[_ Old Earth _] Calling all Evolutionist !!

[Quath]

I think the underlying assumption here, is that God is not powerful enough, or wise enough to be able to produce a free will in a naturalistic organism.

My God is certainly capable of that.

Heh. I believe that was Voltaire's argument as well. It is an interesting argument. Many would say you teach heresey, but in essence, they are the ones limiting what God can do.

 

[Barbarian]

Hardly heresy. It is, for example, the doctrine of the largest Christian denomination.

 

[Free]

I've been extremely busy lately and will be so for a bit yet. But I have a little bit of time and found this statement that Quath made today (with my empahsis):

Say that someone put a drink in front of me. I perform a lot of calculations in my brain to decide if I should drink or not. The result of my calculation leads to a decision. However, I am just like a computer making a decision when I do this. I can make a decision, but I am just following programming.

When a computer gets hot, it can slow down its calculation, ramp up its cooling fan, turn off extra peripherals or shut down. So in a sense, the computer has the "free will" to make such a decision. But we don't see it as free will because we understand the "thought process." If we understood the human thought process better, we would see it similar to how we see a computer (just differences in operation).

This is precisely what I was getting at. You all want to deny the obvious conclusion that I stated in my initial post but yet you do believe that we are essentially computers, programmed to make a certain decision based on given data.

Either evolution has programmed certain people to make the choice of believing in religion, or Creationism, and we are not at fault for believing it, or we really do have the free choice. I believe that my initial argument still stands.

 

[Quath]

This is precisely what I was getting at. You all want to deny the obvious conclusion that I stated in my initial post but yet you do believe that we are essentially computers, programmed to make a certain decision based on given data.

Either evolution has programmed certain people to make the choice of believing in religion, or Creationism, and we are not at fault for believing it, or we really do have the free choice. I believe that my initial argument still stands.

I think the flaw in this is the concept of "fault." It is used in 2 ways. One on a global sense in which we are not at fault for what we do because we are like rocks falling down a hill and landing where the laws of physics shows they should land.

On the other level, we use "fault" in our programming to fulfil our programming. We check for internal errors and try to fix them. In this usage, we are at fault for not learning.

There is another kind of "fault" in personal responsibility, but that is subjective. For example, some people may say that hypocracy is a fault, but others may disagree. However, it is a "fault" if you think it is bad and still do it. But globally, you are not at fault for being "designed" as you are.

It all depends on which level you want to talk about the concepts.

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

Free, as an intelligent actor you are capable of changing your opinion at any time, but like any actor there must be some impetus for your actions. All the world is the impetus for the changes that occur within our minds, in the very neural nets our thoughts call home. Whether or not this change is determined by the universe or not is immaterial, it is you who determines part of the changes in yourself, as you are part of the universe. Free will exists, so long as you remember that you are part of the universe that determines your actions.

By the way. Long time no see.

 

[MrVersatile48]

I've put it all to music 4 ya:-

All The Wonders Of The Universe

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=18462

OK..OK..

here they are again:-



DNA alone disproves evolution, period!

viewtopic.php?t=18799&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45

I only have time to post DNA links..

@ pages 114/116 of The Revised & Expanded Answers Book - by the PhD/MSc leaders of http://www.AnswersInGenesis.org - search for their online summary - as @ http://www.creationism.org & http://www.discovery.org/csc

See also pages 59, 107, 110, 112, 117, 122/123 & 186 of Refuting Evolution 2 by AiG's Dr Jonathan Sarfati


As in "Give ToE frauds the Boot" :evil:
viewtopic.php?t=18585

See also Dump Dating Disasters!!!

viewtopic.php?t=18642

& don't miss...

Give it up already!!!!!!

viewtopic.php?t=18666

Or..

Evo Goes To Court...

viewtopic.php?t=18041

Or..

Evo350%loopypoop...

viewtopic.php?t=18429

Not to mention...

the 1 & only......

Double dog D*U*H, Deputy Dawg!!!!

viewtopic.php?t=18687

Enjoy, y'all!!

Ian :-D

 

[Barbarian]

So, it's not part of evolutionary theory, after all? We all knew that already. We were just messing with you, Free.

In fact, you are struggling with the concept of free will in a naturalistic universe. It turns out that God is even great enough to create a universe in which a natural organism (us) evolves a sense of empathy and a knowledge of good and evil.

 

[MrVersatile48]

As I just said elsewhere, links printed are half of what was typed, & don't work :

I'll try to copy what was printed into site search & see if that works.. 8-)

No: even that doesn't work :crazyeyes:

I'll try & trawl thru the menu here & flag 'em up one by one - but it may well take days - maybe other readers feel the call to try? :infinity:

Meanwhile, do see the many learned articles, books, CDs, DVDs etc @ http://www.discovery.org/csc - as I have to run for a bus now :

http://www.discovery.org/csc/essentialReadings.php 8-)

Enjoy the weekend, y'all!

Ian :-D

 

[Barbarian]

Is it possible you can think for yourself, long enough to tell us what you think the best argument is?