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Can Eternal Life exist in the Second Death?

FreeGrace

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This is a philosophical, not theological, question. The Bible speaks of both eternal life (Rom 6:23), and the second death (Rev 2:11, 20:6, 14, 21:8) which is also called the Lake of Fire (Rev 9:20, 20:10, 14, 15). The LoF is also described as the "eternal fire" (Matt 18:8, 25:41, Jude 7).

Therefore, if one answers no, please explain why not. If one answers yes, please explain why it can or does.

Thanks.
 
This is a philosophical, not theological, question. The Bible speaks of both eternal life (Rom 6:23), and the second death (Rev 2:11, 20:6, 14, 21:8) which is also called the Lake of Fire (Rev 9:20, 20:10, 14, 15). The LoF is also described as the "eternal fire" (Matt 18:8, 25:41, Jude 7).

Therefore, if one answers no, please explain why not. If one answers yes, please explain why it can or does.

Thanks.
No, Eternal life is HIS life and we get it the moment we believe in Christ alone for our salvation. No unbeliever will have eternal life......It is Christs life that is eternal and only believers have that.

The second resurrection is for unbelievers and they are still spiritually dead. They are resurrected to life forever in the LoF.
 
This is a philosophical, not theological, question. The Bible speaks of both eternal life (Rom 6:23), and the second death (Rev 2:11, 20:6, 14, 21:8) which is also called the Lake of Fire (Rev 9:20, 20:10, 14, 15). The LoF is also described as the "eternal fire" (Matt 18:8, 25:41, Jude 7).

Therefore, if one answers no, please explain why not. If one answers yes, please explain why it can or does.

Thanks.

Nope............There cannot be eternal life,and death at the same time
 
The second death is when the unbeliever is thrown into the lake of fire/hell.They will have eternal life in that place of eternal torment.The flame will never go out.It will be forever and ever that they will be conscious of where they are and suffer.
Matthew 25:41
Daniel 12:2
2 Thessalonians 1:9
Revelation 14:10-11
Revelation 20:10

The second death is not death such as you no longer exist it is the separation from God and your soul exists in hell forever.
 
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This is a philosophical, not theological, question. The Bible speaks of both eternal life (Rom 6:23), and the second death (Rev 2:11, 20:6, 14, 21:8) which is also called the Lake of Fire (Rev 9:20, 20:10, 14, 15). The LoF is also described as the "eternal fire" (Matt 18:8, 25:41, Jude 7).

Therefore, if one answers no, please explain why not. If one answers yes, please explain why it can or does.

Thanks.

First you should probably define life and death.
 
I am not into philosophical stuff.I am not into mindless going on and on about mind stuff.I am just answering the OP simply.
 
The second death is when the unbeliever is thrown into the lake of fire/hell.They will have eternal life in that place of eternal torment.The flame will never go out.It will be forever and ever that they will be conscious of where they are and suffer.
Matthew 25:41
Daniel 12:2
2 Thessalonians 1:9
Revelation 14:10-11
Revelation 20:10

The second death is not death such as you no longer exist it is the separation from God and your soul exists in hell forever.
I disagree that existence in the LoF is having "eternal life". They certainly will exist forever in that place, but the basic meaning of "death" is 'separation'. Physically, that means the soul being separated from the body (James 2:26). Spiritually, that means the person being separated from God. So, those in the LoF don't have "life", because they will be eternally separated from God. Which is why the Bible describes it as the "second death".
 
This is a philosophical, not theological, question. The Bible speaks of both eternal life (Rom 6:23), and the second death (Rev 2:11, 20:6, 14, 21:8) which is also called the Lake of Fire (Rev 9:20, 20:10, 14, 15). The LoF is also described as the "eternal fire" (Matt 18:8, 25:41, Jude 7).

Therefore, if one answers no, please explain why not. If one answers yes, please explain why it can or does.

Thanks.

The answer to the question is NO and Rev 20:15 (ESV) confirms it, 'If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire'.

Eternal life cannot exist in the second death, which is the lake of fire. It is synonymous with the final destiny of the damned - Gehenna.
 
I am not into philosophical stuff.I am not into mindless going on and on about mind stuff.I am just answering the OP simply.


:amen
 
The answer to the question is NO and Rev 20:15 (ESV) confirms it, 'If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire'.

Eternal life cannot exist in the second death, which is the lake of fire. It is synonymous with the final destiny of the damned - Gehenna.

Eternal existence does exist in the lake of fire.

If any Christian receives the mark of the beast, they shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb, and the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints...


9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-12



JLB
 
Eternal existence does exist in the lake of fire.
Which has nothing to do with the OP. The issue is clear: can eternal LIFE (not existence) exist in the LoF, also called the second DEATH.

The answer is absolutely NO. It cannot. Yes, there will be people in the LoF, and they will exist forever. But if one reads the OP carefully, they will understand the meaning of "death", which is separation from God. They will be separated from God for eternity.

God IS eternal life (1 Jn 5:20). Those who possess eternal life from God will live with God for eternity. Those who never possessed eternal life will be separated from God for eternity. That is called the "second death" by Scripture.

The point of the OP is that eternal LIFE cannot DIE.

If one disagrees, one must show from Scripture that such life (eternal) can or does die.

If any Christian receives the mark of the beast, they shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb, and the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints...
Does the verse (you failed to cite your evidence) speak of Christians/believers, or just anyone who receives the mark fo the beast?

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-12
JLB
As I suspected, the phrase "if anyone" doesn't clearly or specifically identify believers. There is no reason to assume that believers will be so deceived. It's far more reasonable to conclude that those believers who have been following the beast before he forces all to take his mark will have died the sin unto death among all who will die during the judgments.

And, your logic concludes that eternal LIFE will die the second death. God's life CANNOT die. And He gives that LIFE to all who believe in His Son. And He has clearly warned of the consequences of disobedience of His children. And, nothing about His children being thrown into the fire.

I guess it is logical to conclude that what the Philistines did (fires of Molech) to their children (for 1 reason) God the Father does, for another reason. Wowsers.

Scripture is quite clear; God DETESTED child sacrifice. But your view has God doing exactly (and for eternity) what the heathens did for their own children in the fires of Molech.

And please don't compare what Jesus Christ, the Son of God, did on the cross as sacrifice for the sins of humanity. He wasn't regenerated, as human beings are. He eternally existed, and became flesh and dwelt among us. Cannot compare His sacrifice with the fires of Molech, or the second death.

Those who end up in the LoF never had eternal life. If they had, they could NOT end up there. Unless you can prove beyond any doubt that ETERNAL life can die.
 
Which has nothing to do with the OP. The issue is clear: can eternal LIFE (not existence) exist in the LoF, also called the second DEATH.

The answer is absolutely NO. It cannot. Yes, there will be people in the LoF, and they will exist forever. But if one reads the OP carefully, they will understand the meaning of "death", which is separation from God. They will be separated from God for eternity.

God IS eternal life (1 Jn 5:20). Those who possess eternal life from God will live with God for eternity. Those who never possessed eternal life will be separated from God for eternity. That is called the "second death" by Scripture.

The point of the OP is that eternal LIFE cannot DIE.

If one disagrees, one must show from Scripture that such life (eternal) can or does die.


Does the verse (you failed to cite your evidence) speak of Christians/believers, or just anyone who receives the mark fo the beast?


As I suspected, the phrase "if anyone" doesn't clearly or specifically identify believers. There is no reason to assume that believers will be so deceived. It's far more reasonable to conclude that those believers who have been following the beast before he forces all to take his mark will have died the sin unto death among all who will die during the judgments.

And, your logic concludes that eternal LIFE will die the second death. God's life CANNOT die. And He gives that LIFE to all who believe in His Son. And He has clearly warned of the consequences of disobedience of His children. And, nothing about His children being thrown into the fire.

I guess it is logical to conclude that what the Philistines did (fires of Molech) to their children (for 1 reason) God the Father does, for another reason. Wowsers.

Scripture is quite clear; God DETESTED child sacrifice. But your view has God doing exactly (and for eternity) what the heathens did for their own children in the fires of Molech.

And please don't compare what Jesus Christ, the Son of God, did on the cross as sacrifice for the sins of humanity. He wasn't regenerated, as human beings are. He eternally existed, and became flesh and dwelt among us. Cannot compare His sacrifice with the fires of Molech, or the second death.

Those who end up in the LoF never had eternal life. If they had, they could NOT end up there. Unless you can prove beyond any doubt that ETERNAL life can die.

What exists in the lake of fire?

Can a life continue to exist in torment forever? Yes.


And please don't compare what Jesus Christ, the Son of God, did on the cross as sacrifice for the sins of humanity. He wasn't regenerated, as human beings are. He eternally existed, and became flesh and dwelt among us. Cannot compare His sacrifice with the fires of Molech, or the second death.

Who lives in a person who believes for awhile...? Isn't it Christ.


Here is the patience of the saints;


If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-12


Who are these verses written to? Saints or Unbelievers?


JLB
 
Most know there is eternal life with Christ to those who have accepted Him as their personal Lord and Savior as described in John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9,10, but not to many know that there is also eternal life in that of the lake of fire that will be eternal torment.

God gives us a description of eternal life (second death) in torment, suffering, punishment or as Matthew 8:12 describes it as outer darkness. The New Testament description is a bottomless pit (abyss) (Revelation 20:3), a lake (Revelation 20:14), darkness (Matthew 25:30), death (Revelation 2:11), destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9), everlasting torment (Revelation 20:10), a place of wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30), and a place of gradated punishment (Matthew 11:20-24; Luke 12:47-48; Revelation 20:12-13), everlasting fire Matthew 25:41, everlasting punishment, Matthew 25:46, lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 
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The mentality of our world.
 
What exists in the lake of fire?
The "second death" is what exists in the LoF. Not eternal LIFE.

Can a life continue to exist in torment forever? Yes.
Yet, the Bible never describes existence in the LoF any any other terms than DEATH.

You have not yet explained HOW eternal LIFE can exist in the second DEATH, though you believe that it can.

Who lives in a person who believes for awhile...? Isn't it Christ.
Jesus PROMISED the Holy Spirit, who would be with us FOREVER. Jn 14:16. Once indwelt, always indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Not true for OT saints. The Holy Spirit was not given to all of them, or even most of them. Only certain ones. Unlike NT saints.

Here is the patience of the saints;


If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-12
Who are these verses written to? Saints or Unbelievers?JLB
The book of Revelation was written to believers, and covers all that will happen in the future time of the Tribulation. You still haven't proven your view that God will send His regenerated children to the LoF, which is your view.
 
Then, limited by the vagueness of the OP, the answer is yes.
OK, you didn't read the OP carefully. So, here is the definitions. Eternal life is God's life, as He is eternal. He gives this life to those who believe in Christ. The second death is the LoF, where those who never believed never obtained God's life, which is eternal life.

Now, with these definitions, care to re-think your answer?
 
Most know there is eternal life with Christ to those who have accepted Him as their personal Lord and Savior as described in John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9,10, but not to many know that there is also eternal life in that of the lake of fire that will be eternal torment.

God gives us a description of eternal life (second death) in torment, suffering, punishment or as Matthew 8:12 describes it as outer darkness.
That's not "eternal life". It is an eternal existence, but the Bible never describes the LoF as "life".
 
The "second death" is what exists in the LoF. Not eternal LIFE.


Yet, the Bible never describes existence in the LoF any any other terms than DEATH.

You have not yet explained HOW eternal LIFE can exist in the second DEATH, though you believe that it can.


Jesus PROMISED the Holy Spirit, who would be with us FOREVER. Jn 14:16. Once indwelt, always indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Not true for OT saints. The Holy Spirit was not given to all of them, or even most of them. Only certain ones. Unlike NT saints.


The book of Revelation was written to believers, and covers all that will happen in the future time of the Tribulation. You still haven't proven your view that God will send His regenerated children to the LoF, which is your view.


This warning is to born again believers who have eternal life dwelling within them.


If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-12

If born again Christians choose to take the mark of the beast, then they will be cast into the lake of fire which is the second death.


JLB
 
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