Bible Study CALLING ALL BIBLE STUDY ENTHUSIASTS! Come and join us for an indepth study of the Book of Deut.

[Chopper]

yes, but they were over 20 per the bible, they also weren't circumcised nor taught much on the torah.

I understand what you are saying about entering the promised land. I think that the age whereby a child dies, does that child enter heaven. I would think that that age would be much lower than 20. 12 seems more reasonable to me.

 

[TOG]

Here's what I wrote in my study of Deuteronomy 2.

This week's section continues with the historical preamble that started last week. One of the things we see is God giving away pieces of land. It is common knowledge that God gave the land of Canaan to the Israelites, but here we see that He also gave the land south of the Dead Sea to the descendants of Esau and the land east of the Dead Sea to the descendants of Lot. What we learn from this is something that every Christian knows, but which is easy to forget - that not only the land of Israel, but the whole earth belongs to God and He can give pieces of it to anyone He chooses. But it's not just land.

I have no need of a bull from your stall
or of goats from your pens,
for every animal of the forest is mine,
and the cattle on a thousand hills.
I know every bird in the mountains,
and the insects in the fields are mine.
If I were hungry I would not tell you,
for the world is mine, and all that is in it. (Ps. 50:9-12)​

It is tempting to think that, because we paid for something with money we earned, therefore that thing belongs to us, the fact is that it doesn't belong to us at all. Everything belongs to God and everything we have is given to us by God.

Materialism is a big problem today. Malcolm Forbes once said “He who dies with the most toys wins”. Forbes had a lot of toys when he died. Among other things, he owned a private Boeing 727 jet, a collection of Harley Davidson motorcycles, a number of yachts, a French Château, a collection of hot air balloons, a huge art collection and much more. He hosted his 70th birthday party at a palace in Morocco. He chartered a Boeing 747, a DC-8 and a Concord to fly 800 rich and famous guests from London and New York. Guests included actors, actresses, CEOs and politicians. All in all, the party cost two and a half million dollars. Six months later Malcolm Forbes died of a heart attack. When it was too late, he found out that he who dies with the most toys still dies.

But that's what happens when our possessions are the most important things in our lives. We strive for more and more things and end up having nothing when we die. In the end, our possessions are worthless to us. But that doesn't mean that material possessions are bad in and of themselves. Material possessions were among the blessings He promised His people.

The LORD will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to. (Deu. 28:8)​

The LORD will grant you abundant prosperity (Deu. 28:11)​

And poverty was one of the curses He warned about.

Because you did not serve the LORD your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity, therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the LORD sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you. (Deu. 28:47-48)​

Material things aren't bad, as long as they are given their proper priority. When we realize that everything we have comes from God and, in fact, belongs to Him, it enables us to see our possessions in a different light. We see them, not as things we have made, earned or bought for our own use, but as gifts from God to be used as He decides.
​

I would appreciate it if you all told me what you think.

The TOG​

 

[reba]

The way i am seeing Chapt 2 .... Moses is reminding them about how God cared for them through their whining and complaining. He is reminding them how God keeps His promises. God gave them food and water.... MANNA from Heaven and Living water from the ROCK.
Showing how through obedience/trust the battles are won.. We also see ...
Deu 2:30 But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the LORD thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day.
.. God is in control

 

[Chopper]

Chapter 2 There is a great message in V.3 "You have been traveling around this mountain country long enough". This is a great message to Christians today. If we rebel against the Commands of Jesus, (If you love Me, keep My Commands). I wonder how many times in my Christian life that forward motion in the ministry that Jesus gave me was halted because of my stubborn nature to do things my way instead of waiting on God for His way. I wonder how many times I had to travel around the mountain of disobedience until I realized I wasn't on Jesus' intended path. Unfortunately, there will be test after test until I wake up. Jesus will then, place me back on the road to my Promised Land.

It is interesting that Israel lacked nothing in their wanderings, even though they rebelled at times. God is faithful!

For 38 years they wandered until the adult men died off, for God was not willing that they enter the the new land because fear overshadowed the command of God and His assurance that He would see to their success.

The defeat of Sihon begins the conquest of the Promised Land. It's as if this is a practice round for entering that new land. The destruction of that property, men, women, and children was a preview of what would happen while God had the fighting men of Israel clear this new land of all the squatters.

 

[reba]

TOG

 

[Edward]

I understand what you are saying about entering the promised land. I think that the age whereby a child dies, does that child enter heaven. I would think that that age would be much lower than 20. 12 seems more reasonable to me.

If I remember right, wasn't the age 20 to 50 according to Deuteronomy? That may have been for war, I'm not sure.

 

[TOG]

If I remember right, wasn't the age 20 to 50 according to Deuteronomy? That may have been for war, I'm not sure.

30 - 50 was the age the priests served in the Tabernacle. The age for going to war was 20, but I don't remember an upper age limit.

The TOG​

 

[Chopper]

40 years seems VERY excessive for an 11 day journey! What was their problem!? How could they rebel considering EVERYTHING God did for them?

They rebelled against what God wanted them to do. They continually griped and complained. They were disobedient to God's commands. It all started with spy's going into the Promised land, they came out saying it was impossible to enter. Joshua and Caleb were the only ones who wanted to go in because they trusted the Lord to fight for them. God was angry because of the majority, and made them wander until all those adult men who refused would die off, and Joshua and Caleb would take the remaining children, now adult men of war, into this new land.

 

[Chopper]

Here's what I wrote in my study of Deuteronomy 2.

This week's section continues with the historical preamble that started last week. One of the things we see is God giving away pieces of land. It is common knowledge that God gave the land of Canaan to the Israelites, but here we see that He also gave the land south of the Dead Sea to the descendants of Esau and the land east of the Dead Sea to the descendants of Lot. What we learn from this is something that every Christian knows, but which is easy to forget - that not only the land of Israel, but the whole earth belongs to God and He can give pieces of it to anyone He chooses. But it's not just land.

I have no need of a bull from your stall
or of goats from your pens,
for every animal of the forest is mine,
and the cattle on a thousand hills.
I know every bird in the mountains,
and the insects in the fields are mine.
If I were hungry I would not tell you,
for the world is mine, and all that is in it. (Ps. 50:9-12)​

It is tempting to think that, because we paid for something with money we earned, therefore that thing belongs to us, the fact is that it doesn't belong to us at all. Everything belongs to God and everything we have is given to us by God.

Materialism is a big problem today. Malcolm Forbes once said “He who dies with the most toys wins”. Forbes had a lot of toys when he died. Among other things, he owned a private Boeing 727 jet, a collection of Harley Davidson motorcycles, a number of yachts, a French Château, a collection of hot air balloons, a huge art collection and much more. He hosted his 70th birthday party at a palace in Morocco. He chartered a Boeing 747, a DC-8 and a Concord to fly 800 rich and famous guests from London and New York. Guests included actors, actresses, CEOs and politicians. All in all, the party cost two and a half million dollars. Six months later Malcolm Forbes died of a heart attack. When it was too late, he found out that he who dies with the most toys still dies.

But that's what happens when our possessions are the most important things in our lives. We strive for more and more things and end up having nothing when we die. In the end, our possessions are worthless to us. But that doesn't mean that material possessions are bad in and of themselves. Material possessions were among the blessings He promised His people.

The LORD will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to. (Deu. 28:8)
The LORD will grant you abundant prosperity (Deu. 28:11)​

And poverty was one of the curses He warned about.

Because you did not serve the LORD your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity, therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the LORD sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you. (Deu. 28:47-48)​

Material things aren't bad, as long as they are given their proper priority. When we realize that everything we have comes from God and, in fact, belongs to Him, it enables us to see our possessions in a different light. We see them, not as things we have made, earned or bought for our own use, but as gifts from God to be used as He decides.​

I would appreciate it if you all told me what you think.

The TOG​

Very good post TOG, all very true. At the reading of a rich man's will, someone asked, how much did he leave? The answer was "everything!"

 

[NeedTheLord]

Thank You, Lord God, For brothers and sisters! And Thank You Lord God of Heaven and Earth for Revealing Your Word: Lead and Guide us Into All Truth, Whew-Wisdom and Understanding. I Ask Use This In Our Walk With You, O Lord. And In All the Endeavors That You Have Given Into Our Hands. In The Name of Jesus, I pray. In Awe of You, O Lord God, over and over again. How You prove to us that You knew us before we were born sending Your Word that is Truth and Life to us.

New King James Version: Chapter 1 v. 30 "The Lord your God, who goes before you, He will fight for you, according to all He did for you in Egypt before your eyes, and in the wilderness where you saw how the Lord your God carried you, as a man carries his son, in all the way that you went until you came to this place,"

Chapter 2: v. 7 "For the Lord your God has blessed you in all the work of your hand. He knows your trudging through this great wilderness. These forty years the Lord your God has been with you; you have lacked nothing."

And yet there are times that we Chapter1:32 "Yet, for all that, you did not believe the Lord your God,

Lord, Thank You That You Are Speaking to me! I have been so encouraged in taking part and being a part of Studying Your Word.

 

[agua.]

Chapter 2 There is a great message in V.3 "You have been traveling around this mountain country long enough". This is a great message to Christians today. If we rebel against the Commands of Jesus, (If you love Me, keep My Commands). I wonder how many times in my Christian life that forward motion in the ministry that Jesus gave me was halted because of my stubborn nature to do things my way instead of waiting on God for His way. I wonder how many times I had to travel around the mountain of disobedience until I realized I wasn't on Jesus' intended path. Unfortunately, there will be test after test until I wake up. Jesus will then, place me back on the road to my Promised Land.

It is interesting that Israel lacked nothing in their wanderings, even though they rebelled at times. God is faithful!

For 38 years they wandered until the adult men died off, for God was not willing that they enter the the new land because fear overshadowed the command of God and His assurance that He would see to their success.

The defeat of Sihon begins the conquest of the Promised Land. It's as if this is a practice round for entering that new land. The destruction of that property, men, women, and children was a preview of what would happen while God had the fighting men of Israel clear this new land of all the squatters.

Cool !

Choppy do you think Yahweh caused the attitude of Sihon or simply revealed it; and how does this compare to our enemies and battles ?

 

[Edward]

They rebelled against what God wanted them to do. They continually griped and complained. They were disobedient to God's commands. It all started with spy's going into the Promised land, they came out saying it was impossible to enter. Joshua and Caleb were the only ones who wanted to go in because they trusted the Lord to fight for them. God was angry because of the majority, and made them wander until all those adult men who refused would die off, and Joshua and Caleb would take the remaining children, now adult men of war, into this new land.

I remember that and it gave me a start when I read it. They angered the Lord with their murmuring and disbelief. They had already seen so many miracles done by the Lord for them and then would doubt that they could take the land that was promised? Whoa. No wonder God got angry. When I feel frustrated about life's little difficulties, I remember this and keep my trap shut. Praise the Lord for everything, one day at a time. :yes

 

[AirDancer]

As we're told in Ecclesiastes,

1:9 - That which has been is that which will be, And that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun. (NASB)

Just as the people rebelled, whined and complained during those years, so it goes today.

 

[Deborah13]

Here's what I wrote in my study of Deuteronomy 2.

This week's section continues with the historical preamble that started last week. One of the things we see is God giving away pieces of land. It is common knowledge that God gave the land of Canaan to the Israelites, but here we see that He also gave the land south of the Dead Sea to the descendants of Esau and the land east of the Dead Sea to the descendants of Lot. What we learn from this is something that every Christian knows, but which is easy to forget - that not only the land of Israel, but the whole earth belongs to God and He can give pieces of it to anyone He chooses. But it's not just land.

I have no need of a bull from your stall
or of goats from your pens,
for every animal of the forest is mine,
and the cattle on a thousand hills.
I know every bird in the mountains,
and the insects in the fields are mine.
If I were hungry I would not tell you,
for the world is mine, and all that is in it. (Ps. 50:9-12)​

It is tempting to think that, because we paid for something with money we earned, therefore that thing belongs to us, the fact is that it doesn't belong to us at all. Everything belongs to God and everything we have is given to us by God.

Materialism is a big problem today. Malcolm Forbes once said “He who dies with the most toys wins”. Forbes had a lot of toys when he died. Among other things, he owned a private Boeing 727 jet, a collection of Harley Davidson motorcycles, a number of yachts, a French Château, a collection of hot air balloons, a huge art collection and much more. He hosted his 70th birthday party at a palace in Morocco. He chartered a Boeing 747, a DC-8 and a Concord to fly 800 rich and famous guests from London and New York. Guests included actors, actresses, CEOs and politicians. All in all, the party cost two and a half million dollars. Six months later Malcolm Forbes died of a heart attack. When it was too late, he found out that he who dies with the most toys still dies.

But that's what happens when our possessions are the most important things in our lives. We strive for more and more things and end up having nothing when we die. In the end, our possessions are worthless to us. But that doesn't mean that material possessions are bad in and of themselves. Material possessions were among the blessings He promised His people.

The LORD will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to. (Deu. 28:8)
The LORD will grant you abundant prosperity (Deu. 28:11)​

And poverty was one of the curses He warned about.

Because you did not serve the LORD your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity, therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the LORD sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you. (Deu. 28:47-48)​

Material things aren't bad, as long as they are given their proper priority. When we realize that everything we have comes from God and, in fact, belongs to Him, it enables us to see our possessions in a different light. We see them, not as things we have made, earned or bought for our own use, but as gifts from God to be used as He decides.​

I would appreciate it if you all told me what you think.

The TOG​

I'm enjoying your posts a lot. :yes Very informative.

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

Here's what I wrote in my study of Deuteronomy 2.

This week's section continues with the historical preamble that started last week. One of the things we see is God giving away pieces of land. It is common knowledge that God gave the land of Canaan to the Israelites, but here we see that He also gave the land south of the Dead Sea to the descendants of Esau and the land east of the Dead Sea to the descendants of Lot. What we learn from this is something that every Christian knows, but which is easy to forget - that not only the land of Israel, but the whole earth belongs to God and He can give pieces of it to anyone He chooses. But it's not just land.

I have no need of a bull from your stall
or of goats from your pens,
for every animal of the forest is mine,
and the cattle on a thousand hills.
I know every bird in the mountains,
and the insects in the fields are mine.
If I were hungry I would not tell you,
for the world is mine, and all that is in it. (Ps. 50:9-12)​

It is tempting to think that, because we paid for something with money we earned, therefore that thing belongs to us, the fact is that it doesn't belong to us at all. Everything belongs to God and everything we have is given to us by God.

Materialism is a big problem today. Malcolm Forbes once said “He who dies with the most toys wins”. Forbes had a lot of toys when he died. Among other things, he owned a private Boeing 727 jet, a collection of Harley Davidson motorcycles, a number of yachts, a French Château, a collection of hot air balloons, a huge art collection and much more. He hosted his 70th birthday party at a palace in Morocco. He chartered a Boeing 747, a DC-8 and a Concord to fly 800 rich and famous guests from London and New York. Guests included actors, actresses, CEOs and politicians. All in all, the party cost two and a half million dollars. Six months later Malcolm Forbes died of a heart attack. When it was too late, he found out that he who dies with the most toys still dies.

But that's what happens when our possessions are the most important things in our lives. We strive for more and more things and end up having nothing when we die. In the end, our possessions are worthless to us. But that doesn't mean that material possessions are bad in and of themselves. Material possessions were among the blessings He promised His people.

The LORD will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to. (Deu. 28:8)
The LORD will grant you abundant prosperity (Deu. 28:11)​

And poverty was one of the curses He warned about.

Because you did not serve the LORD your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity, therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the LORD sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you. (Deu. 28:47-48)​

Material things aren't bad, as long as they are given their proper priority. When we realize that everything we have comes from God and, in fact, belongs to Him, it enables us to see our possessions in a different light. We see them, not as things we have made, earned or bought for our own use, but as gifts from God to be used as He decides.​

I would appreciate it if you all told me what you think.

The TOG​

You know, I noticed that one of my clients I was speaking with about God's will being your prosperity (since He delights in it after all, Psalm 35:27, among all the other Scriptures), her response was yes, but we don't want to be greedy. And she told me about some preacher that had 2 homes and she started to say what does he need with 2 homes, and then she said, well I guess maybe there's something I don't know, and then she finished again by saying yes, but we have to make sure we're not greedy.
Her thinking is where many Christians seem to back off from the Kingdom of God, mainly because of the lies of the Devil about prosperity (prosperity is God's idea, just like money, gold, diamonds, rubies, (as well as music, sex, cars, airplanes, etc) and the Devil tries to twist them all to appear to be something bad (but then he tries to get all those goods over to his people so that the people of God have none)).
SO the answer is, #1, who made man judge to determine how many homes someone can have? And #2, if you live in fear of appearing greedy by having and enjoying more than enough then you will miss it and miss out. Because you then fall into to the Devil's snare of: how much is greedy? What is the dollar limit? No matter how much you have someone will always have less, and are you then greedy to have more?
Of course not, because how can you help ANYONE or be a blessing to anyone if you don't have enough - your ministry begins AFTER all your needs are met, it is out of the overflow that you have excess to be able to give away, to sow.
By this logic then, is God greedy? For He has greater wealth than anyone while many don't have enough, even His own people...yet we know that it is not wrong, for Abel had much and Cain did not, but God's answer to Cain was not, "Take from Abel and give to yourself so you have enough and increase too" but rather He corrected Cain and told him that if he did what he was supposed to do, he too would receive the blessing poured out on him and he would prosper like his brother.

It is the same today and it was what God was saying in Deuteronomy all the way through. That's why there were poor among them and poor among the Believers today - for lack of knowledge or for refusal to do what is right (not referring to sin, but to the ways and methods of God's Kingdom)...But God's will is prosperity, through the Blessing of the Lord/Abraham (Prov 10:22, Gal 3:13-14).

Deut 2:25 is awesome to see. God does the same thing today (looking ahead at Deut 28), like Psalm 5:12 and then you read over in Joshua later that the people give him a report and he finds out that the fear of them had been upon all these people all the time, even the giants! We should expect God to elevate us as His people for His glory that people would know of a certainty that we are His peculiar people, His treasured possession, the Blessed of the Lord, that they would want to join the flock of the Good Shepherd.

 

[jasonc]

I understand what you are saying about entering the promised land. I think that the age whereby a child dies, does that child enter heaven. I would think that that age would be much lower than 20. 12 seems more reasonable to me.

my pastor got saved at age 3. I know what sin was at age 10. I knew that my thoughts of liking boys was wrong and as sin. I might have been a jw then but I did know that there was sin and I was in need of forgiveness by Jehovah.

 

[TOG]

No matter how much you have someone will always have less, and are you then greedy to have more?
Of course not, because how can you help ANYONE or be a blessing to anyone if you don't have enough - your ministry begins AFTER all your needs are met, it is out of the overflow that you have excess to be able to give away, to sow.

Notice the part I put in bold. That's how you define greed. It's not how much you have or how much you want, but how you use it. It was just earlier this year that I heard about a homeless guy in Holland who won in the lottery. When he was asked what he was going to do with the money, he didn't say he would buy a big house or a car or travel around the world. He said he was going to start a ministry to help other homeless people. He was only going to use what he actually needed for himself, and use the rest to help others. He was not greedy. Many others who win in the lottery use the money to buy a second or even third home, buy a private jet and travel all over the world to enjoy themselves and never use the money to help anyone else. That's greed.

The TOG​

 

[Chopper]

Cool !

Choppy do you think Yahweh caused the attitude of Sihon or simply revealed it; and how does this compare to our enemies and battles ?

Hi there my friend, According to 2:30 "For the Lord your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate", Yep, Yahweh caused it. What power our God has even over those who despise us.

 

[jasonc]

ah, I wont go into Calvinism and the problem with that here.

 

[Chopper]

ATTENTION! What Jason just posted is very important! During our study of Deuteronomy, we will come into contact with Biblical positions or theories which should not be discussed at length in this Forum. We should start a new thread to discuss that position or theory.

I have started a new thread in the "Apologists & Theology" on the subject of "being a pacifist" of which I mentioned in Chapter 3.