Catholic Propaganda Calling Christians False Christians

[Solo]

Should I believe the Bible or should I believe Catholic Propaganda?
Check out the following Catholic belief from http://www.drbo.org/biblechristians.htm

Bible-Only Christians

By the publisher
"For this was I born, and for this came I into the world; that I should give testimony to the TRUTH. Every one that is of the TRUTH, heareth my voice." [John 18:37]

The Word Of God
"The Bible is the Word of God". It's a popular phrase, but what does it really mean? For many people it means that God is talking to them through the words in the Bible. For them, the Bible is their own personal message directly from God. They think they can learn what is necessary for their salvation from these words -- all by themselves, just them and their Bible.

They think that the Holy Spirit will enlighten them while they read and teach them about God and His people. They think they can have a personal relationship with Jesus -- all by themselves, just them and their Bible. They think that is all they need.

These people think that Jesus did not found a Church as an organization run by humans. They say, "We are all the church" and "The body of believers is the Body of Christ". These people are quite well know for quoting their favorite verses from the Bible, such as:

"For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God; Not of works, that no man may glory." [Ephesians 2:8-9]

They say, "It says right here, it's very clear, it means you are saved by your faith, it's nothing you do, not your works, and it's a free gift of God." They say, "All you need is your faith. Believe and you are saved."

If a verse agrees with their own beliefs they take it literally. It a verse does not agree with their own beliefs, they distort the meaing or say it is only symbolic. They rarely accept the following verse at its literal meaning:

"Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" [James 2:19-20]

False Christians
These are FALSE CHRISTIANS. Why? Because they rely on themselves only. Because they think they can correctly interpret the Bible for themselves. Because they distort the meaning of many verses to make them conform to their own beliefs. They make themselves the only authority on what is true and what is false. Or worse, many think the truth does not matter and read the Bible merely for emotional reasons.

They are FALSE CHRISTIANS, because they have the Word of God, but NOT the Meaning of God. They have their own meaning which may or may not be God's meaning. And when two "believers" arrive at a different meaning, who is to decide what is the true meaning? Whether they realize it or not, this is the dangerous practice called private interpretation. St. Peter warned people about this:

"Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation." [ 2 Peter 1:20]

"As also in all his epistles [of St Paul], speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction." [2 Peter 3:16]

If you are a Bible-Only Christian, you are a False Christian. You are a Christian without an authority, a Christian without a Church. A Christian without a Church is a False Christian. A Christian not in the true Church founded by Jesus Christ is also a False Christian.

This modern concept of Bible-Only Christianity has for its foundation the heretics of the 16th century, Martin Luther, John Calvin, and others, who rebelled against the Catholic Church, and created their own bible, different from the official Bible of the Catholic Church.

The Church Is The Authority
"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build MY CHURCH, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven." [Matthew 16:18-19]

The false Christians, have many commentaries on the above verses. They try very hard to prove that Christ did not establish the Catholic Church. But then where did the Church come from? It can trace all of its Popes back to St. Peter. Jesus had this to say about the authority of the Church when their was a disagreement among men:

"And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. And if he will not hear them: tell the CHURCH. And if he will not hear the CHURCH, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican." [Matthew 18:16-17]

St. Paul had this to say about the Church:

"But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the CHURCH of the living God, the PILLAR AND GROUND OF THE TRUTH." [1 Timothy 3:15]

Bible-Only Christians do not like to accept the authority of a Church. They want freedom to believe only what is acceptible to them. They think they know better than the Church. They also try very hard to prove that the Church is corrupt, not a divine institution, and not guided by the Holy Spirit. It seems like they hate the Catholic Church. Perhaps it is the same spirit of rebellion against God which started with Lucifer.

The Bread Of Life
The Catholic Church alone has been carrying on the wishes of Jesus, for almost 2,000 years with its practice of the "breaking of the bread."

And they were persevering in the doctrine of the apostles, and in the communication of the breaking of bread, and in prayers. And continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they took their meat with gladness and simplicity of heart; [Acts Of Apostles 2:42,46]

"But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice." [1 Corinthians 11:28]

If you are a believer, you will believe the following Bible verses.

"I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE." [John 6:48]

"I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world." [John 6:51-52]

"Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: EXCEPT YOU EAT THE FLESH OF THE SON OF MAN, AND DRINK HIS BLOOD, YOU SHALL NOT HAVE LIFE IN YOU. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him." [John 6:54-57]

"The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard, and who can hear it? After this many of his disciples went back; and walked no more with Him." [John 6:53,61,67]

"And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke: and gave to his disciples, and said: TAKE YE AND EAT. THIS IS MY BODY. And taking the chalice, he gave thanks, and gave to them, saying: DRINK YE ALL OF THIS. For THIS IS MY BLOOD of the new testament, which shall be shed for MANY unto remission of sins." [Matthew 26:26-28]

If you are sincere in your beliefs, you will join the Catholic Church. Where else can you get the real bread of life?

 

[Heidi]

Any teaching that contradicts the bible is a false teaching, period. And as Paul said in 2 Co. 11:4-15, any person who professes to be a Christian yet passes along a gospel other than what Paul preached is a false apostle of Christ. And that is how Paul and Jesus tells us how to recognize false apostles.

 

[Solo]

Any teaching that contradicts the bible is a false teaching, period. And as Paul said in 2 Co. 11:4-15, any person who professes to be a Christian yet passes along a gospel other than what Paul preached is a false apostle of Christ. And that is how Paul and Jesus tells us how to recognize false apostles.

Surely you don't mean that the Roman Catholic article claiming that one must belong to the Roman Catholic Church to be saved is a false teaching!
Why they are the only ones in town who can guarantee you your salvation. Just pay your pew rent, pay your weekly dues, speak the rhetoric, and you in like flint, regardless of your actual beliefs.

I have never heard a Roman Catholic teach salvation through the born again process. Have you? I will continue to base all of my beliefs on the Word of God, and leave the heretical teachings of the papacy to their own destruction.

 

[Heidi]

Any teaching that contradicts the bible is a false teaching, period. And as Paul said in 2 Co. 11:4-15, any person who professes to be a Christian yet passes along a gospel other than what Paul preached is a false apostle of Christ. And that is how Paul and Jesus tells us how to recognize false apostles.

Surely you don't mean that the Roman Catholic article claiming that one must belong to the Roman Catholic Church to be saved is a false teaching!
Why they are the only ones in town who can guarantee you your salvation. Just pay your pew rent, pay your weekly dues, speak the rhetoric, and you in like flint, regardless of your actual beliefs.

I have never heard a Roman Catholic teach salvation through the born again process. Have you? I will continue to base all of my beliefs on the Word of God, and leave the heretical teachings of the papacy to their own destruction.

I agree with you 100%!

 

[stray bullet]

Surely you don't mean that the Roman Catholic article claiming that one must belong to the Roman Catholic Church to be saved is a false teaching!

Not only is it a false teaching, but the Catholic Church does not teach it.

Why they are the only ones in town who can guarantee you your salvation. Just pay your pew rent, pay your weekly dues, speak the rhetoric, and you in like flint, regardless of your actual beliefs.

The Catholic Church doesn't teach that.

I have never heard a Roman Catholic teach salvation through the born again process. Have you? I will continue to base all of my beliefs on the Word of God, and leave the heretical teachings of the papacy to their own destruction.

One needs to be reborn to be saved. This begins at baptism.

 

[stray bullet]

Catholics and Protestants agree that to be saved, you have to be born again. Jesus said so: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

When a Catholic says that he has been "born again," he refers to the transformation that God’s grace accomplished in him during baptism. Evangelical Protestants typically mean something quite different when they talk about being "born again."

For an Evangelical, becoming "born again" often happens like this: He goes to a crusade or a revival where a minister delivers a sermon telling him of his need to be "born again."

"If you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and believe he died for your sins, you’ll be born again!" says the preacher. So the gentleman makes "a decision for Christ" and at the altar call goes forward to be led in "the sinner’s prayer" by the minister. Then the minister tells all who prayed the sinner’s prayer that they have been savedâ€â€"born again." But is the minister right? Not according to the Bible.
--Catholic.com

 

[Solo]

Catholics and Protestants agree that to be saved, you have to be born again. Jesus said so: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

When a Catholic says that he has been "born again," he refers to the transformation that God’s grace accomplished in him during baptism. Evangelical Protestants typically mean something quite different when they talk about being "born again."

For an Evangelical, becoming "born again" often happens like this: He goes to a crusade or a revival where a minister delivers a sermon telling him of his need to be "born again."

"If you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and believe he died for your sins, you’ll be born again!" says the preacher. So the gentleman makes "a decision for Christ" and at the altar call goes forward to be led in "the sinner’s prayer" by the minister. Then the minister tells all who prayed the sinner’s prayer that they have been savedâ€â€"born again." But is the minister right? Not according to the Bible.
--Catholic.com

So Catholics are born again as infants. An amazing thing isn't it. I don't find any examples in the Bible that suggest such a thing. It must be Catholic tradition or false doctrine. I suspect both. If your salvation is dependent upon your infant baptism, then you have a rude awakening ahead, pardner. I really didn't think that anyone could be so ignorant of spiritual things as that.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Catholics and Protestants agree that to be saved, you have to be born again. Jesus said so: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

When a Catholic says that he has been "born again," he refers to the transformation that God’s grace accomplished in him during baptism. Evangelical Protestants typically mean something quite different when they talk about being "born again."

For an Evangelical, becoming "born again" often happens like this: He goes to a crusade or a revival where a minister delivers a sermon telling him of his need to be "born again."

"If you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and believe he died for your sins, you’ll be born again!" says the preacher. So the gentleman makes "a decision for Christ" and at the altar call goes forward to be led in "the sinner’s prayer" by the minister. Then the minister tells all who prayed the sinner’s prayer that they have been savedâ€â€"born again." But is the minister right? Not according to the Bible.
--Catholic.com

So Catholics are born again as infants. An amazing thing isn't it. I don't find any examples in the Bible that suggest such a thing. It must be Catholic tradition or false doctrine. I suspect both. If your salvation is dependent upon your infant baptism, then you have a rude awakening ahead, pardner. I really didn't think that anyone could be so ignorant of spiritual things as that.

Why would someone need to be old enough to understand to be born from above (gennao anothen)? If this be so, then it is the will of man that intervenes- yet Jesus said clearly that this seed that we receive is not from the flesh or the will of man, but from above.

To be born is not the end, but rather, the beginning. When a person is born from above, whatever their age, they have an entire life to grow up into the mature man, the stature and fulness of Christ.

If your salvation is dependent upon a one-time committment, and you do not persevere, you sir are in for a rude awakening.

 

[Solo]

[quote="stray bullet":f83cf]Catholics and Protestants agree that to be saved, you have to be born again. Jesus said so: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

When a Catholic says that he has been "born again," he refers to the transformation that God’s grace accomplished in him during baptism. Evangelical Protestants typically mean something quite different when they talk about being "born again."

For an Evangelical, becoming "born again" often happens like this: He goes to a crusade or a revival where a minister delivers a sermon telling him of his need to be "born again."

"If you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and believe he died for your sins, you’ll be born again!" says the preacher. So the gentleman makes "a decision for Christ" and at the altar call goes forward to be led in "the sinner’s prayer" by the minister. Then the minister tells all who prayed the sinner’s prayer that they have been savedâ€â€"born again." But is the minister right? Not according to the Bible.
--Catholic.com

So Catholics are born again as infants. An amazing thing isn't it. I don't find any examples in the Bible that suggest such a thing. It must be Catholic tradition or false doctrine. I suspect both. If your salvation is dependent upon your infant baptism, then you have a rude awakening ahead, pardner. I really didn't think that anyone could be so ignorant of spiritual things as that.

Why would someone need to be old enough to understand to be born from above (gennao anothen)? If this be so, then it is the will of man that intervenes- yet Jesus said clearly that this seed that we receive is not from the flesh or the will of man, but from above.

To be born is not the end, but rather, the beginning. When a person is born from above, whatever their age, they have an entire life to grow up into the mature man, the stature and fulness of Christ.

If your salvation is dependent upon a one-time committment, and you do not persevere, you sir are in for a rude awakening.[/quote:f83cf]
When you are born of the Spirit dear one, you will know it. If you can not point to a time in your memory, then you are not born again. You have yet to reveal one instance in scripture where an example of the Church growing by infant baptism occurs. Many make a decision based on their believe in Jesus Christ as their savior, but no where is the saved by infant baptism portrayed.

Perseverence is very important in the sanctification of one's life after being justified by repenting and believing in Jesus Christ. How many infants are able to repent? None.

Your religious understanding is great, but your spiritual understanding of truth is lacking.

 

[Solo]

Here are some more goodies from the Roman Catholic vaults of horror. Are all Roman Catholics liars or are they just ignorant of what their infallible papacy promotes?

A Catechism Of The Bible By Rev. John O'Brien, M.A.
New York 1924 From http://www.drbo.org/catechism.htm#lesson14

Lesson 14:
Interpreting The Bible
1. Is the meaning of the Bible so clear that anyone reading it, can readily understand it?
The Bible is by no means so easily understood: St. Peter himself tells us that it contains many things: "... hard to be understood ..." (II Pet. III,16).

2. Whom do we have to interpret the Bible for us?
The Catholic Church interprets the Bible for us.

3. Is it natural that we should have a guide in interpreting the Bible?
Quite natural, just as in America, we have the Supreme Court to interpret the Constitution of the United States. The difference is that the Church is infallible and the Supreme Court is not!

4. So the Church cannot make mistakes in interpreting the Bible?
No, for she is under the guidance of the Holy Ghost.

5. How does that guidance manifest itself?
Through Tradition, the teachings of the Fathers, the Doctors of the Church, and of learned men.

6. Do Protestants acknowledge the interpretation of the Church or of any other authority?
No; Protestants hold that anyone who reads the Bible in the proper spirit will be guided by the Holy Ghost in interpretation.

7. Is this belief of Protestants a sensible one?
No; it is against the Bible, against Tradition, against reason.

8. How is it against reason?
Because the result of this belief has been that, as many interpretations exist as there are individual thinkers, and many of these interpretations contradict each other; since the Holy Ghost cannot contradict Himself, He cannot be the guide of these interpretations, and therefore, this belief of these Protestants is false.

9. How is it against Tradition?
The constant Tradition of the Church since Apostolic times is that the proper interpretation of the Word of God belongs to the Church founded by Him, i.e., the Catholic Church; and as St Paul tells us, we have to: "... stand fast: and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. ..." (II Thes. II, 14).

10. How is it against the Bible?
St. Peter warns us that in the Bible, there are: "... things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and the unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. ..." (II Pet. III,16). Now, if the Holy Ghost was inspiring personally, every individual reader of Scripture, what St Peter tells us would be impossible, because obviously, no one can read the Bible for their own destruction, and be inspired by the Holy Ghost at the same time. Since it is certain that St Peter was inspired by the Holy Ghost when he wrote that, it means that there is no personal inspiration from the Holy Ghost while reading the Bible; and that this Protestant belief cannot be true, since it contradicts the Bible.

11. Is the accusation that Catholics have no freedom of interpretation in biblical matters true?
In a material or literal sense, it is true, exactly as in any well-regulated society, nobody has the "freedom" to kill, maim, and loot. In a spiritual sense, it is quite the opposite, for St. John reminds us that: "... the truth shall make you free ..." (Jn. VIII, 32), and thanks to the vigilance of the Church, Catholics do enjoy freedom from error, which cannot be the case with the Protestants.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

[quote="stray bullet":128d9]Catholics and Protestants agree that to be saved, you have to be born again. Jesus said so: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

When a Catholic says that he has been "born again," he refers to the transformation that God’s grace accomplished in him during baptism. Evangelical Protestants typically mean something quite different when they talk about being "born again."

For an Evangelical, becoming "born again" often happens like this: He goes to a crusade or a revival where a minister delivers a sermon telling him of his need to be "born again."

"If you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and believe he died for your sins, you’ll be born again!" says the preacher. So the gentleman makes "a decision for Christ" and at the altar call goes forward to be led in "the sinner’s prayer" by the minister. Then the minister tells all who prayed the sinner’s prayer that they have been savedâ€â€"born again." But is the minister right? Not according to the Bible.
--Catholic.com

So Catholics are born again as infants. An amazing thing isn't it. I don't find any examples in the Bible that suggest such a thing. It must be Catholic tradition or false doctrine. I suspect both. If your salvation is dependent upon your infant baptism, then you have a rude awakening ahead, pardner. I really didn't think that anyone could be so ignorant of spiritual things as that.

Why would someone need to be old enough to understand to be born from above (gennao anothen)? If this be so, then it is the will of man that intervenes- yet Jesus said clearly that this seed that we receive is not from the flesh or the will of man, but from above.

To be born is not the end, but rather, the beginning. When a person is born from above, whatever their age, they have an entire life to grow up into the mature man, the stature and fulness of Christ.

If your salvation is dependent upon a one-time committment, and you do not persevere, you sir are in for a rude awakening.

When you are born of the Spirit dear one, you will know it. If you can not point to a time in your memory, then you are not born again. You have yet to reveal one instance in scripture where an example of the Church growing by infant baptism occurs. Many make a decision based on their believe in Jesus Christ as their savior, but no where is the saved by infant baptism portrayed.

Perseverence is very important in the sanctification of one's life after being justified by repenting and believing in Jesus Christ. How many infants are able to repent? None.

Your religious understanding is great, but your spiritual understanding of truth is lacking.[/quote:128d9]
Unfortunately, I do not have Infallibility working for me, as some do- so I will have to get by on the grace of God.
That being said, I would imagine it is quite fair to assume that people remember their encounters with the spitritual/numinous- especially ones they believe to be encounters with the Living God. I well remember my awakening- the repentance, and the fire that came subsequently into my life. I remember also seasons of refreshing, as Peter describes it.

These are all part of the salvation God has always been working in my life. Salvation is a dynamic constant, never truly a "was."

Regarding the presumed ineligibility of infants to receive the graces of God:

Samuel was brought to the Temple by his beautiful mother, and dedicated...but he received his calling afterward. Jeremiah was called while in his mother's womb. John the Baptist leapt in Elizabeth's blessed womb when he came near the Word in Mary's womb. Irrespective of your Anabaptist doctrine, the spirits of these children respond as they're led. "Their angels are constantly before God's Face."

Infants do not repent because they need not. One has nothing to repent of until one has strayed. One can only stray when one has first been found, then lost. Sadly, we all like sheep stray. Fortunately, we have infallible guides in this world, such as the holy scripture and your hearing from the Holy Spirit.

just/kidding
:

You take exception to the Catholic Church's claim to infallibility, yet claim it for yourself? Interesting, that.

Regards
James

 

[Solo]

The point where you get off track, ole soul, is where you have a confused understanding of salvation, and what it is that mankind is being saved from; also your indication of not knowing who is in need of salvation and at what point the need becomes imperative.

Any man can stand up, and so they have, and spit up words of doctrine which may or may not have any semblance of truth, such as infants are sinless until they stray. The Bible teaches that there is none that are good, and that all have gone astray.


And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Luke 18:19

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Romans 3:12

The little ones that believe in Jesus are special according to Jesus. Note that he speaks of those little ones that believe in him.



2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. Matthew 18:10-14

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 5:8-21

If you have ever humbled yourself before God, and repented of your sinfulness before him, accepting his propitiation for sin by believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, and because of his victory over death gave you the hope of the resurrection, and you are able to confess the same before men, then you have been saved; and are on a walk of life learning the right and wrong from the Word of God, being led of the Holy Spirit repenting and confessing sins as you are brought aware of them. Justification is your salvation, Sanctification is transforming by the renewing of your mind by the Word, and when Jesus returns, glorification in your new immortal, incorruptible body.

Being a member of a Church group whether fundamental, orthodox, Roman Catholic, Pentacostal, whatever will not get a person into the kingdom of heaven. Only by repentance, belief, and following Jesus will one be born again by the Spirit of God, making one a member of the body of Christ Jesus.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

The point where you get off track, ole soul, is where you have a confused understanding of salvation, and what it is that mankind is being saved from; also your indication of not knowing who is in need of salvation and at what point the need becomes imperative.

What a lovely bunch of cryptic nonsense. You have again wasted my time with your assurances that I am wrong, and not as spiritual as thou...yet you do not define what is, in your perception, 'correct.'

Any man can stand up, and so they have, and spit up words of doctrine which may or may not have any semblance of truth, such as infants are sinless until they stray. The Bible teaches that there is none that are good, and that all have gone astray.

Yes, I know, you are quoting from the same Psalm as I- perhaps that escaped your attention? "All have turned aside"- sound like an infant to you?

I don't 'spit doctrine,' cupcake: I speak it, write it, study it, learn it

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Luke 18:19

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Romans 3:12

The little ones that believe in Jesus are special according to Jesus. Note that he speaks of those little ones that believe in him.



2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. Matthew 18:10-14

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 5:8-21

If you have ever humbled yourself before God, and repented of your sinfulness before him, accepting his propitiation for sin by believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, and because of his victory over death gave you the hope of the resurrection, and you are able to confess the same before men, then you have been saved; and are on a walk of life learning the right and wrong from the Word of God, being led of the Holy Spirit repenting and confessing sins as you are brought aware of them. Justification is your salvation, Sanctification is transforming by the renewing of your mind by the Word, and when Jesus returns, glorification in your new immortal, incorruptible body.

Thanks for that walk-through of plain brown wrapper Evangelical doctrine. Were you complaining before that I spoke of elemental doctrine?

Again, your assurances aside, salvation is not God's bargain with you. Salvation is in a Person, salvation is a relationship, a true covenant in which He died and you get to also- daily. You Calvinists seem to forget the 'die daily' part.

Being a member of a Church group whether fundamental, orthodox, Roman Catholic, Pentacostal, whatever will not get a person into the kingdom of heaven. Only by repentance, belief, and following Jesus will one be born again by the Spirit of God, making one a member of the body of Christ Jesus.

Whatever modicum of truth there be in your last statement, be assured that same does not render participation in the Church irrelevant or superfluous. For the Body is much more than the invisible kinship shared between people of like minds. It is not a social contract; it IS communion, covenant, and ekklesia (gathering of the called)

 

[Solo]

The point where you get off track, ole soul, is where you have a confused understanding of salvation, and what it is that mankind is being saved from; also your indication of not knowing who is in need of salvation and at what point the need becomes imperative.

What a lovely bunch of cryptic nonsense. You have again wasted my time with your assurances that I am wrong, and not as spiritual as thou...yet you do not define what is, in your perception, 'correct.'

Any man can stand up, and so they have, and spit up words of doctrine which may or may not have any semblance of truth, such as infants are sinless until they stray. The Bible teaches that there is none that are good, and that all have gone astray.

Yes, I know, you are quoting from the same Psalm as I- perhaps that escaped your attention? "All have turned aside"- sound like an infant to you?

I don't 'spit doctrine,' cupcake: I speak it, write it, study it, learn it

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Luke 18:19

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Romans 3:12

The little ones that believe in Jesus are special according to Jesus. Note that he speaks of those little ones that believe in him.



2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. Matthew 18:10-14

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 5:8-21

If you have ever humbled yourself before God, and repented of your sinfulness before him, accepting his propitiation for sin by believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, and because of his victory over death gave you the hope of the resurrection, and you are able to confess the same before men, then you have been saved; and are on a walk of life learning the right and wrong from the Word of God, being led of the Holy Spirit repenting and confessing sins as you are brought aware of them. Justification is your salvation, Sanctification is transforming by the renewing of your mind by the Word, and when Jesus returns, glorification in your new immortal, incorruptible body.

Thanks for that walk-through of plain brown wrapper Evangelical doctrine. Were you complaining before that I spoke of elemental doctrine?

Again, your assurances aside, salvation is not God's bargain with you. Salvation is in a Person, salvation is a relationship, a true covenant in which He died and you get to also- daily. You Calvinists seem to forget the 'die daily' part.

Being a member of a Church group whether fundamental, orthodox, Roman Catholic, Pentacostal, whatever will not get a person into the kingdom of heaven. Only by repentance, belief, and following Jesus will one be born again by the Spirit of God, making one a member of the body of Christ Jesus.

Whatever modicum of truth there be in your last statement, be assured that same does not render participation in the Church irrelevant or superfluous. For the Body is much more than the invisible kinship shared between people of like minds. It is not a social contract; it IS communion, covenant, and ekklesia (gathering of the called)

And you bypass the truth again. What a shame. And I laid it out to you so plainly.

 

[Heidi]

Only those born again of the Spirit should take part in Communion. Communion alone will not get one saved. It is for those who are born again of the Holy Spirit to take part in the remembrance of what Christ did for us. Only being born again of the Spirit can save a person, not sacrifices & rituals like the Jews do. Rituals cannot save a person, only the faith that comes from the Holy Spirit. Hebrews 10: 1, "The law is only a shadow of good things that are coming-not the realities themselves. For this reason, it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship."

 

[Solo]

More Catholic lies to the Masses that they require submission from:

Protestants also transgress the Third Commandment of God, which says: "Remember thou keep holy the Sabbath day." By this commandment God commands all men to worship Him in the manner which He has prescribed. From the beginning of the world, God wished to be worshipped by the offering of sacrifices; but Protestants have done away with the worship of the Sacrifice of the Mass, which Christ commanded to be offered up by His priests and all Christians. They refuse to give God the honour of adoration; that is, to honour Him as the sovereign Lord of all creatures, and to acknowledge their entire dependence on Him, by offering the Sacrifice of the Body and Blood of His divine Son, Jesus Christ, in holy Mass. Instead of thus honouring and worshipping Him, they blaspheme Christ by calling this Holy Sacrifice a superstitious ceremony or abominable idolatry, whilst their own worship is a false worship, which is an abomination in the sight of God.




But there are other reasons still, why Protestants cannot be saved. Jesus Christ says: "Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, you shall not have life in you." (John 6: 54.) Now, Protestants do not receive the Body of Our Lord, because their ministers are not priests, and consequently have no power from Jesus Christ to say Mass, in which, by the words of consecration, bread and wine are changed into the Body and Blood of Christ. It follows, then, clearly that they will not enter into life everlasting, and deservedly so, because they abolished the holy Sacrifice of the Mass; and by abolishing that great Sacrifice they robbed God the Father of the infinite honour which Jesus Christ renders Him therein, and themselves of all the blessings which Jesus Christ bestows upon those who assist at this holy Sacrifice with faith and devotion: "Wherefore the sin of the young men (the sons of Heli) was exceeding great before the Lord, because they withdrew men from the sacrifice of the Lord." (1 Kings 2:17.) Now, God the Father cannot admit into Heaven these robbers of His infinite honour; because if those are damned who steal the temporal goods of their neighbour, how much more will those be damned who deprive God of His infinite honour, and their fellow-men of the infinite spiritual blessings of the Mass !


If the Church believed that men could be saved in any religion whatever, or without any at all, it would be uncharitable in her to announce to the world that out of her there is no salvation. But, as she knows and maintains that there is but one Faith, as there is but one God and Lord of all, and that she is in possession of that one Faith, and that without that Faith it is impossible to please God and be saved, it would be very uncharitable in her, and in all her children, to hide Christ's doctrine from the world.

We have seen that there is no salvation possible out of the Roman Catholic Church. It is therefore very impious for one to think and to say that "every religion is good." To say every religion is good, is as much as to say: The devil is as good as God. Hell is as good as Heaven. Falsehood is as good as truth. Sin is as good as virtue. It is impious to say, "I respect every religion." This is as much as to say: I respect the devil as much as God, vice as much as virtue, falsehood as much as truth, dishonesty as much as honesty, Hell as much as Heaven. It is impious to say, "It matters very little what a man believes, provided he be an honest man." Let such a one be asked whether or not he believes that his honesty and justice are as great as the honesty and justice of the Scribes and Pharisees. These were constant in prayer, they paid tithes according to the law, gave great alms, fasted twice in every week, and compassed sea and land to make a convert, and bring him to the knowledge of the true God. Now, what did Jesus Christ say of this justice of the Pharisees? "Unless," he says, "your justice shall exceed that of the Scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of Heaven." ( Matt. 6: 20. )

It is impossible for any one to have too fierce a hatred of every distortion of the Faith. Heresy destroys the souls for which Jesus died. It is in every way a foul and a loathsome thing. Outside the Roman Church there is nothing but heresy, or infidelity, or paganism in some of its countless forms. Every Christian sect is heretical, whether it be in the East or the West, for they all deny the personal infallibility of the Vicar of Christ. And it is of very small consequence whether they deny much or little of Revelation, if they deny the authority of the one Church of God. That Church is Catholic and Roman. "Now whosoever shall keep the whole law, but offend in one point, is become guilty of all." You ought to hate mortal sin with all your souls, whether it be in the intellectual or moral order. I do not say that you have to hate heretics; you ought to love them and pray for them, as you love and pray for those of the Church who are in mortal sin; but I do say that you can not have too strong and fierce a hatred of heresy.



From http://www.drbo.org/churchenemies.htm
The Church and Her Enemies
by Father Michael Mueller C.SS.R.

 

[Klee shay]

Solo, your quotes from the Catholic sources are making my skin crawl. Are they independent quotes by people who are Catholic, or do they come from the leadership of the Catholic church?

Just curious.

 

[Solo]

Solo, your quotes from the Catholic sources are making my skin crawl. Are they independent quotes by people who are Catholic, or do they come from the leadership of the Catholic church?

Just curious.

These articles that I have posted have been written by Catholics and are posted at http://www.drbo.org/ which is a Douay-Rheims Online Bible page with other Catholic additional reading.

It is interesting that the same perception exists that "if you aint Catholic, you are a heretic", and that perception has brought about the death of many believers of the body of Jesus Christ. The Roman Catholics believe they have the truth of God, lock, stock, and barrel apart from any other being on the earth. Sound pretty satanic, doesn't it.

 

[Klee shay]

That is why it makes my skin crawl.

Those that despise Christ will teach others to despise Christ too. What better way to do it than to indoctrinate people into a "religious" standard which will keep them blind to the true living essence of Christ, and encourages them to teach others to despise the true living essence of Christ in them.

That goes for any religion which claims to know the true message of Christ, but doesn't allow his spirit outside the safety of their little box. Repent - isn't that the way?

Is it true repentence to Christ they're preaching however, or repentance to man for being different?

Matthew 24

3...Take heed that no man deceive you.

4. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

I don't get how any religion can read this passage and think it excludes them. For all of us that say "I am Christ"; we are deceivers. Those that proclaim themselves sinners who need Christ - they are righteous in that Christ is the remedy for their sin. Those that proclaim to know the true Christ and how he will or will not save according to a man's deeds or sins; that is what will deceive many.

Turning the scriptures into man's works is deception. It is diverting the belief in Christ to the hands of men. Is that not how we fell from God's grace in the first place? How the enemy must enjoy fooling us twice!

 

[Solo]

That is why it makes my skin crawl.

Those that despise Christ will teach others to despise Christ too. What better way to do it than to indoctrinate people into a "religious" standard which will keep them blind to the true living essence of Christ, and encourages them to teach others to despise the true living essence of Christ in them.

That goes for any religion which claims to know the true message of Christ, but doesn't allow his spirit outside the safety of their little box. Repent - isn't that the way?

Is it true repentence to Christ they're preaching however, or repentance to man for being different?

Matthew 24

3...Take heed that no man deceive you.

4. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

I don't get how any religion can read this passage and think it excludes them. For all of us that say "I am Christ"; we are deceivers. Those that proclaim themselves sinners who need Christ - they are righteous in that Christ is the remedy for their sin. Those that proclaim to know the true Christ and how he will or will not save according to a man's deeds or sins; that is what will deceive many.

Turning the scriptures into man's works is deception. It is diverting the belief in Christ to the hands of men. Is that not how we fell from God's grace in the first place? How the enemy must enjoy fooling us twice!

Those that have the Holy Spirit as yourself can see the truth of God, and understand his Word, but those that live a life of religiousity are deceived by the enemy.

God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Period. Satan appeared and made the doctrine of not eating of that tree into a more difficult but inviting doctrine. He tempted them by suggesting that God did not mean that they would really die, but instead they would know the same as God, they too would be as God.

Satan has only lies and deceptions as weapons, and he uses them today. The Word says that those that believe in Jesus shall be saved. Satan doesn't like such a simple way for salvation so he clouds it with additional garbage, such as you must belong to this church or that church, you must be water baptized as a baby or immersed as an adult, you must speak in tongues to prove that you have the Holy Spirit or not, etc. etc. etc.

The truth is that each individual on this planet is judged by his/her belief in God, and those that have faith in God's Word will live, and those that have faith in man's word will die.


10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:10-12

God Bless you and yours. Pray unceasingly and continue in the joy of your salvation.