francisdesales
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I found this exchange rather interesting, and, I believe, may help my brother Protestants explain the Catholic view on how we feel about Mary. If I can put the shoe on the other foot, so to speak, the experience may help Protestants better understand why Catholics become frustrated on explaining the subject of Mary.
The following is an excerpt taken from the book "Mary-A Catholic Evangelical Debate" written by Dave Gustafson and Father Dwight Longenecker. It makes an interesting comparison between how Catholics look at Mary and how Protestants look at the Bible - and in both cases, say TOGETHER that they are used to come to Jesus Christ!
Mr. Gustafson, the Protestant, is in red.
Father Longnecker, the Catholic, is in green.
All bolding and underscoring is my emphasis.
.....
Mr. Gustafson, a Protestant, writes:
{We then came to}...a Polish chapel features “Our Lady of Czestochowa“. In that chapel is posted a prayer to Mary (“An Act of Consecration to the Mother of Godâ€Â) by the heroic Polish Cardinal, Stephan Wyszynski. His prayer caught my {Mr. Gustafson} attentionâ€â€it made me sad, actuallyâ€â€and impressed itself on my memory:
O Mother of God, Immaculate Mary! To Thee do I dedicate my body and soul, all my prayers and deeds, my joys and sufferings, all that I am and all that I have. With a joyful heart I surrender myself to Thy bondage of love. To Thee will I devote my service of my own free will for the salvation of mankind, and for the help of the Holy Church whose Mother Thou art. From now on my only desire is to do all things with Thee, through Thee, and for Thee. I know I can accomplish nothing with my own strength, whereas Thou canst do everything that is the will of Thy Son, and Thou art always victorious. Grant, therefore, O Helper of the faithful, that my family, my parish, and my homeland might become in truth the Kingdom where Thou reignest with Thy Son. Amen.
For life in the maternal bondage of Mary for the Holy Church,
My blessing,
Stefan Cardinal Wyszynski
If Cardinal Wyszynski’s references to Mary and Jesus were replaced by references to Jesus and the Father, this prayer would be uncontroversially Christian.
As it is, I cannot understand how a Christian minister can commend this prayer. To whom does the Christian properly dedicate himself, body and soul? (Php. 3:7-14.) Whom does the Christian want to serve, be with, work through and for? (Matt. 10:37; Col. 3:24.) Through whom can the Christian do all things? (Php. 4:13.) Who reigns in the Christian’s kingdom? (1 Cor. 15:25.) My little citations to proof texts are ridiculous. Even the most careless reading of the New Testament admits only one answer to all these questions: Jesus Christ.
Can I hope that Cardinal Wyszynski’s “Act of Consecrationâ€Â, addressed instead to Jesus’ mother Mary, is an aberration, and that in reality Catholics are not encouraged to devote themselves to Mary in this extravagant way?------
Certainly a reasonable question towards Catholics. And difficult to explain!
Here is Father Longenecker's reply, which, by analogy, may be very helpful for Protestants...
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The problem with your {Mr. Gustafson} analysis is the “either-or†mentality. You assume Marian devotion must take the place of proper devotion to the Lord.
Let me use an analogy to show you how strange this charge seems to Catholics. Try to imagine what it would be like if you discovered that another Christian group thought Evangelicals were in grave error because of your emphasis on the Bible.
These fictional Christians say rather aggressively, “You evangelicals stress the Bible to the neglect of Jesus. You call your churches ‘Bible’ churches and have ’Bible’ colleges instead of ‘Christian’ churches and colleges. Inside your church you don’t have pictures of Jesus, you don’t have any crucifixes; and you don’t have the Stations of the Cross. Instead, all you have is a big central pulpit to preach the Bible. The New Testament says that the early Christians “devoted themselves … to the breaking of the bread†(Acts 2:42) and that the way to remember Jesus and proclaim his death is through the Eucharist (1 Cor. 11:24-26); yet you Evangelicals have the Lord’s Supper once a month, or even less often, and the main feature of your church service is a long Bible sermon. You have removed the cross of Christ and replaced it with the Bible.â€Â
“You even have a formal doctrine named sola Scriptura. This man-made dogma is a later distortion and addition to the Christian faithâ€â€something that is unheard of both in the Scriptures themselves and in the early church. This dogma (which you treat as infallible) states that the Bible and not Jesus is the only source of Truth. You teach your children to memorize Bible verses instead of receiving Jesus in communion. You teach them to sing, ‘The B-I-B-L-E, / Yes that‘s the book for me. / I stand alone on the word of God….’ Notice how they are not to stand alone on the sure foundation of Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 3:11), but on the Bible instead! Evangelical preachers say that there is no way anyone can come to God without believing the Bible. They declare their undying love for the Bible instead of Jesus. They say how their lives are totally dedicated to preaching the Bible instead of the cross of Christ.â€Â
If someone were to make this charge a good Evangelical might well snort with dismay and bewilderment. How could someone so misunderstand his position? Surely they are doing it on purpose! The good Evangelical would patiently explain to his critic, “You have misunderstood completely. Sola Scriptura doesn’t set the Bible in opposition to Jesus. It does exactly the opposite: it helps us to glorify Jesus. Don’t you see that we love the Bible because it gives us access to our Savior? It’s true that we believe people need to know the Bible, but that’s because the written Word and the incarnate Word are inextricably intertwined. You can’t have one without the other. It is really Jesus we worship and proclaim through the Bible. If you just look at our whole practice and teaching with an open mind you would see how misguided and mistaken you really are.â€Â
To your dismay your critic dismisses your explanations. “No, no,†he says as he sadly shakes his head. “That all sounds very plausible, but you will never convince me. I just know that you worship the Bible instead of Jesus, and all your clever word play just goes to show how blind you really are.â€Â
Now perhaps you understand how Catholics feel when Evangelicals say similar things about their Catholic understanding of Mary. We reply, “Are you serious? How can you possibly make such a fundamental and basic mistake about what we believe? We don’t venerate Mary on her own, but because she has given us our Savior and because she constantly leads us to him. If you took time to study our whole teaching ad practice you will see how this is true. We admit that some Catholics may over-emphasize Mary, just like some Evangelicals may take extreme views on the Bible, but when you see the full picture you can’t make such a terrible mistake.â€Â
-------
I thought it was an interesting way of trying to allow another to see things from the Catholic point of view.
Regards
I found this exchange rather interesting, and, I believe, may help my brother Protestants explain the Catholic view on how we feel about Mary. If I can put the shoe on the other foot, so to speak, the experience may help Protestants better understand why Catholics become frustrated on explaining the subject of Mary.
The following is an excerpt taken from the book "Mary-A Catholic Evangelical Debate" written by Dave Gustafson and Father Dwight Longenecker. It makes an interesting comparison between how Catholics look at Mary and how Protestants look at the Bible - and in both cases, say TOGETHER that they are used to come to Jesus Christ!
Mr. Gustafson, the Protestant, is in red.
Father Longnecker, the Catholic, is in green.
All bolding and underscoring is my emphasis.
.....
Mr. Gustafson, a Protestant, writes:
{We then came to}...a Polish chapel features “Our Lady of Czestochowa“. In that chapel is posted a prayer to Mary (“An Act of Consecration to the Mother of Godâ€Â) by the heroic Polish Cardinal, Stephan Wyszynski. His prayer caught my {Mr. Gustafson} attentionâ€â€it made me sad, actuallyâ€â€and impressed itself on my memory:
O Mother of God, Immaculate Mary! To Thee do I dedicate my body and soul, all my prayers and deeds, my joys and sufferings, all that I am and all that I have. With a joyful heart I surrender myself to Thy bondage of love. To Thee will I devote my service of my own free will for the salvation of mankind, and for the help of the Holy Church whose Mother Thou art. From now on my only desire is to do all things with Thee, through Thee, and for Thee. I know I can accomplish nothing with my own strength, whereas Thou canst do everything that is the will of Thy Son, and Thou art always victorious. Grant, therefore, O Helper of the faithful, that my family, my parish, and my homeland might become in truth the Kingdom where Thou reignest with Thy Son. Amen.
For life in the maternal bondage of Mary for the Holy Church,
My blessing,
Stefan Cardinal Wyszynski
If Cardinal Wyszynski’s references to Mary and Jesus were replaced by references to Jesus and the Father, this prayer would be uncontroversially Christian.
As it is, I cannot understand how a Christian minister can commend this prayer. To whom does the Christian properly dedicate himself, body and soul? (Php. 3:7-14.) Whom does the Christian want to serve, be with, work through and for? (Matt. 10:37; Col. 3:24.) Through whom can the Christian do all things? (Php. 4:13.) Who reigns in the Christian’s kingdom? (1 Cor. 15:25.) My little citations to proof texts are ridiculous. Even the most careless reading of the New Testament admits only one answer to all these questions: Jesus Christ.
Can I hope that Cardinal Wyszynski’s “Act of Consecrationâ€Â, addressed instead to Jesus’ mother Mary, is an aberration, and that in reality Catholics are not encouraged to devote themselves to Mary in this extravagant way?------
Certainly a reasonable question towards Catholics. And difficult to explain!
Here is Father Longenecker's reply, which, by analogy, may be very helpful for Protestants...
-------
The problem with your {Mr. Gustafson} analysis is the “either-or†mentality. You assume Marian devotion must take the place of proper devotion to the Lord.
Let me use an analogy to show you how strange this charge seems to Catholics. Try to imagine what it would be like if you discovered that another Christian group thought Evangelicals were in grave error because of your emphasis on the Bible.
These fictional Christians say rather aggressively, “You evangelicals stress the Bible to the neglect of Jesus. You call your churches ‘Bible’ churches and have ’Bible’ colleges instead of ‘Christian’ churches and colleges. Inside your church you don’t have pictures of Jesus, you don’t have any crucifixes; and you don’t have the Stations of the Cross. Instead, all you have is a big central pulpit to preach the Bible. The New Testament says that the early Christians “devoted themselves … to the breaking of the bread†(Acts 2:42) and that the way to remember Jesus and proclaim his death is through the Eucharist (1 Cor. 11:24-26); yet you Evangelicals have the Lord’s Supper once a month, or even less often, and the main feature of your church service is a long Bible sermon. You have removed the cross of Christ and replaced it with the Bible.â€Â
“You even have a formal doctrine named sola Scriptura. This man-made dogma is a later distortion and addition to the Christian faithâ€â€something that is unheard of both in the Scriptures themselves and in the early church. This dogma (which you treat as infallible) states that the Bible and not Jesus is the only source of Truth. You teach your children to memorize Bible verses instead of receiving Jesus in communion. You teach them to sing, ‘The B-I-B-L-E, / Yes that‘s the book for me. / I stand alone on the word of God….’ Notice how they are not to stand alone on the sure foundation of Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 3:11), but on the Bible instead! Evangelical preachers say that there is no way anyone can come to God without believing the Bible. They declare their undying love for the Bible instead of Jesus. They say how their lives are totally dedicated to preaching the Bible instead of the cross of Christ.â€Â
If someone were to make this charge a good Evangelical might well snort with dismay and bewilderment. How could someone so misunderstand his position? Surely they are doing it on purpose! The good Evangelical would patiently explain to his critic, “You have misunderstood completely. Sola Scriptura doesn’t set the Bible in opposition to Jesus. It does exactly the opposite: it helps us to glorify Jesus. Don’t you see that we love the Bible because it gives us access to our Savior? It’s true that we believe people need to know the Bible, but that’s because the written Word and the incarnate Word are inextricably intertwined. You can’t have one without the other. It is really Jesus we worship and proclaim through the Bible. If you just look at our whole practice and teaching with an open mind you would see how misguided and mistaken you really are.â€Â
To your dismay your critic dismisses your explanations. “No, no,†he says as he sadly shakes his head. “That all sounds very plausible, but you will never convince me. I just know that you worship the Bible instead of Jesus, and all your clever word play just goes to show how blind you really are.â€Â
Now perhaps you understand how Catholics feel when Evangelicals say similar things about their Catholic understanding of Mary. We reply, “Are you serious? How can you possibly make such a fundamental and basic mistake about what we believe? We don’t venerate Mary on her own, but because she has given us our Savior and because she constantly leads us to him. If you took time to study our whole teaching ad practice you will see how this is true. We admit that some Catholics may over-emphasize Mary, just like some Evangelicals may take extreme views on the Bible, but when you see the full picture you can’t make such a terrible mistake.â€Â
-------
I thought it was an interesting way of trying to allow another to see things from the Catholic point of view.
Regards
