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I think you're smarter than this, and should at least try to muster an actual response. Are we debating this issue or are we not?
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[__ Science __ ] Can Creationists Accept Evolution?
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I think you're smarter than this, and should at least try to muster an actual response. Are we debating this issue or are we not?
Barbarian
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I just accept the way He did it.
Accepting it His way sounds like a smart thing to do, to me.
I'm not sure what else you want. I get that some people might not accept that God uses nature to get things done, but we have His word on it. For example the Earth brought forth living things. He uses natural means to make us, and so on.
I'm just observing what is.
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Dorothy Mae
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Actually, the law of thermodynamics states that things degenerate and become less complex over time. It takes energy to keep a system functioning over time. If a person does not want to form an opinion on the claims of evolution versus the claims of the Bible, this is understandable as it is the work of many many weeks to understand both sufficiently to make an educated choice. But the fact is, they are mutually exclusive. One cannot believe all life forms came from the same single cell and God created life as we know it to be, fully functional. They cannot be put together. There are matters in life that are either or. When coming to a T crossroads, one must choose right or left. There is no choosing both.
PrimFinallyFoundGod!
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Okay respectfully I'll agree to disagree
Dorothy Mae
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Ok, but you really disagreeing with the law of thermodynamics. It is also obvious in real life. Leave a complex object to itself and it will not improve with time but will break down.
PrimFinallyFoundGod!
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Whether it gets more complex or more simple isn't really the key focus. It's whether God is separate from Science (meaning one has to be fictional) or the cause of it. I believe he is the cause. I don't wish to debate you, I respectfully disagree with your views and I don't wish to argue. As I said earlier, the most important thing is living a life honouring the bible, believing in God and repenting/preventing a sinful life. As this applies to you, I have absolutely no problem with your stance on evolution as it simply isn't that important.
God bless.
Dorothy Mae
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In the debate between evolution and genesis, becoming more complex or degenerating is everything as evolution insists life become more complex spontaneously.
Now God is separated from science same as an author is separate from the books he writes. Or an artist is separated from the art he creates. It is actually necessary as no artist can create art and be the the art at the same time.
But we do not have to debate. Evolution as destroyed the faith of many so I do not see it as unimportant. But if you do not want to get into it, that is fine. You are right, it is more important how we live, not what we understand.
Barbarian
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No. Actually there are several laws of thermodynamics. It's not clear which one you're thinking of here. Maybe this:
The second law of thermodynamics in other versions establishes the concept of entropy as a physical property of a thermodynamic system. It can be used to predict whether processes are forbidden despite obeying the requirement of conservation of energy as expressed in the first law of thermodynamics and provides necessary criteria for spontaneous processes. The second law may be formulated by the observation that the entropy of isolated systems left to spontaneous evolution cannot decrease, as they always arrive at a state of thermodynamic equilibrium where the entropy is highest at the given internal energy.
Second law of thermodynamics - Wikipedia
Do you think a seed is a complex object? I would love it if your idea applied to the weed seeds that fall into my garden.
No. That's absolutely incorrect. In many cases, such as our skeletons, things became less complex. We see lots of examples of decreased complexity in evolution. It can go the other way, too. Evolution is not about increasing complexity. So long as the Sun inputs energy into the world, life will go on. It is the most elegant way creation has of facilitating flow of energy. Anyone who is interested in how that flow has determined the structure of our world might want to read this very easy-to-understand book by an engineer who specializes in that process:
Design in Nature: How the Constructal Law Governs Evolution in Biology, Physics, Technology, and Social Organizations: Bejan, Adrian, Zane, J. Peder: 9780307744340: Amazon.com: Books
Buy Design in Nature: How the Constructal Law Governs Evolution in Biology, Physics, Technology, and Social Organizations on Amazon.com ✓ FREE SHIPPING on qualified orders
www.amazon.com
It explains why trees, river basins, and good airport design (among many other things) are as they are. Well worth the time to read. And very little math.
Creationism is a great atheist-maker. I've seen many young people go through crises of faith when they learn that YE creationism cannot be true. The solution is not to lie to them, but to point out that YE creationism is not and never has been an essential Christian doctrine. The testimony of one such person:
But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.
“From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true?”
That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said ‘No!’ A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, “Wait a minute. There has to be one!” But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now, but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.
And being through with creationism, I very nearly became through with Christianity. I was on the very verge of becoming an atheist.
Glenn Morton
Why I Left Young-Earth Creationism
In memory of Glenn Morton (1950-2020), Peaceful Science is republishing his personal account and testimony of leaving Young-Earth Creationism.
peacefulscience.org
Morton made it through that crisis and continued to be a Christian. Many others did not.
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Barbarian
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Today's winner.
citrus
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You should check out to reasons.org. a Christian astrophysicist, hugh ross. Sometimes you can message him on Facebook. I'm sure he gets a lot of mail. Maybe Google him. He is good talking about all kinds of topics cientifically. That helped me a lot. I don't believe in evolution. I also am a old earh believer, but that has nothing to do with salvation. You should look into it. I think he has videos on you tube. Very smart man and he admits when he doesn't know something, which is not often, but it shows he is genuin.
citrus
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There are many scientists that are Christians, more than people think.
We know that bacteria and other microscopic organisms change over time. We can prove that scientifically. It is observable. Where it gets tricky is when you can't observe the change but rely on the "it happened over millions of years" argument. That's where the evolutionists lose me.
Dorothy Mae
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Bacteria don’t become a different genus or species. They’ve tried coaxing e. coli to evolve and it refuses.
This sort of thing used to happen to me when I was in school. Science sucks.
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Happens. Most give you time, but this is one of the few forums at this site where people have no time to edit posts (due to it being an unmoderated forum), so you gotta be careful. Once you let it go, you're never getting it back, Lol.
Outside power vs inner natural power.
God vs magic arts.
God’s direction vs Satan’s direction.
Imitation vs reality.
Understanding vs deception.
Receiving a lie vs truth.
Right on the edge of what a redneck can will and do of God’s good pleasure.
Science so called vs creation.
eddif
God vs magic arts.
God’s direction vs Satan’s direction.
Imitation vs reality.
Understanding vs deception.
Receiving a lie vs truth.
Right on the edge of what a redneck can will and do of God’s good pleasure.
Science so called vs creation.
eddif
Dorothy Mae
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Well I think real science is fascinating. Evolution is a faith for many.
Highway54
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Both creation and evolution show us having a starting point. Creation teaches we were created by kinds, whereas evolution teaches all creatures originated from a cell spontaneously coming to life, and mutating into species eventually. The flaw is that all who came from that cell would be of the same kind, therefore able to reproduce, however this is not the case. Souls can only reproduce according to their kind, in fact organic plant life is the same way, if I am not mistaken.
