O
Orthodox Christian
Guest
I am being saved.Solo said:PS. You state that you were an evangelical prior to becoming an orthodox; were you saved prior to or as an evangelical or after you joined the orthodox?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Strengthening families through biblical principles.
Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.
Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.
I am being saved.Solo said:PS. You state that you were an evangelical prior to becoming an orthodox; were you saved prior to or as an evangelical or after you joined the orthodox?
Your desire was for a simple yes or no answer to align with your false teaching. I was attempting to show you where you were misunderstanding the scriptures again, but alas and alak you ignore the scriptures again. You are in a continuum of constant derision beholding only to yourself in the mirror of flesh-endowed favoritism. Keep hugging your own preciousness apart from the truth of God's word and you will continue prating with those that hold the gospel of Jesus dear to their hearts, and in the end you will know the error of your way.Orthodox Christian said:Not so- but at least it can be said of me that I have integrity to lose.Solo said:Your integrity is slipping ortho.
.Solo said:You only cut and paste portions of my quotes that serve your underhanded purpose
I didn't quote you in toto because you prattle endlessly when asked a simple yes/no question
Thanks for this unsolicited and ridiculous Fundie jingoism.Heidi is on the money with all of the posts that I have read from her. You might want to be a little more careful on how you attempt to teach, for what I see, Heidi has a much better approach in teaching than you. The love of Jesus shows through her much more than it does others.
How are you being saved?Orthodox Christian said:I am being saved.Solo said:PS. You state that you were an evangelical prior to becoming an orthodox; were you saved prior to or as an evangelical or after you joined the orthodox?
By enduring to the end Mark 13:13Solo said:How are you being saved?Orthodox Christian said:I am being saved.Solo said:PS. You state that you were an evangelical prior to becoming an orthodox; were you saved prior to or as an evangelical or after you joined the orthodox?
By enduring to the end Mark 13:13Orthodox Christian said:How are you being saved?Solo said:[quote="Orthodox Christian":b5c55]I am being saved.Solo said:PS. You state that you were an evangelical prior to becoming an orthodox; were you saved prior to or as an evangelical or after you joined the orthodox?
Thanks for the answer.Solo said:By enduring to the end Mark 13:13Orthodox Christian said:How are you being saved?Solo said:[quote="Orthodox Christian":f7e9f]I am being saved.Solo said:PS. You state that you were an evangelical prior to becoming an orthodox; were you saved prior to or as an evangelical or after you joined the orthodox?
By calling on His Name Acts 2:21
By His life Romans 5:10
Through the testing of my work 1 Corinthians 3:15
By continuing in faith, love, holiness and modesty 1Timothy 2:15
By works done in faith, and faith that produces works James 2:14-18
I am being saved by the Lord. I was saved by His death and resurrection, I am being saved by His life, and I will be saved as He preserves me in obedience to the end. Each of these tenses is found in scripture, and to only cite past tense is just plain unbiblical.
The sacrifice of Christ for sin will not be repeated, nor need it be. If you read the whole chapter, it becomes quite clear: In the Old Covenant, a man would need to make periodic animal offerings to atone for his sins. In the New Covenant, forgiveness for sin is not conditional on the shedding of blood anew. Rather, repentance, confession and faith in Jesus Christ, His life, and His work result in forgiveness, healing, and restoration.I was saved by His death and resurrection
Orthodox Christian said:I am being saved.Solo said:PS. You state that you were an evangelical prior to becoming an orthodox; were you saved prior to or as an evangelical or after you joined the orthodox?
At what point does the Holy Spirit indwell one who believes?Solo said:Thank you for a great answer.
At what point does the Holy Spirit indwell one who believes?
Are all members of the Orthodox Church being saved? Why or why not?
Are there any being saved outside of the Orthodox Church, such as Baptists, Lutherans, Roman Catholics, Assembly of God, Non-denominational, etc. ?
The scriptures would lead one to both place great importance on unity and Godly authority, and yet God remains unfettered to save those whom He will ("I will show mercy upon whom I will show mercy")....John Karmires[8] believes that, since the concept extra ecclesiam nulla salus does not originate from the scripture, it lacks a basic and central characteristic of an Orthodox doctrine (although it has been taught by many Church Fathers). He considers this concept, rather, to be an exhortation to safeguard the unity of the Church against schisms and heresies; he suggests that it should be studied in its historical context. He further explained this concept as suggesting that there is no salvation in the heretical or schismatic churches as independent and self‑sufficient entities. Thus, the members of these churches who have been baptized and who live a just life may be saved; there may even exist people of God who are or will be saved, although they are not recognized as Christians. Karmires advocates that Church members may be considered in a broader, mystical and invisible way people of other Christian churches ‑ and even other religions ‑ since God's grace is not limited to those who are members of the canonical Church; it extends to all people that God desires to save.[9]
Reflecting on the same matter, Metropolitan Damaskinos[10] of Switzerland takes the whole argument a step further. He calls on the Orthodox Church to re‑evaluate its understanding of its relationship to other Christian churches and religions by affirming all those who confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour as Church members.[11] Referring to those churches which claim to be present manifestations of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church - I presume he has in mind Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism - he states that they must search for and recognize as churches in the full sense of the word "church" those Christian communions which exist beyond their canonical boundaries. This should be done of course wherever possible and should lead into eucharistic communion (which presupposes unity in the faith and church structures of the apostolic tradition). His remarks, here, are particularly significant for ecumenism. He implies that those churches which claim to be in continuity with the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church should recognize each other as manifestations of the one Church and that they should proceed further to recognize other Christian communions as churches ‑ provided that they adhere to the same apostolic faith and the structure of their churches are in continuity with the apostolic tradition. This presupposes, however, that all Christians ‑ including the Orthodox ‑ can transcend their fanaticism and, being filled with Christ's love, may search, find and recognize as brothers those who live beyond their canonical boundaries. Towards this goal, he thinks that it would be helpful if the bilateral dialogues develop models of unity for the greater advancement of the Christian Church unity.
I think you need to deal with the scripture that I have posted for each statement that I made before we move on to your philosophical objections to my stated theology.Heidi said:Orthodox Christian said:I am being saved.Solo said:PS. You state that you were an evangelical prior to becoming an orthodox; were you saved prior to or as an evangelical or after you joined the orthodox?
So what is it that causes you to be saved, Orthodox? :o It certainly can't be Christ's death because he died 2,000 years ago and you're saying that wasn't enough. So what is it? Your wonderful intelligence, and wisdom? or maybe your holiness and righteousness? That's what the Pharisees thought also. ;-) If you can lose your salvation, then you're saying that your salvation depends on you instead of Christ, are you not? So what in the world did Jesus die for? :o
I am relieved that you believe that one can be saved without being an Orthodox Church member. Thank you for your intelligent answers. I will ramble on for a bit now in addressing the oneness that believers should have together with God. Forgive me for not replying immediately, I have been studying, posting short answers to other posts on two boards, and spending time with my family.Orthodox Christian said:At what point does the Holy Spirit indwell one who believes?Solo said:Thank you for a great answer.
At what point does the Holy Spirit indwell one who believes?
Are all members of the Orthodox Church being saved? Why or why not?
Are there any being saved outside of the Orthodox Church, such as Baptists, Lutherans, Roman Catholics, Assembly of God, Non-denominational, etc. ?
I think we both know the scriptures:
Gal 3:2
Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by keeping the law? Of course not, for the Holy Spirit came upon you only after you believed the message you heard about Christ.
Eph 1:13
In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
Eph 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Are all members of the Orthodox Church being saved?
Yes and no.
yes:
By placing themselves within the worshipping community, they are being 'sanctified,' in the sense that an unbelieving spouse is 'sanctified' by a believing spouse. 1 Corinthians 7:14.
no:
This does not refer to the ultimate, eternal salvation unto God, but an opportunity.
Not all that call themself by His Name will be saved- many will say to Him in that day "lord, Lord..." and He will, as He said, declare to them that He never knew them.
Are there any being saved outside of the Orthodox Church, such as Baptists, Lutherans, Roman Catholics, Assembly of God, Non-denominational, etc. ?
I've covered this elsewhere, but it bears repeating:
There is a difference of opinion on this matter within the Orthodox communion. I happen to hold the following view, excerpted from this
source
The scriptures would lead one to both place great importance on unity and Godly authority, and yet God remains unfettered to save those whom He will ("I will show mercy upon whom I will show mercy")....John Karmires[8] believes that, since the concept extra ecclesiam nulla salus does not originate from the scripture, it lacks a basic and central characteristic of an Orthodox doctrine (although it has been taught by many Church Fathers). He considers this concept, rather, to be an exhortation to safeguard the unity of the Church against schisms and heresies; he suggests that it should be studied in its historical context. He further explained this concept as suggesting that there is no salvation in the heretical or schismatic churches as independent and self‑sufficient entities. Thus, the members of these churches who have been baptized and who live a just life may be saved; there may even exist people of God who are or will be saved, although they are not recognized as Christians. Karmires advocates that Church members may be considered in a broader, mystical and invisible way people of other Christian churches ‑ and even other religions ‑ since God's grace is not limited to those who are members of the canonical Church; it extends to all people that God desires to save.[9]
Reflecting on the same matter, Metropolitan Damaskinos[10] of Switzerland takes the whole argument a step further. He calls on the Orthodox Church to re‑evaluate its understanding of its relationship to other Christian churches and religions by affirming all those who confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour as Church members.[11] Referring to those churches which claim to be present manifestations of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church - I presume he has in mind Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism - he states that they must search for and recognize as churches in the full sense of the word "church" those Christian communions which exist beyond their canonical boundaries. This should be done of course wherever possible and should lead into eucharistic communion (which presupposes unity in the faith and church structures of the apostolic tradition). His remarks, here, are particularly significant for ecumenism. He implies that those churches which claim to be in continuity with the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church should recognize each other as manifestations of the one Church and that they should proceed further to recognize other Christian communions as churches ‑ provided that they adhere to the same apostolic faith and the structure of their churches are in continuity with the apostolic tradition. This presupposes, however, that all Christians ‑ including the Orthodox ‑ can transcend their fanaticism and, being filled with Christ's love, may search, find and recognize as brothers those who live beyond their canonical boundaries. Towards this goal, he thinks that it would be helpful if the bilateral dialogues develop models of unity for the greater advancement of the Christian Church unity.
So, my short order is yes. I anticipate the next question, which is "why is it then necessary for others to be of your communion?" My reply is a question: Did Jesus not pray that we be One, and does not Paul say that there is One faith, One baptism, One Lord? And further, what sort of witness to the world is this obvious disunity?
And that says nothing of the issues of authority, sacraments, and the like. I leave those out because they will digress from the simplest and straightest answer to the question I asked in your stead: Division is grievous, if it not be righteous division. I for one am not convinced that the present divisions are righteous.