Can True Christians Be Used By Demons?

[Dorothy Mae]

That's the traditional way of interpreting the verse, but it doesn't fit the context of the passage well. He starts the Chapter by saying "Let there not be many teachers," and then goes into how destructive arguing over doctrine can become within a congregation, which continues all the way through the early parts of Chapter 4. The context suggests he is talking about a body of believers, not an individual person's body.

But the tongue defines the body speaking it. Others can rebuke it and whats more hearing words that dirty isn’t anywhere close to saying them. We are not vulnerable to being defiled by hearing what we cannot be responsible for. Ah, but we are completely responsible for what we say. That’s what defiles us…what comes OUT OF US, at least that’s what Jesus said. He even said that it’s not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out of the heart.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hidden In Him, if disagreement is the main problem, then you’ll have to include Jesus among those who raised disagreements. He disagreed with the religious experts often.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Let me put it another way. James also stated:

10 Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. 11 Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening? 12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Thus no spring yields both salt water and fresh.
Springs do not yield salt water unless salt is in them. A tree would not yield olives unless the olive had become part of its inner DNA through some form of modification. So to what extent can demonic spirits "inhabit" the believer is the question I am asking.

This begs the question as to why he tells us that. It cannot be that it’s a done deal. But what if he’s warning us to examine what comes out of us. If we claim to have the Holy Spirit but spew out horrible accusations against the character of believers, maybe we should examine what is in us.

 

[Hopeful]

There is no such thing as remaining a true Christian. You’re either following Christ and living with Him as Lord of your life (complete submission to Him/complete self-abasement), or you’re not. Those who are in Christ & have made Him Lord of their life never have to worry about demonic possession. Demons are permitted to “attack” believers, so to say, but the attacks of Satan will never and could never overtake a true believer.

Yeah, words like "true Christian" and "true believer" are redundancies.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, having simple disagreements is only natural. But it is the spirit we walk in, so to speak, (i.e. harbor, as when manipulated by demons of resentment, bitterness etc) that corrupts things.

My question is, to what extent was James implying when he stated, "The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body"?

James' whole point of chapter 3 was that Christians can't and won't do the bad things listed therein.
Only one kind of berry can come from one bush and only one kind of water can come from one spring.
Only one kind of behavior can come from a man in Christ.

 

[Hidden In Him]

James' whole point of chapter 3 was that Christians can't and won't do the bad things listed therein.
Only one kind of berry can come from one bush and only one kind of water can come from one spring.
Only one kind of behavior can come from a man in Christ.

If this is the case, then why does he say, "These things ought not be so," with the implication being that they are, even though they shouldn't be?

"Out of the same mouth proceed blessings and cursings" is James making a statement of fact, one which contradicts your above position.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Yeah, words like "true Christian" and "true believer" are redundancies.

I use the term to distinguish between a Christian and those who call themselves Christians but are not.

 

[Annagrace]

I use the term to distinguish between a Christian and those who call themselves Christians but are not.

That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I use the term to distinguish between a Christian and those who call themselves Christians but are not.

How do you practically tell the difference?

 

[Hopeful]

If this is the case, then why does he say, "These things ought not be so," with the implication being that they are, even though they shouldn't be?

Yeah, things are askew: and it better stop !

"Out of the same mouth proceed blessings and cursings" is James making a statement of fact, one which contradicts your above position.

No contradiction, but more of the "one tree one fruit" imagery.

 

[Hopeful]

I use the term to distinguish between a Christian and those who call themselves Christians but are not.

Understood, but usually it is redundant.

 

[Highway54]

Then Peter was not a true Christian? Give me your interpretations of the scriptures I posted in Post #4, Post #8, Post #10, and Post #12.

4. Of course Peter was not satan, but Jesus corrected him because in his human error, just like you and I we would not want him to have to suffer what was to come for him, but Jesus knew that was a reality he must do to keep his integrity. Out of kindness Peter ignorantly gave information that if Jesus' accepted could have led to working against God's purposes.

8. A warning about how hurtful the tongue can be. Christians are warned constantly about gossip Hidden. And point blank that is a big problem in the Christian congregation. You are not trying to indicate that Christians are not sinners are you?

10. No relevance

12. Again no relevance to the point, perhaps you can tell me how you see these last two show that Christians are used by satan sir.

 

[Highway54]

There is no such thing as remaining a true Christian. You’re either following Christ and living with Him as Lord of your life (complete submission to Him/complete self-abasement), or you’re not. Those who are in Christ & have made Him Lord of their life never have to worry about demonic possession. Demons are permitted to “attack” believers, so to say, but the attacks of Satan will never and could never overtake a true believer.

I agree with the exception of the first sentence. Even those "in Christ" can fall away, and if they do, there is no redemption for them Heb 6:4-6. I will say however, the percentage would be quite low.

 

[Highway54]

Where did God promise to protect us from Demons? Ephesians 6 implies we must protect ourselves.

The burden of responsibility definitely falls upon us for sure. But we alone are infinitely less powerful than the demons maam. Without Divine protection, we would be powerless.
(Exodus 23:20) “I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared.
(Hebrews 1:7) Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.”
(Hebrews 1:14) Are they not all spirits for holy service, sent out to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?

God will make the way out for us not to seriously sin, but like you said, we have to choose it:
(1 Corinthians 10:12, 13) . . .So let the one who thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall. 13 No temptation has come upon you except what is common to men. But God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear, but along with the temptation he will also make the way out so that you may be able to endure it.

 

[Rookie]

Be used through possesion, I doubt it, be used through oppression, oh yes...

 

[Annagrace]

I agree with the exception of the first sentence. Even those "in Christ" can fall away, and if they do, there is no redemption for them Heb 6:4-6. I will say however, the percentage would be quite low.

“They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be evident that they all are not of us.”
1 John 2:19

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The burden of responsibility definitely falls upon us for sure. But we alone are infinitely less powerful than the demons maam. Without Divine protection, we would be powerless.
(Exodus 23:20) “I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared.

That was NOT a universal promise given to all. And He didn’t protect Israel their whole existence in any case. Satan rose up against them and won a battle.

(Hebrews 1:7) Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.”
(Hebrews 1:14) Are they not all spirits for holy service, sent out to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?

No protection mentioned.

God will make the way out for us not to seriously sin, but like you said, we have to choose it:
(1 Corinthians 10:12, 13) . . .So let the one who thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall. 13 No temptation has come upon you except what is common to men. But God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear, but along with the temptation he will also make the way out so that you may be able to endure it.

That’s true and as you said we have to choose it. Otherwise there’s no automatic protection from the Enemy.

 

[Hidden In Him]

4. Of course Peter was not satan, but Jesus corrected him because in his human error, just like you and I we would not want him to have to suffer what was to come for him, but Jesus knew that was a reality he must do to keep his integrity. Out of kindness Peter ignorantly gave information that if Jesus' accepted could have led to working against God's purposes.

Even your New World Translation has Jesus address Him as Satan, which means Jesus wasn't addressing Peter at all but Satan speaking through him.

8. A warning about how hurtful the tongue can be. Christians are warned constantly about gossip Hidden. And point blank that is a big problem in the Christian congregation. You are not trying to indicate that Christians are not sinners are you?

"15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic."

This means James was stating in no uncertain terms that the "wisdom" coming from those who curse their fellow believers is not coming from "above," i.e. from God and from the Holy Spirit, but from below, i.e. from demonic (δαιμονιώδης) sources. The text is clearly talking about the presence of demonic influence.

12. Again no relevance to the point, perhaps you can tell me how you see these last two show that Christians are used by satan sir.

Yes, those last two have more to do with Hopeful's argument, so my mistake for referencing them.

 

[Highway54]

“They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be evident that they all are not of us.”
1 John 2:19

Great supporting Scripture maam! Thanks for bringing that out.

 

[Highway54]

That was NOT a universal promise given to all. And He didn’t protect Israel their whole existence in any case. Satan rose up against them and won a battle.

No protection mentioned.

That’s true and as you said we have to choose it. Otherwise there’s no automatic protection from the Enemy.

I have given you my opinion Dorothy, and you have given me yours. I believe that none of us can stand against satan without Divine protection maam. The historical evidence that you even commented on shows God's protection to His people, as long as they were faithful. When they drew away from Him, He chose to draw away from them, that is the ups and downs of us historically. As long as we are faithful, He will shepherd us, but if we choose to not take the way out He provides, we have chosen to stand against Him, so we lose that protection.

Many cases given to us in the Bible to show our up and down history Dorothy, and the why.