Can you remit sins , John 20:19-23 ????

[unknown2me]

Interesting question. I had always understood it to mean that anyone we led to Christ on earth, would be recognized as saved in Heaven. We remit sins by bringing sinners to Christ.

I've got to hand it to you, Brother. I've never heard of anyone else ever bringing that up.

This is not the answer to his question.

 

[unknown2me]

Jhn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit:

Jhn 20:23 whose soever sins ye forgive, they are forgiven unto them; whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.

We have to learn to trust the Word and not try to interpret it. Jesus is speaking to disciples (followers) here. So He is speaking to all who follow Him, as He told them "Go and make disciples of all people..."

This scripture clearly says: If you forgive somebody , they are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven by God as well. That is why its important for Christians to walk in forgiveness.

Sometimes, the body of Christ can use this authority to lock somebody out of the Kingdom is a person is in fellowship with them and living in willing unrepented sin.

It links with this verse, which is also about ALL disciples and not just Peter alone: Mat 16:19 I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Christ IN US, is the One with the authority. Its Jesus IN US, that forgives that person his or her sins.Its Christ IN YOU that has the keys of the kingdom and its Christ in you that bound and loose.

This not the answer to his question.

 

[unknown2me]

I went through e-sword, looking up the verse in Vincent's Word Studies and Strong's Concordance, as well as some translations and commentaries. Most commentaries agree that we remit someone's sins by bringing that person to Christ.

The Greek word "remit" is translated "forgive" in "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors." The Greek word has the idea of sending away or going away yourself. When we remit someone's sins, we send the sins and the person away from each other.

I was surprised by my friend Cornelius's statement that if we refuse to forgive someone who has wronged us, there is a problem with God forgiving him. Sure enough, the Greek word does have the idea of a servant forgiving a debt to the master, and the master had authorized the servant to forgive that debt. I had never heard this before, but IF YOU REFUSE TO FORGIVE YOUR ENEMY, IT CAUSES A PROBLEM BETWEEN GOD AND YOUR ENEMY.

This is not the answer to his question.

 

[unknown2me]

i would say this is why at the crucifixion of Jesus and at the stoning of Stephen, they both prayed, "Father, lay not this sin to their charge."

i think that if we are to reign with Christ for 1,000 years while Satan is locked up, then we should start learning how to judge people now, shouldnt we?


1 Corinthians 6:1-3

"1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know you not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?"


i agree with that quote that says, "Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate. It is that we are powerful beyond measure." i think God has called us up to such a high place in Christ that many people are afraid of the implications of that. we do it with humility and love, yes. but it is a place of great power all the same.

This is not the answer to his question.

 

[glorydaz]

This is not the answer to his question.

NO....there's the answer to his question.
Only God can remit sin.

 

[chestertonrules]

This is not the answer to his question.

NO....there's the answer to his question.
Only God can remit sin.

Can God grant men the authority to act in his stead?

 

[glorydaz]

This is not the answer to his question.

NO....there's the answer to his question.
Only God can remit sin.

Can God grant men the authority to act in his stead?

I would say yes. God can do whatever He likes.
We're His mouthpiece here on earth....

Of course, men are not doing the forgiving because they didn't hang on the cross.

 

[chestertonrules]

This power was given to the apostles and their successors, ie. priest of the Church.

 

[glorydaz]

This power was given to the apostles and their successors, ie. priest of the Church.

True...and yet the old system of priests has been done away with.
We no longer need a mediator between God and man...Jesus is our high priest.

We are a priesthood of believers...each individual believer has direct access to the throne of God.

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

 

[francisdesales]

True...and yet the old system of priests has been done away with.
We no longer need a mediator between God and man...Jesus is our high priest.

We are a priesthood of believers...each individual believer has direct access to the throne of God.

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

The Levitical priesthood has been done away with - a priesthood dependent upon birth. Now, anyone God calls can potentially be a priest. Priesthood in of itself is not done away with, since priests continue to be given to the Church and they participate in Christ's High Priestood. While He stands at the heavenly altar, men of the NT priesthood offer Christ to the Father on earthly altars, in union with the Holy Spirit and Jesus Himself (being present in the Eucharist).

And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Rev 5:8-10

As you can see, priests continue, priesthood is not done away with. We all participate in the priesthood of Christ and their continues to be a ministrial priesthood, but are nolonger Levitical. Moses also called the Jews a kingdom of priests, as well, but there was also a ministrial priesthood, so Peter's citation does not destroy this order.

Regards

 

[chestertonrules]

This power was given to the apostles and their successors, ie. priest of the Church.

True...and yet the old system of priests has been done away with.
We no longer need a mediator between God and man...Jesus is our high priest.

We are a priesthood of believers...each individual believer has direct access to the throne of God.

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

God gave special authority to the apostles and their successors. You are right that we can go to God with a contrite confession and be forgiven, but the successors of the apostles have an additional authority to forgive the sins of others by the power of Christ in them.

John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

 

[Vince]

In addition of being a kingdom of priests, we ARE the successors of the Apostles.

 

[francisdesales]

In addition of being a kingdom of priests, we ARE the successors of the Apostles.

Scriptures, please? When I read Scriptures, I see a noted disparity and assumed authority given to the Apostles vis a vis the "ordinary" follower of Christ.

 

[glorydaz]

God gave special authority to the apostles and their successors. You are right that we can go to God with a contrite confession and be forgiven, but the successors of the apostles have an additional authority to forgive the sins of others by the power of Christ in them.

John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

God's plan for Israel was to make a kingdom of priests...they failed to walk in God's commands. His plan is fulfilled in us. The Apostles were first, but they, in turn, sent us out. We need no mediator except Christ, our high priest. We we come boldly before the throne of grace and offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus. We have the power of Christ in us.

6And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

 

[glorydaz]

The Apostles were directly chosen by Christ, but the Apostles sent out all believers to preach the good news. We have the same access to God that the Apostles had which makes us priests...sanctified, and sent. We can baptize, perform intercessory prayer, offer ourselves as living sacrifices, and come boldly before the throne.

Luke 10:1After these things the LORD appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

Luke 10:16
He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

 

[Vince]

My friend Glorydaz makes a valid point. I stated that WE (genuine born-again Christians who follow the teachings of the Apostles as revealed in God's Word) are the successors of the Apostles. But where does the Bible teach this?

In the Great Commission, the last verse of the Gospel of Matthew has Jesus telling the Apostles "... teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

We are to obey all the commandments, teach all the doctrines, and follow all the practices that Jesus taught the Apostles. People who blend in other traditions with the teachings of the Apostles are not their successors.

 

[chestertonrules]

God's plan for Israel was to make a kingdom of priests...they failed to walk in God's commands. His plan is fulfilled in us. The Apostles were first, but they, in turn, sent us out. We need no mediator except Christ, our high priest. We we come boldly before the throne of grace and offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus. We have the power of Christ in us. ]

The apostles did not send us out, the appointed successors to lead the Church. Unless you have been ordained by a successor of an apostle you are to follow their message, not create your own message.

Jesus clearly distinguishes between the leaders and followers here:

John 17

Jesus prays for the leaders of the Church:

15My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.


Jesus Prays for All Believers(you and me)


20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.

 

[chestertonrules]

My friend Glorydaz makes a valid point. I stated that WE (genuine born-again Christians who follow the teachings of the Apostles as revealed in God's Word) are the successors of the Apostles. But where does the Bible teach this?

In the Great Commission, the last verse of the Gospel of Matthew has Jesus telling the Apostles "... teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

We are to obey all the commandments, teach all the doctrines, and follow all the practices that Jesus taught the Apostles. People who blend in other traditions with the teachings of the Apostles are not their successors.

Only those ordained as the successors to the apostles are successors. Unless you have hand laid on you by a successor of the apostles, then you are to be a follower, not a leader.

We each have a role to play in the body of Christ, but we don't all have the same role.

 

[glorydaz]

My friend Glorydaz makes a valid point. I stated that WE (genuine born-again Christians who follow the teachings of the Apostles as revealed in God's Word) are the successors of the Apostles. But where does the Bible teach this?

In the Great Commission, the last verse of the Gospel of Matthew has Jesus telling the Apostles "... teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

We are to obey all the commandments, teach all the doctrines, and follow all the practices that Jesus taught the Apostles. People who blend in other traditions with the teachings of the Apostles are not their successors.

Only those ordained as the successors to the apostles are successors. Unless you have hand laid on you by a successor of the apostles, then you are to be a follower, not a leader.

We each have a role to play in the body of Christ, but we don't all have the same role.

Elders are "ordained"....not as priests specifically, but as leaders in the church assembly. Individual believers (ordinary Christians) are priests that can come boldly before the throne. We have no need for any man to mediate between us and God. God calls all members of the body to certain gifts...not all are teachers or pastors or evangelists, but we are all members of the same body. Christ is our high priest. There are no apostles as the 12 were....now were given gifts by the Holy Spirit.

 

[chestertonrules]

[

Elders are "ordained"....not as priests specifically, but as leaders in the church assembly. Individual believers (ordinary Christians) are priests that can come boldly before the throne. We have no need for any man to mediate between us and God. God calls all members of the body to certain gifts...not all are teachers or pastors or evangelists, but we are all members of the same body. Christ is our high priest. There are no apostles as the 12 were....now were given gifts by the Holy Spirit.

The word elder in the new testament is interchangeable with priest.

Jesus clearly gave his apostles unique authority, then he sent them into the world as God sent him. They have the power to forgive sins in his name and to appoint successors, as he did.

Jesus started a Church and told us to listen to the Church.