnesses, 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood and all three of them agree

KJV
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Literal water has nothing to do with salvation as Jesus came by the foretold word of the Prophets, sent by the Father, and signified by the Holy Spirit that lighted upon Him during John's water baptism for the remission of sins, Matthew 3:11-17. Three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, the water (word) and the blood. Three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost.

 

[for_his_glory]

Why shouldn’t he mention it in his letter?


If a woman’s hymen broke along with her water, as she was giving birth, wouldn’t that prove she was a virgin?



JLB

No, it doesn't prove she is a virgin. If a woman is relaxed during intercourse and has good lubrication and she or her partner has tried to stretch the hymen with fingers then it likely will not break.

 

[for_his_glory]

How can one "hear" the word of God when they are always sitting in judgement of the word of God?


What were they wearing then?

What does any of this have to do with the foolish virgins or the question I asked where does it say battle armour in Hosea 2:19, 20?

 

[for_his_glory]

Know you not that a helmet, shield, breastplate and sword are garments fitted for battle, but they do not make the attire of a wedding garment?

I never said they did. I said "Until the Groom comes for His bride we will always have an adversary that wants to destroy our faith so I will keep my armour on until it's time for the marriage."

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

The foolish virgins were not Spiritually born again/renewed in their spirit as Jesus came to them as a thief in the night as they were not prepared for His return and were not part of the Bride.

 

[for_his_glory]

Ephesians 5:31-32
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.




If you keep waiting until your physical body dies, then how should the two become one flesh? A new garment? A marriage? Raised in the Spirit, as one!

This is speaking about being spotless before the Lord whether we physically die first or that we are still alive at His coming. We are joined to Christ through the Spiritual rebirth/born again/renewal as by grace through faith we are saved, Ephesians 2:8, 9.

Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

 

[JLB]

No, it doesn't prove she is a virgin. If a woman is relaxed during intercourse and has good lubrication and she or her partner has tried to stretch the hymen with fingers then it likely will not break.

WOW!!!

I’m thinking a virgin hasn’t done any of that!


JLB