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Bible Study CALLING ALL BIBLE STUDY ENTHUSIASTS! Come and join us for an indepth study of the Book of Deut.

V.39 explains those who will enter the promised land. Since the adults rebelled against the Lord, they would die off in the wilderness, but their children, since they don't know good & evil, they will have the honor to go in under the leadership of Joshua. He and Caleb were the only ones who believed the Lord.....Here we have the beginning of setting the "age of accountability" for a child. Later on, we will see the exact age.

The age of those who died in the wilderness was mentioned in Numbers.

As I live, declares the Lord, what you have said in my hearing I will do to you: your dead bodies shall fall in this wilderness, and of all your number, listed in the census from twenty years old and upwards, who have grumbled against me, not one shall come into the land where I swore that I would make you dwell, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun. But your little ones, who you said would become a prey, I will bring in, and they shall know the land that you have rejected. (Num. 14:28-31)
I don't think this has to do with the age of accountability as much as with the age at which men could go to battle.

The TOG​
 
The age of those who died in the wilderness was mentioned in Numbers.

As I live, declares the Lord, what you have said in my hearing I will do to you: your dead bodies shall fall in this wilderness, and of all your number, listed in the census from twenty years old and upwards, who have grumbled against me, not one shall come into the land where I swore that I would make you dwell, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun. But your little ones, who you said would become a prey, I will bring in, and they shall know the land that you have rejected. (Num. 14:28-31)
I don't think this has to do with the age of accountability as much as with the age at which men could go to battle.

The TOG​

Yep! you are absolutely right my friend. The age of accountability can be up to 19, but I'm not sure as that would be right. Personally, I favor up to 12. We can discuss this in some other forum maybe.
 
Yep! you are absolutely right my friend. The age of accountability can be up to 19, but I'm not sure as that would be right. Personally, I favor up to 12. We can discuss this in some other forum maybe.
bar and bat mitzvah age is 13 not 12.
 
Here's something I put in the study I mentioned earlier.

Deuteronomy as a whole is arranged along the same lines as a type of Ancient Near Eastern covenant called a suzerainty covenant, which is a covenant made between a great king and a vassal whom he had conquered. Such treaties started with a preamble naming the people involved and the location and time the covenant was made, followed by a historical account telling how the two kings came to be in their current relationship. Then came the main body of the covenant naming the rights and obligations for both parties. Finally there was a section detailing consequences of keeping or breaking the covenant, which often included blessings and curses.

The first five verses of Deuteronomy are the preamble and tell who is involved (God and Israel) and where and when the covenant was made. The next three chapters comprise the historical section, telling how they had come to be where they were.
God is the Great King, and we are his vassals. Deuteronomy explains our relationship to Him.

The TOG​
 
Thanks Jason. If 13 is considered an adult, then 12 would still be a child, right? Only children at the time of Moses decree were considered worthy to enter, right?
yes, but they were over 20 per the bible, they also weren't circumcised nor taught much on the torah.
 
vassal
:
a person under the protection of a feudal lord to whom he has vowed homage and fealty : a feudal tenant
2
: one in a subservient or subordinate position
vassal adjective

and back to Deuteronomy we go....:yes
 
Some more from my study...

The Lord our God said to us in Horeb, ‘You have stayed long enough at this mountain.
(Deu. 1:6)​

Moses was not talking to the same generation he had talked to at Mt. Sinai, and he was giving an account of how this generation had gotten there. It was about what God had done for them, not their fathers.

And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God: ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living. (Matt. 22:31-32)​

Although God had done miracles for the previous generation, He had done wonders in the sight of this generation as well. When we read of the things He did in the Bible, we must remember that He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. He didn't only do miracles thousands of years ago, but also today. Even though we may never see the ground open up before our eyes or have a literal pillar of cloud and fire to guide us, we can know that He is still God today and He loves us and is working on our behalf.

The TOG​
 
Because Israel rebelled against the Lord in seizing the promised land, as punishment, God made them wander in the wilderness for 40 years going around Mt. Horeb.

40 years seems VERY excessive for an 11 day journey! What was their problem!? How could they rebel considering EVERYTHING God did for them?
 
Deuteronomy is an awesome book! I'm reading it now on my way through the OT again. This will be sweet.
 
It is interesting to see that ultimately, out of probably close to seven hundred fifty thousand people, only 2 (with their families of course) actually used their faith to receive what God had promised (the Promised Land with the Blessing of the Lord) while the rest could not get it because of their unbelief at God's Word (Hebrews 3 and 4).
 
Deu 1:10 The LORD your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude.
Deu 1:11 (The LORD God of your fathers make you a thousand times so many more as ye are, and bless you, as he hath promised you!)

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Those of you who deal in the numbers in scripture of what value/meaning is there to a number squared?

I'm not sure what you're hinting at with the squared Rebs 144000 has no whole square root. We do see an interesting parallel with the New Jerusalem though which is a 12,000 furlong sided cube ( some say pyramid but the Holiest of Holies in the Temple was also a cube). This means there are 12 perimeter "corners" x 12000 furlong = 144000 furlong :).
 
It is also amazing that God dealt with the Israelites according to His covenant with Abraham; it is the only reason He did what He did, He had hesed with them, being Abraham's seed, and they had the Blessing on them, though they knew it not.
Look at how fast Isaac essentially got Jacob and Esau out of the knowledge of the Blessing - 1 generation - to the point where Esau thinks the Blessing is worth less than a bowl of red soup (he still had the Blessing by birth but had no understanding of what it was according to Genesis 1:28, Genesis 12:1-3, Genesis 13:2, Genesis 24:35)...multiply that out over many generations and you can imagine how it was that not one person called out to God for help for 400 years.
It all changed when God said He was ready to make them that nation of priests and they said in Hebrew, "We are well-able to do whatever God commands" and they went from receiving the Blessing from God by grace as Abraham did, to what it took to earn it and that was when God separated from them and all those rules of what was good and what was evil came into play...the tree of the knowledge of good and evil again, and again, it was not God's will...
Thank God for Jesus' finished work, and bringing us back to receiving like Abraham did, by grace, on what Jesus deserves...
 
40 years seems VERY excessive for an 11 day journey! What was their problem!? How could they rebel considering EVERYTHING God did for them?

If I am to be charitable then I can't really believe the Israelites rebelled because they were any more evil than someone like me. I'm sure they had their reasons; reasonable reasons that lead me to believe that the miracles done for them during their Exodus were a lot more subtle than the Hollywood versions we imagine today. Even now it is easy to ascribe our own personal circumstances, whether good or bad, to luck, coincidence, karma, original sin, secret sin, even our own skill and cunning or lack thereof, so that we don't necessarily identify the hand of God in our daily lives.
 
Chapter 2 today .... kiwidan .. Read the chapter and join in.. keeping a forum Bible Study strictly on track is difficult . At the same time we do not wish to exclude anyone thoughts on the subject of Deuteronomy.
 
Here's something I put in the study I mentioned earlier.

Deuteronomy as a whole is arranged along the same lines as a type of Ancient Near Eastern covenant called a suzerainty covenant, which is a covenant made between a great king and a vassal whom he had conquered. Such treaties started with a preamble naming the people involved and the location and time the covenant was made, followed by a historical account telling how the two kings came to be in their current relationship. Then came the main body of the covenant naming the rights and obligations for both parties. Finally there was a section detailing consequences of keeping or breaking the covenant, which often included blessings and curses.

The first five verses of Deuteronomy are the preamble and tell who is involved (God and Israel) and where and when the covenant was made. The next three chapters comprise the historical section, telling how they had come to be where they were.
God is the Great King, and we are his vassals. Deuteronomy explains our relationship to Him.

The TOG​

I just wanted to do a copy paste of what Rashi has to say about Deuteronomy 1:1 It is very interesting.
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9965#showrashi=true

These are the words which Moses spoke to all Israel on that side of the Jordan in the desert, in the plain opposite the Red Sea, between Paran and Tofel and Lavan and Hazeroth and Di Zahav.

These are the words: Since these are words of rebuke and he [Moses] enumerates here all the places where they angered the Omnipresent, therefore it makes no explicit mention of the incidents [in which they transgressed], but rather merely alludes to them, [by mentioning the names of the places] out of respect for Israel (cf. Sifrei).
אלה הדברים: לפי שהן דברי תוכחות ומנה כאן כל המקומות שהכעיסו לפני המקום בהן, לפיכך סתם את הדברים והזכירם ברמז מפני כבודן של ישראל:
to all Israel: If he had rebuked only some of them, those who were in the marketplace [i.e., absent] might have said, “You heard from [Moses] the son of Amram, and did not answer a single word regarding this and that; had we been there, we would have answered him!” Therefore, he assembled all of them, and said to them, “See, you are all here; if anyone has an answer, let him answer!” - [from Sifrei]
אל כל ישראל: אילו הוכיח מקצתן, היו אלו שבשוק אומרים, אתם הייתם שומעים מבן עמרם ולא השיבותם דבר מכך וכך, אילו היינו שם היינו משיבים אותו, לכך כנסם כולם ואמר להם הרי כולכם כאן כל מי שיש לו תשובה ישיב:
in the desert: [At that time]they were not in the desert, but in the plains of Moab. [Accordingly,] what is [the meaning of] בַּמִּדְבָּר, in the desert? It means that he rebuked them for their having angered Him in the desert by saying, “If only we had died [by the hand of God]” (Exod. 16:3).במדבר: לא במדבר היו אלא בערבות מואב, ומהו במדבר, אלא בשביל מה שהכעיסוהו במדבר שאמרו (שמות טז ג) מי יתן מותנו וגו':
in the plain: in the plain [He rebuked them] regarding the plain, for they had sinned with [the worship of] Baal-Peor at Shittim in the plains of Moab (Num. 25:1-9). [from Sifrei]
בערבה: בשביל הערבה שחטאו בבעל פעור בשטים בערבות מואב:
opposite the Red Sea: [He rebuked] them regarding their rebellion at the Red Sea. When they arrived at the Red Sea, they said, “Is it because there are no graves in Egypt [that you have taken us to die in the desert?]” (Exod. 14:11) Likewise, [they sinned] when they traveled from the midst of the sea, as it is said,“and they were rebellious by the sea, by the Red Sea” (Ps. 106:7), as is found in Arachin (15a).מול סוף: על מה שהמרו בים סוף בבואם לים סוף שאמרו (שם יד יא) המבלי אין קברים במצרים, וכן בנסעם מתוך הים, שנאמר (תהלים קו ז) וימרו על ים בים סוף, כדאיתא בערכין (טו א):
Between Paran and Tofel and Lavan: Rabbi Yochanan said: We have reviewed the entire Bible, but we have found no place named Tofel or Lavan! However, [the explanation is that] he rebuked them because of the foolish things they had said (תָּפְלוּ) about the manna, which was white (לָבָן) , saying “And our soul loathes this light bread” (Num. 21:5), and because of what they had done in the desert of Paran through the spies. [from Eileh Hadevarim Rabbah , Lieberman]
בין פארן ובין תפל ולבן: אמר רבי יוחנן [רשב"י] חזרנו על כל המקרא ולא מצינו מקום ששמו תופל ולבן, אלא הוכיחן על הדברים שתפלו על המן שהוא לבן, שאמרו (במדבר כא ה) ונפשנו קצה בלחם הקלוקל ועל מה שעשו במדבר פארן על ידי המרגלים:
and Hazeroth: Concerning the insurrection of Korach [which took place in Hazeroth] (Eileh Hadevarim Rabbah , Lieberman). Another explanation: He said to them, “You should have learned from what I did to Miriam at Hazeroth because of slander; [nevertheless,] you spoke against the Omnipresent” (Sifrei).וחצרות: במחלוקתו של קרח. דבר אחר אמר להם, היה לכם ללמוד ממה שעשיתי למרים בחצרות בשביל לשון הרע, ואתם נדברתם במקום:
and Di-Zahav: (lit., enough gold). He rebuked them for the calf they had made as a result of their abundance of gold, as it is said: “and I gave her much silver and gold, but they made it for Baal” (Hosea 2:10). (cf. Sifrei ; Ber. 32a, Eileh Hadevarim Rabbah , Lieberman).
 
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