Bible Study CALLING ALL BIBLE STUDY ENTHUSIASTS! Come and join us for an indepth study of the Book of Deut.

[jasonc]

Verse 30
The Lord - shall fight for you - In the Targum of Onkelos, it is, the Word of the Lord shall fight for you. In a great number of places the Targums or Chaldee paraphrases use the term מימרא דיי (meimera dayeya) or (Yehovah), the Word of the Lord, exactly in the same way in which St. John uses the term Λογος (Logos) in the first chapter of his Gospel. Many instances of this have already occurred

I never read that from him but I kinda put that together from pastor skip hitzig

 

[Chopper]

Chapter 3 This Chapter reminds me of a conversation with my Son Skip. We have discussed many times the people who believe in non-violence or pacifism because they are Christian. They only focus on the love of God, not a fighting God. We find that these people read only the N.T. and leave the O.T. alone....I have created a new thread on this subject in the "Apologists & Theology Forum to discuss this position.

Skip and I see V.22 "You shall not fear them, for it is the Lord your God who fights for you".

We have come to the conclusion that in viewing our wonderful God, there has to be a balance between the love of God and the God of war.

V.26 We see a heart wrenching plea from Moses wanting to see the Promised Land. Sometimes God says "enough from you; do not speak to me of this matter again"....Sometimes we persist in asking God for something that is not His will, we should remember this.

 

[TOG]

When I my study I've mentioned here a few times, it was for a pen pal of mine in South Africa. I did one study a week and sent it to her. I started on Genesis 1 and got all the way to Deuteronomy 6 before she somehow disappeared into the ether and I haven't heard from her since. Each study was not necessarily a single chapter. This particular week it was only 7 verses (Deu. 3:23-29), but there's a lot to be learned from those few verses.

This week's section is short, but has a lot to teach us about God. Here we have a prayer by the man of whom it was said that God spoke to him face to face, as a man speaks with his neighbour (Ex. 33:11). But in spite of how close his fellowship with God was, and in spite of all the things that had happened over the last 40 years, God denied Moses' request.

His request seems reasonable. He had been leading the people through the wilderness for four decades, and now they were almost at their goal. The mountain God told Moses to climb was probably only about 15 km away from the Jordan River. Was it too much to ask to go just a few kilometres more before he died? After all, his disobedience when he struck the rock rather than speaking to it wasn't that bad, was it? God had told him to strike the rock the first time, so it seemed natural to do the same again.

God seems to have disagreed. He was pretty strict about it too.

And the Lord said to me, ‘Enough from you; do not speak to me of this matter again. (Deu. 3:26)​

The Bible doesn’t tell us exactly why God was so strict about this, but it gives us a hint.

But the Lord was angry with me because of you and would not listen to me. (Deu. 3:26)​

Moses had repented and God had forgiven him. But sometimes our actions have consequences that just can't be changed. If God had let Moses lead the Israelites across the Jordan, it would have given them the wrong message. Let's go back a bit and take another look at what happened.

Then Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock, and he said to them, “Hear now, you rebels: shall we bring water for you out of this rock?” And Moses lifted up his hand and struck the rock with his staff twice, and water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their livestock. And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe in me, to uphold me as holy in the eyes of the people of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land that I have given them.” (Num. 20:10-12)​

Not only did Moses strike the rock when he had been told to speak to it, but he also took the credit for himself instead of giving the glory to God. His words seem to imply that it was he and Aaron who provided the water. It was because Moses did not believe that water would come from the rock if he merely spoke to it and because he didn't give God the glory that God told him he would not enter the Promised Land.

We are told that we only need to repent and God will forgive our sins and remember them no more. Why couldn't He do that with Moses? Everybody knew what had happened and that Moses would die along with the rest in the wilderness. If God had changed His mind and let Moses cross the Jordan, then people would have gotten the idea that our actions don't matter, as long as we “repent” afterwards. That's exactly how many Christians see it today. They behave as if their actions don't matter. God understands their weakness and He will forgive them. All they have to do is say the right words and everything will be okay.

God is holy and He cannot let sin go unpunished. Because of His holiness, He had to punish Moses' sin. For the same reason, there also has to be a punishment for our sin. Jesus took the punishment we deserve upon himself when he died on the cross. Thank God for His grace. But our sins may still have consequences. Theft will get you thrown in jail and adultery might mean getting infected with HIV. We have no guarantee that there won't be consequences. We must endeavour to live holy lives, but we do have an advocate who will plead our case before the Father when we do sin.

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (I John 2:1)
​

The TOG

 

[Chopper]

I remember that and it gave me a start when I read it. They angered the Lord with their murmuring and disbelief. They had already seen so many miracles done by the Lord for them and then would doubt that they could take the land that was promised? Whoa. No wonder God got angry. When I feel frustrated about life's little difficulties, I remember this and keep my trap shut. Praise the Lord for everything, one day at a time. :yes

I'm with you old buddy!

 

[reba]

God gave Moses a zillion headaches all those cry babies all coming at him... God is God and what He does is just, i personally cant help but feel He was hard on Moses..

Deu 3:26 But the LORD was wroth with me for your sakes, and would not hear me: and the LORD said unto me, Let it suffice thee; speak no more unto me of this matter.
Deu 3:27 Get thee up into the top of Pisgah, and lift up thine eyes westward, and northward, and southward, and eastward, and behold it with thine eyes: for thou shalt not go over this Jordan.

How often do we keep or kick ourselfs out of the promised land with our lack of trust, disobedience, murmuring, and complaining?

 

[Chopper]

my pastor got saved at age 3. I know what sin was at age 10. I knew that my thoughts of liking boys was wrong and as sin. I might have been a jw then but I did know that there was sin and I was in need of forgiveness by Jehovah.

Oh Jason, I love you my friend. I'm so glad that you walked out of that sin that insults God's creative work in regards to men with men. I believe that the sin you refused, tears at the great heart of Yahweh.

 

[jasonc]

Oh Jason, I love you my friend. I'm so glad that you walked out of that sin that insults God's creative work in regards to men with men. I believe that the sin you refused, tears at the great heart of Yahweh.

I didn't act on that nature until 23. but that is off topic. though there some interesting things I have been told by the holy spirit that I must address. sin is a like a disease. we don't get cured all at once from its effect. we can be saved from it curse but the habits that lead to sin must be addressed. we don't just one day commit adultery. theres something that lead to that sin and that is often not mentioned in testimonies at times.

 

[NeedTheLord]

Ok. I have just discovered that it seems I haven't read any other postings-but I have read all of them! It's like 'revelation' is happening and I'm repeating the same verses. I apologize and at the same time, I'm so excited because there has been something happening in my life that is just a miracle to me and I'm trying to get over The Jordan!!!

God means what He says: I will have no other gods before Me-and very subtly, at times, I've seen how we can hold our own self or others above God. And think we know when it's time to do something or maybe a better way than what The Lord needs to do through us on the earth. Mainly waiting as it seems like it's forever already...Hahaha...As I was studying and searching the scriptures (I have a Bible that references all the other scriptures that pertain to the verse being studied and I found the verse that describes exactly why The Lord did what He did with Moses (why He did not let him into the Promised Land.)

Deuteronomy 3:25 'I pray, let me cross over and see the good land beyond the Jordan, those pleasant mountains, and Lebanon.' [26] "But the Lord was angry with me on your account, and would not listen to me. So the Lord said to me: 'Enough of that! Speak no more to Me of this matter.

Numbers 20 v. 8,11: [8]"Take the rod; you and your brother Aaron gather the congregation together. Speak to the rock before their eyes, and it will yield its water; thus you shall bring water for them out of the rock, and give drink to the congregation and their animals." [11] Then Moses lifted his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod; and water came out abundantly, and the congregation and their animals drank.

Amazing: It's like the verse "Speak to the Mountain" oh my. But Moses didn't obey exactly. That's the one point.

And in Numbers 20:12 then the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, "Because you did not believe (believe: rely on, cling to-Amplified Version) Me, to hallow (hallow: sanctify Me-Amplified Version) in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them."

So the Lord was not sanctified (set apart) by Moses in the eyes of the children of Israel. Love you In Him, N.

Whew. I'm clinging Lord and relying on You-and putting You above all things-to the very best of my ability.

 

[TOG]

If we're doing a chapter a day (which I think is a bit fast), then we're up to chapter 4. Here's what I wrote about that in my study. Since it was part of a series, it sometimes refers to what has come before, but I think it should be easy to follow. I hope it doesn't start to much of a controversy.

Deuteronomy 4

As I mentioned earlier, Deuteronomy is organised like a suzerainty covenant. Now the historical section is finished and the main body, detailing the stipulations of the covenant begins. It starts out with some general guidelines and gets more detailed later. But before that, we are told why we are to obey God's commandments. It is not, as many Christians seem to believe, to be saved. There is no mention of salvation or life after death in the entire Torah. I don't know how the idea started that, before Christ, people were saved by keeping the Law, but it isn't in the Law itself. That's not what it's about. There are a number of places where we are told why we should obey God's law. We have already seen some and will see more, but here are the ones from this weeks reading:

God's commandments are wise

Keep them and do them, for that will be your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples, who, when they hear all these statutes, will say, ‘Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.’ (Deu. 4:6)​

These are not just some arbitrary rules. They actually make sense. We are not always given a reason and we may not always understand, but God's laws always have a good reason behind them. Sometimes it has taken the rest of the world hundreds or even thousands of years to figure out what the Bible has been saying all along. Leviticus says that people are to be considered unclean and must bathe in water after touching a dead body. It wasn't until the mid 19th century that scientists figured out that it was a bad idea for doctors to go straight from an autopsy to the delivery room without washing their hands in between.

To be a witness to the world

Keep them and do them, for that will be your wisdom and your understandingin the sight of the peoples, who, when they hear all these statutes, will say, ‘Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.’ (Deu. 4:6)​

People have a tendency to want to conform to society. They don't want to stand out from the crowd. But that's exactly what we are called to do. We're supposed to be different. When others see us and how we live, they should think “there's something different about these Christians”. Unfortunately, the church has tended to be more influenced by society than society is influenced by the church. The first Christians were different. They weren't like the Jews who followed man-made rules rather than God's law, and they weren't like the pagans who had their own rules and worshipped idols. People noticed and there was a great revival, the likes of which hasn't been seen since. Today it's hard to see any difference between Christians and non-Christians, other than how they spend their Sundays, and people can't figure out why there's no revival.

To demonstrate our relationship with God

For what great nation is there that has a god so near to it as the Lord our God is to us, whenever we call upon him? (Deu. 4:7)​

When people see that we are different, they will want to know why. When they ask, we have an opportunity to witness to them about our relationship with God and tell them that they too can have such a relationship.

God's commandments are righteous

And what great nation is there, that has statutes and rules so righteous as all this law that I set before you today? (Deu. 4:8)​

There are many different cultural areas in the world where different religions have been the primary influence over the centuries. Islam is the primary religion that has influenced the Arab nations, Buddhism in China, Hinduism in India and so on. Although no nation is completely innocent, the ones with the best human rights records and where there is most freedom are the ones where the Bible has been the biggest influence on society.

Verse 6 tells us to “keep them and do them” (i.e. the commandments). This is a phrase Moses uses quite often. In Deuteronomy alone the phrase is used 23 times. What does this phrase mean and what is the difference between keeping the commandments and doing them? Is it maybe just a repetition with different wording for emphasis? Actually, there is a difference that is clearer in the original Hebrew than in English. The word translated as “do” simply means... well... “do”. It means to perform the actions required by the commandments. The word translated as “keep” or “guard” (depending on your translation) is a bit more involved. The word is “shamar” and can mean to keep guard, watch, to take heed, beware or pay heed, among other things. In this context it means that we should be prepared to do the commandments. Some of God's laws require preparation and one good example is the Sabbath. One of the commandments regarding the Sabbath is that cooking is forbidden. Following this commandment requires one to make sure that there is food in house that can either be eaten without cooking or which is cooked before the Sabbath. Being prepared means that the Torah becomes a lifestyle, not just a list of commandments to follow.

Many Christians today say that parts of the Law are no longer valid. We are no longer required to eat only kosher food or to keep the Sabbath for example. But what does God say?

You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you. (Deu. 4:2)​

We are neither to add to nor take away from the Law. That means that we cannot declare parts of the Law invalid. It also means that we can't make new rules and give them the same validity as the commandments of God. The Pharisees did both and Jesus rebuked them for it.

For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold to the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups, and many other like things ye do.”


And He said unto them, “Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. For Moses said, ‘Honor thy father and thy mother,’ and, ‘Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death.’But ye say that if a man shall say to his father or mother, ‘It is Corban’ (that is to say, a gift of whatsoever thou mightest have profited from me), he shall be freed; and ye suffer him no more to do aught for his father or his mother, thus making the Word of God of no effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered. And many like things do ye.” (Mark 7:8-13)​

Unfortunately, the modern church has done the same. We are told that we no longer have to keep the Sabbath or the dietary rules, which God told us to do, but the church also places on people obligations that are not required by the Bible. The most common example of this is tithing. As we have seen, tithes were only agricultural products – either livestock or harvest – and were therefore only required from farmers. But even though only a fraction of people today are farmers, many churches require all their members to pay at least 10% of their wages as a tithe, which has no support in the Bible.

The main concern of this chapter is the prohibition against idolatry. Moses emphasizes that the people saw no physical form at Sinai, but only heard a voice. Moses saw God's back (Ex. 33:22-23), but he left us no description.

It's hard to control what you can't see or feel. Idolatry – giving God a physical form that we can see and handle – is an attempt to control Him. You can take an idol out when you need it and put it away when you don't want it around. God isn't like that. He is the one in control and we must never forget that. This is a good thing that we should not try to change. Even though bad things often happen, we can know that He is in control and He will make sure that everything happens within His will.

The TOG​

 

[Chopper]

Chapter 4 Verses 1 & 2 Set a standard for not only Israel, but for us today. If we obey the "statues & rules of God, we will take possession of whatever God has for us and what we pray for.

Verse 6 explains where wisdom & understanding come from. They come from doing God's statues and rules.

Verse 8 Declares that Gods statues & rules are righteous. Could it be that in the O.T. righteousness came from doing God's commands?

Verse 15 Explains why God never shows man His form, because man would make an image (idol) of it, and bow down to it.

It is interesting that in V.21, Moses shifts some of the blame to the people of why he could not enter the new land.

Verse 30 reveals a prophesy of Israels redemption in the "latter days" of the tribulation.

 

[reba]

Chapter 4 Verses 1 & 2 Set a standard for not only Israel, but for us today. If we obey the "statues & rules of God, we will take possession of whatever God has for us and what we pray for.

 

[reba]

Deu 4:10 Specially the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.
Deu 4:11 And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.
Deu 4:12 And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Deu 4:20 But the LORD hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day

Heb_9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

 

[Chopper]

Deu 4:10 Specially the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.
Deu 4:11 And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.
Deu 4:12 And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Deu 4:20 But the LORD hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day

Heb_9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

:amen

 

[ezrider]

The book of Deuteronomy is a special book to me. The Bible made me aware of the man named Jesus, the gospels gave me the knowledge of the words that he spoke, and declared to me the works that he performed; and I believed. But it was through the book of Deuteronomy that the Lord revealed to me the man Jesus.

reba posted a verse that stands out to me:
Deuteronomy 4:12 And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire:ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.

The Lord spoke, they heard the voice of the word, yet they saw no image. Yet the book of Deuteronomy instructed me in whose voice to hear.

Deuteronomy 18:15-19 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Jesus was that prophet whom the Lord raised up, and it is the words that the Lord put into his mouth, the voice of the word, that we are commanded to hear. When I read the gospels, I hear the voice of those words speak to my heart, yet I saw no similitude.

Deuteronomy 4:15-19 Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the Lord spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth: And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the Lord thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

Isaiah 53:1-2 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

When I read the gospels, it is apparent to me that Jesus never sought adoration, he even shunned it; he always commanded that they should worship God. When he performed miracles, the people praised God, and gave glory to God. When I read these versus in the book of Deuteronomy, I often wonder if the church has not in fact taken the image of the man Jesus, and have made that image their God. Yet the image of the man Jesus is that of a humble servant, and a brother. When I read the red letters, I hear the voice of those words, and that voice is spirit; I see no similitude, but only the voice of the Word.

John 4: 19-24 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what:we know what we worship:for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit:and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Chopper]

The book of Deuteronomy is a special book to me. The Bible made me aware of the man named Jesus, the gospels gave me the knowledge of the words that he spoke, and declared to me the works that he performed; and I believed. But it was through the book of Deuteronomy that the Lord revealed to me the man Jesus.

reba posted a verse that stands out to me:
Deuteronomy 4:12 And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire:ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.

The Lord spoke, they heard the voice of the word, yet they saw no image. Yet the book of Deuteronomy instructed me in whose voice to hear.

Deuteronomy 18:15-19 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Jesus was that prophet whom the Lord raised up, and it is the words that the Lord put into his mouth, the voice of the word, that we are commanded to hear. When I read the gospels, I hear the voice of those words speak to my heart, yet I saw no similitude.

Deuteronomy 4:15-19 Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the Lord spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth: And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the Lord thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

Isaiah 53:1-2 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

When I read the gospels, it is apparent to me that Jesus never sought adoration, he even shunned it; he always commanded that they should worship God. When he performed miracles, the people praised God, and gave glory to God. When I read these versus in the book of Deuteronomy, I often wonder if the church has not in fact taken the image of the man Jesus, and have made that image their God. Yet the image of the man Jesus is that of a humble servant, and a brother. When I read the red letters, I hear the voice of those words, and that voice is spirit; I see no similitude, but only the voice of the Word.

John 4: 19-24 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what:we know what we worship:for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit:and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

ezrider, so good to hear from you again. Thank you for this post. This is so important for us to remember. I agree totally about the picture (image) of Jesus. There are many weak Christians who look at that picture, talk to it and pray to it. Just what God did not want them to do. I wish many people in our Forum would read your post.

I've heard of Catholics that hold their cross that has an image of Jesus on it and say their prayers.

A classic portion of Scripture that speaks to this issue that you have pointed out is John 20:29 "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed; blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed". It's like a lot of so called believers can't really pray or concentrate on living for Christ Jesus unless they have something to hold or look at. That is idolatry, and a great sin against our Savior, IMO.

 

[ezrider]

Thank you Chopper, but the image I speak of is not a picture or a painting, a cross or a statue; It is an image we hold in our hearts. I would say more, but I don't think this thread is the place for that conversation.

 

[reba]

I agree and Thanks ezrider

 

[Eugene]

Rom 4:3 Abraham (I believe 400 years prior to Moses) believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

2 Cor 3:7 (the law is) the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones

Galatians 3:19 . . the law was added because of transgressions . .

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Did Adam and Eve have instruction to receive the covering God provided in Gen 3:21; wasn't that in type Christ? Where did Abel know to present the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof in Gen 4:4? The law had not been given, and we read in Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law . . . for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[agua.]

Deu 4:20 But the LORD hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day

Jesus is good at saving His people from furnaces.

Dan 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

 

[Chopper]

Jesus is good at saving His people from furnaces.

Dan 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.