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CAN A REFORMED BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM FAITH?

But I know persons that come to God through intellect. Why do you want God in a box?
You can't believe this because of how you view soteriology. I'm much more open.

As the Bible informs us, the intellect of unsaved man will not permit a true understanding of nor belief in Christ as Saviour.
I hold the Bible alone as being God's sole revelation with nothing else as its equal
nor that should anything else be given any credence. So, for me, it's the Bible alone. However, I do believe it acceptable to refer to other sources to assist in helping to explain or clarify the Bible, but those sources must not be taken at face value but instead must pass the scrutiny of the entire Bible for whatever issue is in question before that clarification is accepted as pertinent.


[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
 
What did I say about the word AGAIN?
Do you mean Hebrews 6?
If so, I NEVER said one can't return to God !

But I know persons that come to God through intellect. Why do you want God in a box?
You can't believe this because of how you view soteriology. I'm much more open.

Re the bible. Wonder why you're asking.....

I was raised Catholic,
Became born again in late 20's.
Left the CC.
Attended a Nazarene church.
Very nice.
Left for here.
Involved in Catholicism again.
Long story.
Been studying the bible over 40 years.
Some years ago became interested in church history....met up with the ECFs.

What about you R....
You listen to Calvin, Piper, Luther, Sproul
Or only the bible??

Didn't catch your answer to my question, do you trust in anything outside of the Bible as being on a par with the Bible?
The reason I ask is that if you don't trust in the Bible alone and in its entirety, then we will be speaking different languages regarding things spiritual.
 
As the Bible informs us, the intellect of unsaved man will not permit a true understanding of nor belief in Christ as Saviour.
I hold the Bible alone as being God's sole revelation with nothing else as its equal
nor that should anything else be given any credence. So, for me, it's the Bible alone. However, I do believe it acceptable to refer to other sources to assist in helping to explain or clarify the Bible, but those sources must not be taken at face value but instead must pass the scrutiny of the entire Bible for whatever issue is in question before that clarification is accepted as pertinent.


[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
How are persons saved that do not have the bible?
 
Didn't catch your answer to my question, do you trust in anything outside of the Bible as being on a par with the Bible?
The reason I ask is that if you don't trust in the Bible alone and in its entirety, then we will be speaking different languages regarding things spiritual.
My answer was not in the above post but a different one I think you missed.

My answer is that we're to trust the bible, otherwise we have chaos.
 
Jesus said, "Few there be that find it" Matthew 7:14. Not many will be saved, simply because they don't believe the Gospel. To believe the Gospel you must believe that Jesus has atoned for your sins and that you have been justified. Most are trying to save themselves by their works and their religion, Matthew 7:21-23.
So do you believe that only those that have correct doctrine are saved?
 
Sorry not to beat a dead horse but as I'm kinda dense, trust it alone, and above anything else?
Yes.

But is it the same for you is the question.
Why?
I don't know how anyone could read the bible and walk away believing calvinist doctrine.

For instance, if a person just reads the bible, it's practically impossible to come away with a notion of purgatory. This would have to be taught.

Ditto for unconditional election,
Perseverance of the saints,,,,
 
Yes.

But is it the same for you is the question.
Why?
I don't know how anyone could read the bible and walk away believing calvinist doctrine.

For instance, if a person just reads the bible, it's practically impossible to come away with a notion of purgatory. This would have to be taught.

Ditto for unconditional election,
Perseverance of the saints,,,,

Simple - because the whole purpose and intent of the Bible was to demonstrate that Christ alone is Saviour along with all that goes with Him as the Saviour. The rest of it is documentary and informational to that end. So, the Bible is solely about, and built upon, Christ. The question that then needs to be answered is: what is a Saviour, and what did/does He as Saviour do to bring about that end? When you can accurately answer that, you'll understand the doctrine. Everything else in the Bible is from that. My hint is Heb 10:7 and Jhn 6:39 - they are the foundations and guardrails
that should keep everyone's biblical understanding on a correct path. Should anyone reach a conclusion or interpretation that isn't fully supportive of those, then they have wandered from the path and will not find truth.

[Heb 10:7 KJV]
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

[Jhn 6:39 KJV]
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
 
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Adam and Eve had free will and even though they continued to believe in God, they were still excluded from Gods presence because of their disobedience. The scriptures you have posted are about genuinely saved Christians who are warned about the consequences of falling away. So do not go saying they were never saved, because you need to be saved before you can fall away, and the consequences are worse, than if they had never ever believed.
.
There are Scriptures in the Bible that make it appear that saved people can fall away. However, there is an abundance of Scripture that support "eternal salvation" not a conditional salvation. After all, we do not save ourselves. Remember, Paul asked the Galatians 3:3 "Can you start in the Spirit and finish in the flesh?" No, this is impossible. And remember, he is speaking to Christians.

That is why 2 Timothy 2:15 said to Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. You cannot glance at Scripture or merely read it. You must study it. You also must compare the New and Old Testaments because knowing the Old helps you understand the New better. When Jesus addresses the people who called Him Lord, Lord in Matthew 7:21, I think it is telling when He says to them "I NEVER knew you."

Also, Romans 8:9 says But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Therefore, you can't even try to live saved if you do not belong to Christ. You cannot live for Christ without Him. How can you say "I tried to live for Christ but He left me." If you don't have His Spirit, you are none of His.

Romans 8:9 is a hard scripture to escape. It is in your face. This means that if you think you can lose your salvation, you also think that the Holy Spirit can be in you and then leave you. But Jesus promised that he would be with us forever. That He would never leave us. John 14:16-17 KJV says
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you (speaking of the Day of Pentecost).

How can Jesus be in you and you are striving to live for Him, and then one day, he decides to dump you? For what? Why did He save you in the first place? Because you were good? No! Because you were special? No! It was not for anything we have done. Not for any works that we did, but because of His great love for us and He wooed us to Himself (John 6:44 says
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.) We cannot boast that we saved ourselves, nor that we keep ourselves. We are both saved and kept by God. 1 Peter 1:5 says Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Ephesians 2:8 says For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

God does not give His Spirit to the world John 14:16-17. He is saying that if you have God's Spirit, you both see and know God. Remember, God told those in Matthew 7:21 "I NEVER knew you."

If you think that God, after He gives us His Spirit can take it back, that sounds like a false doctrine. The Bible says in 2 Corinthians 1:22 ESV and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Also Ephesians 1:13-14 ESV says In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,[b] to the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30 says
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

God makes great and precious promises to us. 2 Peter 1:4 says by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

God is not a liar. He cannot lie. Numbers 23:19 says God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? He cannot make us a promise and not keep it. We hang our lives on these promises and stand on them. That is what Abraham did. He believed that God would keep His promise to Him. Romans 4:2-5 says

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

This is an abundance of support for "eternal salvation." We are both saved and kept only by God, not ourselves. Paul was continually, in his letters to the church, reminding them of who they were, urging them not to sin because they had been purged of sin. Sin was dead to them.

We are not Christians because of what we do but because of who we are. We must remember that and lean on God to fulfil His will in our lives and help us live godly. If a human being thinks he is a cat and meows, he does not become a cat. He is a human being acting like a cat. The Bible says that we are new creations in Christ Jesus. When we believe, we pass over. We must keep our hearts and heads in His Word so that we understand who we are now so that we do not sin against Him. A Christian who sins does not understand what has happened to Him. We must cling to Jesus and His word so that He will transform us.



























 
There are Scriptures in the Bible that make it appear that saved people can fall away. However, there is an abundance of Scripture that support "eternal salvation" not a conditional salvation. After all, we do not save ourselves. Remember, Paul asked the Galatians 3:3 "Can you start in the Spirit and finish in the flesh?" No, this is impossible. And remember, he is speaking to Christians.

That is why 2 Timothy 2:15 said to Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. You cannot glance at Scripture or merely read it. You must study it. You also must compare the New and Old Testaments because knowing the Old helps you understand the New better. When Jesus addresses the people who called Him Lord, Lord in Matthew 7:21, I think it is telling when He says to them "I NEVER knew you."

Also, Romans 8:9 says But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Therefore, you can't even try to live saved if you do not belong to Christ. You cannot live for Christ without Him. How can you say "I tried to live for Christ but He left me." If you don't have His Spirit, you are none of His.

Romans 8:9 is a hard scripture to escape. It is in your face. This means that if you think you can lose your salvation, you also think that the Holy Spirit can be in you and then leave you. But Jesus promised that he would be with us forever. That He would never leave us. John 14:16-17 KJV says
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you (speaking of the Day of Pentecost).

How can Jesus be in you and you are striving to live for Him, and then one day, he decides to dump you? For what? Why did He save you in the first place? Because you were good? No! Because you were special? No! It was not for anything we have done. Not for any works that we did, but because of His great love for us and He wooed us to Himself (John 6:44 says
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.) We cannot boast that we saved ourselves, nor that we keep ourselves. We are both saved and kept by God. 1 Peter 1:5 says Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Ephesians 2:8 says For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

God does not give His Spirit to the world John 14:16-17. He is saying that if you have God's Spirit, you both see and know God. Remember, God told those in Matthew 7:21 "I NEVER knew you."​

If you think that God, after He gives us His Spirit can take it back, that sounds like a false doctrine. The Bible says in 2 Corinthians 1:22 ESV and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.​

Also Ephesians 1:13-14 ESV says In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,[b] to the praise of his glory.​

Ephesians 4:30 says​

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.​

God makes great and precious promises to us. 2 Peter 1:4 says by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.​

God is not a liar. He cannot lie. Numbers 23:19 says God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? He cannot make us a promise and not keep it. We hang our lives on these promises and stand on them. That is what Abraham did. He believed that God would keep His promise to Him. Romans 4:2-5 says​

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.​

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.​

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.​

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.​

This is an abundance of support for "eternal salvation." We are both saved and kept only by God, not ourselves. Paul was continually, in his letters to the church, reminding them of who they were, urging them not to sin because they had been purged of sin. Sin was dead to them.​

We are not Christians because of what we do but because of who we are. We must remember that and lean on God to fulfil His will in our lives and help us live godly. If a human being thinks he is a cat and meows, he does not become a cat. He is a human being acting like a cat. The Bible says that we are new creations in Christ Jesus. When we believe, we pass over. We must keep our hearts and heads in His Word so that we understand who we are now so that we do not sin against Him. A Christian who sins does not understand what has happened to Him. We must cling to Jesus and His word so that He will transform us.​

A very good and nice post. I admit I haven't read every word, but it seems sound.

Calvanism is a little different in as much as they believe they are God's elect, are always saved and cannot backslide. I am feeling very tired and my eyes are slowly closing at 2pm in the afternoon, so I am going to bed. Might speak to you again later, I am sorry this is such a short response, but I don't feel there is much to add.
 
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Wanted to add one more thing:

Salvation is IMPOSSIBLE! IMPOSSIBLE! IMPOSSIBLE!

Only with God is salvation possible. Because of what Christ has done.

Matthew 19:26 With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Human beings cannot do it. So, if you ARE saved, you didn’t do it.

If GOD saved me, and HE is the only one who CAN, then why would He un-save me?

What would be the point of saving me in the first place? Will I keep myself once I am saved being that I didn't save myself in the first place? Can I fall out of favor with Him? What does it mean to be saved? Doesn't saved mean that Jesus has ALREADY saved me from my sins? Doesn't it mean that I am a new creation. 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Can I un-new myself? Can I change what God has done. The God that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth (Revelation 3:7)

I am both saved initially and kept by God's power all the way until I get to glory. 1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

God both draws me to Himself and raises me up. John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I can go on and on and on about this, really. I struggled in my own life with this truth for the longest until I started studying God's word as we are told in the Scripture to do. There is false doctrine out there. Paul was passionate against false doctrine because it causes people to sin. The Bible is actually a closed book unless you have God's Spirit. Have you ever listened to a documentary about Jesus and the Bible by unbelievers? They do not understand. It is sickening just to listen to them. They get soooo much wrong. Jesus is no different than us in these documentaries. They have Mary having sex to have Jesus. Jesus sleeping with this woman or that. Jesus is a disciple of John, the Baptist and gets inspiration to become a leader from him. O boy!

Our salvation is PHOENOMENAL! A COMPLETE MIRACLE! No man can do it but God! That is why we praise Him and rejoice in Him!

I really hope that this helps someone out there who struggled like I did.
 
Wanted to add one more thing:

Salvation is IMPOSSIBLE! IMPOSSIBLE! IMPOSSIBLE!

Only with God is salvation possible. Because of what Christ has done.

Matthew 19:26 With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Human beings cannot do it. So, if you ARE saved, you didn’t do it.

If GOD saved me, and HE is the only one who CAN, then why would He un-save me?

What would be the point of saving me in the first place? Will I keep myself once I am saved being that I didn't save myself in the first place? Can I fall out of favor with Him? What does it mean to be saved? Doesn't saved mean that Jesus has ALREADY saved me from my sins? Doesn't it mean that I am a new creation. 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Can I un-new myself? Can I change what God has done. The God that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth (Revelation 3:7)

I am both saved initially and kept by God's power all the way until I get to glory. 1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

God both draws me to Himself and raises me up. John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I can go on and on and on about this, really. I struggled in my own life with this truth for the longest until I started studying God's word as we are told in the Scripture to do. There is false doctrine out there. Paul was passionate against false doctrine because it causes people to sin. The Bible is actually a closed book unless you have God's Spirit. Have you ever listened to a documentary about Jesus and the Bible by unbelievers? They do not understand. It is sickening just to listen to them. They get soooo much wrong. Jesus is no different than us in these documentaries. They have Mary having sex to have Jesus. Jesus sleeping with this woman or that. Jesus is a disciple of John, the Baptist and gets inspiration to become a leader from him. O boy!

Our salvation is PHOENOMENAL! A COMPLETE MIRACLE! No man can do it but God! That is why we praise Him and rejoice in Him!

I really hope that this helps someone out there who struggled like I did.
Outstanding!
 
Wanted to add one more thing:

Salvation is IMPOSSIBLE! IMPOSSIBLE! IMPOSSIBLE!

Only with God is salvation possible. Because of what Christ has done.

Matthew 19:26 With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Human beings cannot do it. So, if you ARE saved, you didn’t do it.

If GOD saved me, and HE is the only one who CAN, then why would He un-save me?

What would be the point of saving me in the first place? Will I keep myself once I am saved being that I didn't save myself in the first place? Can I fall out of favor with Him? What does it mean to be saved? Doesn't saved mean that Jesus has ALREADY saved me from my sins? Doesn't it mean that I am a new creation. 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Can I un-new myself? Can I change what God has done. The God that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth (Revelation 3:7)

I am both saved initially and kept by God's power all the way until I get to glory. 1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

God both draws me to Himself and raises me up. John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I can go on and on and on about this, really. I struggled in my own life with this truth for the longest until I started studying God's word as we are told in the Scripture to do. There is false doctrine out there. Paul was passionate against false doctrine because it causes people to sin. The Bible is actually a closed book unless you have God's Spirit. Have you ever listened to a documentary about Jesus and the Bible by unbelievers? They do not understand. It is sickening just to listen to them. They get soooo much wrong. Jesus is no different than us in these documentaries. They have Mary having sex to have Jesus. Jesus sleeping with this woman or that. Jesus is a disciple of John, the Baptist and gets inspiration to become a leader from him. O boy!

Our salvation is PHOENOMENAL! A COMPLETE MIRACLE! No man can do it but God! That is why we praise Him and rejoice in Him!

I really hope that this helps someone out there who struggled like I did.
It might help someone that's thinking of sinning or living a sinful life because they think they walked down an isle at one point in their life and are now saved forever.

You didn't like the verses that state we could become unsaved.
Do you have free will? (to become saved).
Did you lose that free will when you became saved? (to become unsaved).
You overlooked those verses.

But it's nice to have you onboard and it's nice that you seem like a loving person.
Just don't abandon Jesus or God or your salvation.

BTW, Jesus doesn't just decide to let you go one day...
it's YOU that has to decide to let HIM go.

Colossians 1:21-23
21And although you were previously alienated and hostile in attitude, engaged in evil deeds,
22yet He has now reconciled you in His body of flesh through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you have heard,
 
Thinking about God what He thinks about how we talk about salvation OSAS or you can lose your salvation. Not sure why but what comes to mind is a witches invitation.. a song based on a real story. As the "witch" was in his face saying what can your God do. The man of God had nothing asking God please say something and God said "Don't put to me to some stupid test".

"Calvinism"... pffft another *ism. With in that there are many things we all agree on. What drew me to God (something said here) was duh God He did it I remember but that was as far as He could go. I still had to make the choice. Gets silly since the word makes it clear OT and NT He wanted His word to reach the world. Both times Israel missed it yet it is done.

Now can one lose your salvation.. forgive me here this is childish. By that I mean its like talking about algebra to 1st graders. Its been quoted here about the one that knows God, the powers of the age to come blah blah blah. They would have to be like Paul or John, Peter and then choose to walk away. If they walked away there is nothing to bring them back. Like Satan and his angels. Its why there is no salvation for them. Ever think about that? They knew God in all His glory and power and wanted out. Lets take a kinda different look here..just a thought don't get silly here lol.. Well there was no place found for him in heaven so God in His mercy made a place for him. Gave him what he wanted. A place without God. Its written hell was made for the devil and his angels. It was never made for man. I heard one say the angels see it as Gods mercy. None the less there is nothing that would bring them back. So to simple fallaway is not just some choice you made because life was to hard or you lost your wife your kids your job and you say "wheres GOD?" I quit! <---still saved.

One of the 1st things I or we should tell someone saved (born from above) is the enemy is going to come in right away and try to steal everything. Tell you how your not saved blah blah blah. Here we many saved (born from above) for so many years walked with Him yet are no offense still listening to that lie. I can't be the only one that notices that "OSAS" verse or you can lose your salvation verse is never posted. A bunch of verses are quoted that are said to prove both points, sides. IF you get the right people can be fun to debate
 
Thinking about God what He thinks about how we talk about salvation OSAS or you can lose your salvation. Not sure why but what comes to mind is a witches invitation.. a song based on a real story. As the "witch" was in his face saying what can your God do. The man of God had nothing asking God please say something and God said "Don't put to me to some stupid test".

"Calvinism"... pffft another *ism. With in that there are many things we all agree on. What drew me to God (something said here) was duh God He did it I remember but that was as far as He could go. I still had to make the choice. Gets silly since the word makes it clear OT and NT He wanted His word to reach the world. Both times Israel missed it yet it is done.

Now can one lose your salvation.. forgive me here this is childish. By that I mean its like talking about algebra to 1st graders. Its been quoted here about the one that knows God, the powers of the age to come blah blah blah. They would have to be like Paul or John, Peter and then choose to walk away. If they walked away there is nothing to bring them back. Like Satan and his angels. Its why there is no salvation for them. Ever think about that? They knew God in all His glory and power and wanted out. Lets take a kinda different look here..just a thought don't get silly here lol.. Well there was no place found for him in heaven so God in His mercy made a place for him. Gave him what he wanted. A place without God. Its written hell was made for the devil and his angels. It was never made for man. I heard one say the angels see it as Gods mercy. None the less there is nothing that would bring them back. So to simple fallaway is not just some choice you made because life was to hard or you lost your wife your kids your job and you say "wheres GOD?" I quit! <---still saved.

One of the 1st things I or we should tell someone saved (born from above) is the enemy is going to come in right away and try to steal everything. Tell you how your not saved blah blah blah. Here we many saved (born from above) for so many years walked with Him yet are no offense still listening to that lie. I can't be the only one that notices that "OSAS" verse or you can lose your salvation verse is never posted. A bunch of verses are quoted that are said to prove both points, sides. IF you get the right people can be fun to debate
Hi Blade,
2 observations:

First, who said a person cannot be brought back?
Certainly not me. God is always waiting with open arms.
Didn't Jesus go searching for the one lost lamb?
He had 99 others, so why?
Because God loves us and will always want us.

Second, you brought up the example of someone that loses their spouse, kids or job.
Maybe a person gets discouraged.
Maybe a person questions if God is there, or if He really loves us.
I wouldn't put that in the same category as walking away from God...abandoning Him.
That would be losing our faith in Him.
What is it that saves? Faith.
So can we still be saved without faith?

You want to do the verse game?
Verses that seem to state that security is unconditionally secure can easily be explained...
Those that seem to state that security is conditional on our faith, cannot be explained away.
Check some out.
 
What I find interesting is that John Calvin taught good works.
In fact, continuing in good works is the ONLY way a calvinist can now he is saved since everything depends on God, and only good works are an indication of salvation.

For we dream neither of a faith devoid of good works nor of a justification that stands without them. This alone is of importance: having admitted that faith and good works must cleave together,

What then do good works do in our salvation? In the first instance they remind us of God’s mercy and grace toward us in Christ (3.14.18). In the second case they are “fruits” of his efficacious call (3.14.19). We “take the fruits of regeneration (ex regenerationis fructibus) as proof of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit….” (ibid). Our good works, to the degree they are good, are not ours. They are the Spirit’s. Thus, we do not present them to God as anything but evidence of his grace toward us, which is what the Old Testament believers did when they appealed to their works.

sourece: https://heidelblog.net/2015/10/through-good-works-2/



I do not intend from the above that Calvin believed good works SAVE...
but that they are an indication of salvation, and in that sense are a necessary component of the saved person.

With which I agree, BTW.
The difference is that I may not be doing any good works...
and yet, I can trust God to save me as long as I dwell with Him.
And I can know I'm doing this because I myself cling to Him, and I am conscious of this.
I know this was written a long time ago, but for those who may be reading it today. I don't think you can be a Christian and not do good works. If you only see good works as what you do in ministry, you are greatly limiting what Paul meant. Consider these Scriptures: Romans 12:1, I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. We are Christians every single day. We are to live for Christ even in the smallest things we do, like thinking and talking. Consider another Scripture: Colossians 3:17 And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. There is really no such thing as a Christian not living for God in some way, even if parts of your life are not yet transformed.
 
I know this was written a long time ago, but for those who may be reading it today. I don't think you can be a Christian and not do good works. If you only see good works as what you do in ministry, you are greatly limiting what Paul meant. Consider these Scriptures: Romans 12:1, I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. We are Christians every single day. We are to live for Christ even in the smallest things we do, like thinking and talking. Consider another Scripture: Colossians 3:17 And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. There is really no such thing as a Christian not living for God in some way, even if parts of your life are not yet transformed.
Helping others is a natural result of being a Christian, but even atheists help others.
 
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