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Can True Christians Be Used By Demons?

Even your New World Translation has Jesus address Him as Satan, which means Jesus wasn't addressing Peter at all but Satan speaking through him.


"15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic."

This means James was stating in no uncertain terms that the "wisdom" coming from those who curse their fellow believers is not coming from "above," i.e. from God and from the Holy Spirit, but from below, i.e. from demonic (δαιμονιώδης) sources. The text is clearly talking about the presence of demonic influence.


Yes, those last two have more to do with Hopeful's argument, so my mistake for referencing them.
Even your New World Translation has Jesus address Him as Satan, which means Jesus wasn't addressing Peter at all but Satan speaking through him.
Our thoughts on it Hidden:
With those words, Jesus made a distinction between thoughts that originate with God and thoughts that originate with this world under Satan’s control. (1 John 5:19) Peter echoed the self-sparing attitude of the world. But Jesus knew that his Father’s thinking was different. He knew that God wanted him to brace himself for the suffering and death that awaited him. In his reply to Peter, Jesus clearly rejected the world’s thinking in favor of Jehovah’s.

You might be right, but I do not believe satan was using Peter or speaking through him I think it was just our imperfection that was speaking.
"15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic."

This means James was stating in no uncertain terms that the "wisdom" coming from those who curse their fellow believers is not coming from "above," i.e. from God and from the Holy Spirit, but from below, i.e. from demonic (δαιμονιώδης) sources. The text is clearly talking about the presence of demonic influence.
That is exactly correct, the demons have been cast to the earth, and Christians are far from perfect, but I say it is the imperfection of us, not demonic agenda through us.
 
Our thoughts on it Hidden:

Highway 54, with all due respect, I don't care what the Jehovahs Witness position is. You guys teach mountains upon mountains upon mountains of heresy and false doctrine.

I don't dislike you as a person, but I have zero interest in hearing what the JW position is on anything, let alone this. I would discuss why I think "your thoughts" are highly inconsistent with your translation, but in all honesty I have to tell you I don't care.
 
I have given you my opinion Dorothy, and you have given me yours. I believe that none of us can stand against satan without Divine protection maam.
There is no such promise.
The historical evidence that you even commented on shows God's protection to His people, as long as they were faithful.
So it depends upon their faithfulness, not God protecting them, right?
When they drew away from Him, He chose to draw away from them, that is the ups and downs of us historically. As long as we are faithful, He will shepherd us, but if we choose to not take the way out He provides, we have chosen to stand against Him, so we lose that protection.
Where is that promise from Jesus?
Many cases given to us in the Bible to show our up and down history Dorothy, and the why.
Sometimes Satan wins.
 
There is no such promise.

So it depends upon their faithfulness, not God protecting them, right?

Where is that promise from Jesus?

Sometimes Satan wins.
“Sometimes Satan wins” ????

HA!

Any power Satan has is given/permitted him from God. He cannot do anything God does not allow/permit him to do. Nothing anyone does, be it flesh and blood, principality, power of darkness, visible and invisible, happens outside of the domain of Almighty God - the ONE Alpha and Omega, Beginning and End, The only ONE with the power to create and destroy anything and everything He wishes to with a snap of a finger.

Who is it you worship, Dorothy Mae? Almighty God or Satan?
 
“Sometimes Satan wins” ????

HA!
It is true. One just needs to read the Old Testament. The New Testament says WE need to resist him. It stands to reason that if we do not, he can win. God does not resist the Enemy for us, which was the point. One believer thinks God does it all. He thinks the Devil is stronger than we are. He is actually not. He just is a lot sneakier and lies. But he no longer has any authority we do not give him.
Any power Satan has is given/permitted him from God. He cannot do anything God does not allow/permit him to do.
Actually we now give him power, not God. There is no scripture that says God gave Satan power. He did get authority in this world and why, because Adam and Eve bowed to his wishes and lost their authority. When we do the will of the Enemy, he gains authority. How do you think people get demonized? People give him authority.
Nothing anyone does, be it flesh and blood, principality, power of darkness, visible and invisible, happens outside of the domain of Almighty God - the ONE Alpha and Omega, Beginning and End, The only ONE with the power to create and destroy anything and everything He wishes to with a snap of a finger.
Or yes there are lots and lots of things that happen outside the will of Almighty God. Since God is everywhere, "domain" is sort of a useless description. But when Jesus told us to pray "your will be done" it stands to reason that is it is not automatically done.
Who is it you worship, Dorothy Mae? Almighty God or Satan?
What kind of insulting question is that? Or shall I turn tables and ask you incredulously if you cannot tell the difference? I can tell the difference although in some people it takes some considerable evidence but when it is consistent, there is no denying who is the object of a man's worship. I am surprised you cannot tell.
 
Highway 54, with all due respect, I don't care what the Jehovahs Witness position is. You guys teach mountains upon mountains upon mountains of heresy and false doctrine.

I don't dislike you as a person, but I have zero interest in hearing what the JW position is on anything, let alone this. I would discuss why I think "your thoughts" are highly inconsistent with your translation, but in all honesty I have to tell you I don't care.
I have been posting here for a while sir, perhaps you might give an example of what you disagree with, and I will be glad to produce the Scriptural evidence for my statement. I realize most people do not care, but sometimes something clicks with them. We can discern that since we are still here that more people will become Christians sir, so there will be more that will come to know God and His son, and become disciples themselves. Mat 24:14
 
It is true. One just needs to read the Old Testament. The New Testament says WE need to resist him. It stands to reason that if we do not, he can win. God does not resist the Enemy for us, which was the point. One believer thinks God does it all. He thinks the Devil is stronger than we are. He is actually not. He just is a lot sneakier and lies. But he no longer has any authority we do not give him.

Actually we now give him power, not God. There is no scripture that says God gave Satan power. He did get authority in this world and why, because Adam and Eve bowed to his wishes and lost their authority. When we do the will of the Enemy, he gains authority. How do you think people get demonized? People give him authority.

Or yes there are lots and lots of things that happen outside the will of Almighty God. Since God is everywhere, "domain" is sort of a useless description. But when Jesus told us to pray "your will be done" it stands to reason that is it is not automatically done.

What kind of insulting question is that? Or shall I turn tables and ask you incredulously if you cannot tell the difference? I can tell the difference although in some people it takes some considerable evidence but when it is consistent, there is no denying who is the object of a man's worship. I am surprised you cannot tell.

“We know that those who are born of God do not sin, but the one who was born of God protects them, and the evil one does not touch them (1 John 5:18).”
 
“We know that those who are born of God do not sin, but the one who was born of God protects them, and the evil one does not touch them (1 John 5:18).”
18We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 1

God is not protecting us. We must keep ourselves according to this scripture and all of them.
 
Yes. The Greek in James 3:15 is οὐκ ἔστιν αὕτη ἡ σοφία ἄνωθεν κατερχομένη, ἀλλὰ ἐπίγειος, ψυχική, δαιμονιώδης, which translated literally is "earthly, soulish, demonic." When combined with his statement that the tongue is "being set on fire by Hell" (φλογιζομένη ὑπὸ τῆς γεέννης) it is very obvious what he was implying here. The tongue of Christians can be manipulated by demons to speak curses and slanders over their brethren rather than blessings (James 3:10).

Well, James actually spells out what he meant in James 3:15 in the verses just preceding, and after, it:

James 3:14-16
14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth.
15 This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic.
16 For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing.


"Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks," Jesus said (Luke 6:45), and this is what James confirmed in the passage above. Jealousy and selfish ambition - attitudes of the heart - give rise to arrogance, lying, disorder and every evil thing. Yikes! When a person uses their tongue to speak "deadly poison," cursing others, they reveal the content of their heart, influenced by the demonic as James said, that will produce "disorder and every evil thing."

The highlighted phase is speaking of a body of believers becoming spiritually defiled by constant infighting, which is what he will be discussing when he gets to Chapter 4. But the question then becomes, in what way specifically would demons defile the body of a congregation, and to what extent?

I have my own position, but since you are more discerning, I assume you will know I am not talking about full on demonic possession.

Blessings in Christ, and thanks for the response.

In what way would the demonic "defile the body of a congregation"? I think James gives us a hint: "earthly, sensual (soulish), demonic."

A congregation under the influence of the demonic grows occupied with earthly things.

Philippians 3:18-19
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)


What is it to "mind earthly things"? Paul offered a helpful contrast:

Philippians 3:20 (NASB)
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

Colossians 3:1-4 (NASB)
1 Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
2 Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.


A congregation that is set upon earthly things is not occupied with eternity and the glory that is to come, investing in the present in things that are eternal and heavenly, but is busy seeking "your best life now" and all the material but temporary comforts and things those "whose god is their belly" seek after.

I prefer the rendering of psuchikos in James 3:15 as "sensual" or "natural," especially in light of those Jude described as sensual/natural who are as follows:

Jude 1:4 (NASB)
4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:8 (NASB)
8 Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties.

Jude 1:12-13 (NASB)
12 These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;
13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.

Jude 1:16 (NASB)
16 These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.

Jude 1:18-19 (NASB)
18 that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts."
19 These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.


A congregation of people who have the demonic among them will be characterized by the sorts of things James and Jude described: licentiousness, selfish feasting (their belly is their god), shamelessness about the shameful (Romans 1:28-32), and the pursuit of ungodly lusts (among other things). Jude also indicated that grumbling, advantage-seeking flattery, mockery, divisiveness, rebellion toward authority, filthy dreaming, and sensuality would mark such a congregation, too. All of these things express carnality, a preoccupation with the flesh and its impulses, a desire for stimulation of the physical senses. In extreme cases, this looks like "toking the Spirit," or "Spirit-soaking," or "worship raves," or being "slain in the Spirit"; it looks like worship that purposefully excites the emotions, mistaking high feelings for spirituality; it looks like adulterous/fornicating, or homosexual, pastors; it looks like useless wrangling, and church factions at war with each other, and slanderous gossip; it looks like worldly, seeker-sensitive churches, and split churches, and closed churches.

Many years ago, I attended a downtown church in my city that was a perfect example of a church in which the demonic had got a foothold. The service started with a young, busty, peroxide-blonde woman in a skin-tight, red, tube-dress, in matching stilettos strutting out onto the stage singing a Sass Jordan song! As a young, single guy at the time, my thoughts were not on God as she bounced around, belting out her totally godless tune, every curve and crevice of her form on vivid display. This was followed by a guy reading the lyrics of a song by the pop singer, Sting, that had nothing whatever to do with the Lord. And so it went, the pastor eventually preaching a sermon that was weak as water spiritually. Ugh. I never went back.

A congregation "defiled by the demonic" may also be outright demonic. For example, pagan meditation/visualization may be made a part of the "worship service"; or New Age ideas, like "The Law of Attraction," or spirit-travel, may be taught from the pulpit; or the congregation may be encouraged to see themselves as beings ascending to divinity, little demi-gods on their way to full equality with their Creator; or they may even be taught that God is the Evil One, keeping the best things from humanity, and the devil is the righteous Truth Teller (see Genesis 3:1-5).
 
A congregation of people who have the demonic among them... looks like useless wrangling, and church factions at war with each other, and slanderous gossip; it looks like worldly, seeker-sensitive churches, and split churches, and closed churches.

Wow, long post, but with some excellent things in it.

For me, James particular focus was in your above words, though. The tongue being set on fire by Gehenna over doctrinal strife, and refusing to be "quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to wrath," (James 1:19).

God bless, and thanks for the post.
- H
 
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