Bible Study Cain and Abel – Muslim vs Jew

[ugmug]

Cain and Abel – Muslim vs Jew

Why did God reject Cain's sacrifice? Because Cain's sacrifice to God was only an afterthought.

Consider that a harvest occurs in the fall whereas the birth of a lamb happens in the spring. When Abel sacrificed his lamb to God he was thinking of God first and foremost. Cain on the other hand was sacrificing his grain to God at the same time that Abel sacrificed his lamb and because of this Cain could only offer the leftover grain from the preceding year's harvest.

If Cain had sacrificed his grain when it was harvested God would have accepted it since Cain would have been thinking of God first and foremost. As it happened Abel was the one who thought about God first and Cain could only offer old leftover grain that God rejected.

God accepted the trust and belief of the Jewish people and made a covenant with them. Whereas Islam was an afterthought created after God had made a covenant with the Jewish people therefore God rejects Islam in the same way that God rejected Cain's sacrifice … with the same result....Cain murdering Abel …and now believers of Islam are also trying to murder the Jewish people!

Believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ while you are still alive to do so. If you wait until the afterlife to do it it'll be rejected by God just like Cain's sacrifice was rejected because it was only an afterthought …. too little too late.

God Bless

 

[th1b.taylor]

Thank you, I never considered the seasons, that is very enlightening.

 

[selihah]

Umm there is a harvest in the spring too. Its why its called the month if Aviv.

 

[Free]

Cain and Abel – Muslim vs Jew

Why did God reject Cain's sacrifice? Because Cain's sacrifice to God was only an afterthought.

Consider that a harvest occurs in the fall whereas the birth of a lamb happens in the spring. When Abel sacrificed his lamb to God he was thinking of God first and foremost. Cain on the other hand was sacrificing his grain to God at the same time that Abel sacrificed his lamb and because of this Cain could only offer the leftover grain from the preceding year's harvest.

If Cain had sacrificed his grain when it was harvested God would have accepted it since Cain would have been thinking of God first and foremost. As it happened Abel was the one who thought about God first and Cain could only offer old leftover grain that God rejected.

God accepted the trust and belief of the Jewish people and made a covenant with them. Whereas Islam was an afterthought created after God had made a covenant with the Jewish people therefore God rejects Islam in the same way that God rejected Cain's sacrifice … with the same result....Cain murdering Abel …and now believers of Islam are also trying to murder the Jewish people!

Believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ while you are still alive to do so. If you wait until the afterlife to do it it'll be rejected by God just like Cain's sacrifice was rejected because it was only an afterthought …. too little too late.

God Bless

What makes you think the lamb was just born?

 

[smaller]

Cain and Abel are pictures of the flesh man, the elder, the first born. God does not accept the 'produce' of the flesh, shown to us as a "ground offering" with Cain. This, God Rejects.

Able is the second born, the second son.

These are pictures of us, in our old state, and in our believing state. The first and the last.

 

[JohnDB]

Many bibles have the time of the sacrifice as "in the course of time" or whatever...

But the appropriate actual better way to translate this is "at the appointed time".

However because of denominational differences resulting in theological differences and the "problems" that this section would create...(paradox of codified law before it was given) they don't translate it in the better fashion.

But it is safe to say that the offerings given were vastly different.

Abel cut up his best lambs/sheep that gave the best wool or had the best skins because they were what they used to make clothes.a backhanded way of saying that God was going to have to give them the atonement covering as Abel recognized that he was unable even with his best. Abel's sacrifice spoke of finality and self insufficiency.

Cain was the farmer and firstborn. Cain was "doing as God had said to do" which was farming by the sweat of his brow. His offering was of some...not all. Cain saying that he could feed himself and others. If he had given all the food he had grown we wouldn't be working near as hard today. (There were no farms in the desert). God would have provided.

At the time of the offerings meat wasn't consumed... vegetables were.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Yes the allegory of the 2 sons, with the first being born after the flesh, and the other being the only begotten by the promise of the Spirit is also shown in Ishmael and Isaac, and Jacob and Esau, who came out red. The firstborn man coming out red represents a sin nature working in the first Adam, which means "earthy red".


1 John 3:12
Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

 

[GodsGrace]

Many bibles have the time of the sacrifice as "in the course of time" or whatever...

But the appropriate actual better way to translate this is "at the appointed time".

However because of denominational differences resulting in theological differences and the "problems" that this section would create...(paradox of codified law before it was given) they don't translate it in the better fashion.

But it is safe to say that the offerings given were vastly different.

Abel cut up his best lambs/sheep that gave the best wool or had the best skins because they were what they used to make clothes.a backhanded way of saying that God was going to have to give them the atonement covering as Abel recognized that he was unable even with his best. Abel's sacrifice spoke of finality and self insufficiency.

Cain was the farmer and firstborn. Cain was "doing as God had said to do" which was farming by the sweat of his brow. His offering was of some...not all. Cain saying that he could feed himself and others. If he had given all the food he had grown we wouldn't be working near as hard today. (There were no farms in the desert). God would have provided.

At the time of the offerings meat wasn't consumed... vegetables were.

I never thought of this John. Thanks for posting.

How about the blood?
A lamb sheds blood - crops don't.

The life is in the blood.
What about Genesis 4:10-11 ?

Also, God would protect Cain from spilling his blood because of the life being in the blood and life being precious to God. Genesis 4:15.

I believe the first animal sacrifice was in Genesis 3:21 when God clothed Adam and Eve in garments of skin. An animal had to die for this - he died because A and E were being driven from the Garden because they had sinned.

Wondering

 

[Sinthesis]

Cain and Abel – Muslim vs Jew

Why did God reject Cain's sacrifice? Because Cain's sacrifice to God was only an afterthought.

Consider that a harvest occurs in the fall whereas the birth of a lamb happens in the spring. When Abel sacrificed his lamb to God he was thinking of God first and foremost. Cain on the other hand was sacrificing his grain to God at the same time that Abel sacrificed his lamb and because of this Cain could only offer the leftover grain from the preceding year's harvest.

If Cain had sacrificed his grain when it was harvested God would have accepted it since Cain would have been thinking of God first and foremost. As it happened Abel was the one who thought about God first and Cain could only offer old leftover grain that God rejected.

God accepted the trust and belief of the Jewish people and made a covenant with them. Whereas Islam was an afterthought created after God had made a covenant with the Jewish people therefore God rejects Islam in the same way that God rejected Cain's sacrifice … with the same result....Cain murdering Abel …and now believers of Islam are also trying to murder the Jewish people!

Believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ while you are still alive to do so. If you wait until the afterlife to do it it'll be rejected by God just like Cain's sacrifice was rejected because it was only an afterthought …. too little too late.

God Bless

A newborn sheep is a lamb for the entire first year. Thus another equally plausible scenario would be that Able didn't even think to offer his lamb until he saw Cain, his older brother, offering the first fruits of his fall harvest.

There are better ways to build support for the criticism of Islam. Think about it. Which faith do you believe is older; Judaism or Islam?

 

[Jim Parker]

If Cain had sacrificed his grain when it was harvested God would have accepted it since Cain would have been thinking of God first and foremost.

Heb 9:22 (RSV) Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

The shedding of blood for the covering for sin is symbolized by God giving Adam and Eve animal skins to cover their nakedness. (You can't get an animal skin without shedding it's blood.) (Gen 3:21)

Genesis must be understood in the light of the Torah. (The Law, The Book of Moses) The offering for sin always requires the shedding of blood.

Therefore, no sacrificial offering of grain or vegetables would ever be acceptable.

iakov the fool

 

[JohnDB]

As far as future blood Covenants...
Genesis 15:9-18 discussed how God made a Covenant with Abraham. God himself walked the blood path so the performance of the contract was upon God.
Future generations would sacrifice animals with the blood flowing to remind God to not forget to fulfill his part of performing the Contract with Abraham because of their sins. (It was never"Pay-to-play")

I'm trying to remember the passages in the New Testament that refer to this but I'm drawing a blank at the moment.

Jesus fulfilled and ended this Contract with Abraham with his Crucifixion. (But He also instituted a New Covenant with his blood as well)

 

[reba]

Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

 

[Eugene]

.
In sacrifices what was the significance of an acceptable offering? Did it not represent Christ? Blood was also shed with the covering made for Adam & Eve to clothe their nakedness. (Num 3:21).

Num 19:2 This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke. Other offerings were two lambs without spot of the first year. (Num 28:3) Without spot represented the sinless life that only Christ could offer.

I’m not sure where I first heard this, but Cain’s offering was the work of his hands which Israel continues, whereas Abels’ sacrifice was the only one that God could look upon showing the gift of God toward us; without blood there is no remission. (Heb 9:22).

Israel to this day submits a bloodless sacrifice . Hos 14:2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

 

[ezrider]

Jesus fulfilled and ended this Contract with Abraham with his Crucifixion. (But He also instituted a New Covenant with his blood as well)

Can you please clarify the statement that you made in saying the Jesus fulfilled and ended this contract with Abraham. The new covenant is the contract and covenant that the Lord made with Abraham. The blood of Christ was the offering confirming and consecrating the covenant made with Abraham. So what part of this covenant made with Abraham specifically ended with Jesus? How can an everlasting covenant have and end?

 

[Jim Parker]

As far as future blood Covenants...
Genesis 15:9-18 discussed how God made a Covenant with Abraham. God himself walked the blood path so the performance of the contract was upon God.

The covenant with Abraham was a "royal decree." God promised Abram that he would have a multitude of descendants and then declared His covenant: On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram giving his descendants land, saying, "To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphra'tes, the land of the Ken'ites, the Ken'izzites, the Kad'monites, the Hittites, the Per'izzites, the Reph'aim, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Gir'gashites and the Jeb'usites." (Gen 15:18-21 RSV)

Jesus fulfilled and ended this Contract with Abraham with his Crucifixion.

Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Law of Moses by being the perfect sacrifice for sin. Thus He ended the need for blood sacrifices.
Heb 9:26b (RSV) But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
But that did not end the covenant with Abram for the land.

The new covenant opened the kingdom of God to the nations (gentiles, goyim) who were outside the Suzerain-Vassal treaty of the Old Covenant with Israel. That did not bring an end to the part of that covenant that said, "I ... will be your God, and you shall be my people." (Lev 26:12 RSV) Paul said that "Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." Rom 11:28-29 (NKJV)

iakov the fool

 

[JohnDB]

Can you please clarify the statement that you made in saying the Jesus fulfilled and ended this contract with Abraham. The new covenant is the contract and covenant that the Lord made with Abraham. The blood of Christ was the offering confirming and consecrating the covenant made with Abraham. So what part of this covenant made with Abraham specifically ended with Jesus? How can an everlasting covenant have and end?

OK...what is described in Genesis 15 is a irrevocable covenant between God and Abraham. The number of animals and etc make it irrevocable.
Lets look at Jeremiah 34:18
The men who have violated my covenant and have not fulfilled the terms of the covenant they made before me, I will treat like the calf they cut in two and then walked between its pieces.
Except in the case of Jeremiah the result is the death of the men who made the covenant and not God...
"Walking the blood path" or "Whose garment is spattered with blood at the bottom" is also references to God's walking the blood path.
The result of God's walking the blood path is that as long as God lived...the covenant is in effect. When Jesus (God in human form) died...that ended the contract.

Now what is missing information for most people is what the contract was covering.
Because of the "Cherub with a flaming sword" was actually a reference to Adam and his descendants being responsible for ensuring that repentance was needed for man and God to meet again. (its a hebrewism...just go with it for a minute or two)

Now...the Land that God references in this covenant is a repeat of what was said in Genesis 12 and in other places. But in this section and others what is being referred to is that the Land of the Fertile Crescent is a "type" or symbol of the Temple with Jerusalem being the Holy of Holies. Now Abraham is being promised the sole access to the Temple to meet with God...that if anyone wants to have access to God they must be one of Abraham's descendants or "of his household". It's all about Abraham. That's why later "in the bosom of Abraham" was a reference to being in Heaven.
This being said...what is a "given" in this whole promise is that the "Seed of the Woman" that everyone is hot after is of course going to be one of Abraham's descendants.
So...when the Seed of the Woman dies...basically Jesus has not only fulfilled the Law and it's requirements but is now himself the sole arbiter between man and God. There is no intermediary between man and God any longer. Man can not only handle scripture but a Personal Relationship can exist between man and God. ("Blessed are the Peacemakers for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven" is not a reference to peace between men but actually is a reference to peace between man and God)

So consequently we no longer need to be a descendant of Abraham's in order to have a relationship with God...we can do that without being adopted into the Jewish race to have access to the Holy of Holies to discuss things with God. But Jesus is the gatekeeper to the Holy of Holies and our atonement to allow us to gain access to the real Holy of Holies to talk with the Father...and access to Heaven where there is no Temple because the whole place is the Holy of Holies. The Separation between God and Man will not exist in Heaven.

 

[Corn Pop]

Jew is a race, Islam is a ideology.

 

[Kane Ali]

Good afternoon fellow truth seekers. Though there isn't a whole lot written regarding Cain and Able, we can learn much from what IS written. This post is very intriguing, yet it is only partially correct. Let us consider why.
Cain and Able both received the same teachings about God from their parents, for they both wanted to worship God and to show respect for Him. Yet there was a difference. This post discerned correctly that Cain's sacrifice wasn't genuine and Able's was. However, the rejection had nothing to do with the timing of the sacrifice. The Bible gives us insight into Cain's true heart condition. In Gen. 4:6 God said to cain "...if you turn to doing good, will you not be restored to favor". This helps us to see that Cain had developed a bad heart condition which nullified his sacrifice to God Hebrews 11:4 helps us to reason that Able had faith that one day mankind would be restored to favor and lived a good life. Thus his sacrifices were genuine and true. Cain however sacrificed not due to faith but due to obligation taught to both of them by Adam and Eve. Thus Cain reluctantly offered sacrifice. Therefore, the previous post was partially true. It is our heart condition that truly matters to God. Not what we sacrifice or how often. The type of sacrifice in those days were to symbolize our heart condition. So if we live a life contrary to Godly principles, then our sacrifices and prayers mean nothing and will be rejected Isaiah 1:15. Cain was warned yet his true heart condition manifested itself with his murderous jealousy of his brother. We could not see his heart, yet God could and did. Cain did not take the counsel well. Instead, he acted out what was already in his heart to do.
I do hope this reply gave a clear response to your question.

Cain and Abel – Muslim vs Jew

Why did God reject Cain's sacrifice? Because Cain's sacrifice to God was only an afterthought.

Consider that a harvest occurs in the fall whereas the birth of a lamb happens in the spring. When Abel sacrificed his lamb to God he was thinking of God first and foremost. Cain on the other hand was sacrificing his grain to God at the same time that Abel sacrificed his lamb and because of this Cain could only offer the leftover grain from the preceding year's harvest.

If Cain had sacrificed his grain when it was harvested God would have accepted it since Cain would have been thinking of God first and foremost. As it happened Abel was the one who thought about God first and Cain could only offer old leftover grain that God rejected.

God accepted the trust and belief of the Jewish people and made a covenant with them. Whereas Islam was an afterthought created after God had made a covenant with the Jewish people therefore God rejects Islam in the same way that God rejected Cain's sacrifice … with the same result....Cain murdering Abel …and now believers of Islam are also trying to murder the Jewish people!

Believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ while you are still alive to do so. If you wait until the afterlife to do it it'll be rejected by God just like Cain's sacrifice was rejected because it was only an afterthought …. too little too late.

God Bless

 

[Kane Ali]

HA. I misspelled Abel! Sorry

Good afternoon fellow truth seekers. Though there isn't a whole lot written regarding Cain and Able, we can learn much from what IS written. This post is very intriguing, yet it is only partially correct. Let us consider why.
Cain and Able both received the same teachings about God from their parents, for they both wanted to worship God and to show respect for Him. Yet there was a difference. This post discerned correctly that Cain's sacrifice wasn't genuine and Able's was. However, the rejection had nothing to do with the timing of the sacrifice. The Bible gives us insight into Cain's true heart condition. In Gen. 4:6 God said to cain "...if you turn to doing good, will you not be restored to favor". This helps us to see that Cain had developed a bad heart condition which nullified his sacrifice to God Hebrews 11:4 helps us to reason that Able had faith that one day mankind would be restored to favor and lived a good life. Thus his sacrifices were genuine and true. Cain however sacrificed not due to faith but due to obligation taught to both of them by Adam and Eve. Thus Cain reluctantly offered sacrifice. Therefore, the previous post was partially true. It is our heart condition that truly matters to God. Not what we sacrifice or how often. The type of sacrifice in those days were to symbolize our heart condition. So if we live a life contrary to Godly principles, then our sacrifices and prayers mean nothing and will be rejected Isaiah 1:15. Cain was warned yet his true heart condition manifested itself with his murderous jealousy of his brother. We could not see his heart, yet God could and did. Cain did not take the counsel well. Instead, he acted out what was already in his heart to do.
I do hope this reply gave a clear response to your question.

 

[Jim Parker]

In Gen. 4:6 God said to cain "...if you turn to doing good, will you not be restored to favor".

What translation says that?
The NKJV renders the passage as follows: Gen 4:3-7
And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the LORD. Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the LORD respected Abel and his offering, but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell. So the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? “If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”

Cain however sacrificed not due to faith but due to obligation taught to both of them by Adam and Eve. Thus Cain reluctantly offered sacrifice.

The passage does not support those conclusions.

jut sayin'

iakove the fool