Catholics Do Not Have To Believe All Catholic Doctrine

[thessalonian]

Umm.... I know that Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the Life, So I know where I'm going! no doubt about that! the question is... do you?? (you better check yourself)

I didn't judge where you are going.

I think this applies to women as well.


1 Cor 10
[11] Now these things happened to them as a warning, but they were written down for our instruction, upon whom the end of the ages has come.
[12] Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

I don't think it's a bluff. Do you?

 

[Guest]

I didn't judge where you are going.

I think this applies to women as well.


1 Cor 10
[11] Now these things happened to them as a warning, but they were written down for our instruction, upon whom the end of the ages has come.
[12] Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

I don't think it's a bluff. Do you?

No - I do not believe it is a 'bluff' - however, it would be better of you to put the verse in the context of the whole chapter.

 

[Solo]

I didn't judge where you are going.

I think this applies to women as well.


1 Cor 10
[11] Now these things happened to them as a warning, but they were written down for our instruction, upon whom the end of the ages has come.
[12] Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

I don't think it's a bluff. Do you?

No - I do not believe it is a 'bluff' - however, it would be better of you to put the verse in the context of the whole chapter.

I suppose you would like for him to start interpreting Scripture by following the guidence of the Holy Spirit too, huh?!!! 8-)

 

[Guest]

I suppose you would like for him to start interpreting Scripture by following the guidence of the Holy Spirit too, huh?!!! 8-)

That is the role of the Holy Spirit - I have found that He does it best!

 

[thessalonian]

No - I do not believe it is a 'bluff' - however, it would be better of you to put the verse in the context of the whole chapter.

I am quite fine with the context not supporting OSAS but supporting that if one continues in sin, one can perish, ie. fall. Presumption is not a good thing. God is both just and merciful. Mercy comes in if we rely on Christ to work toward overcoming our sinfulness. Justice comes in to play if we sin wantonly after recieving the gift.

 

[Guest]

I am quite fine with the context not supporting OSAS but supporting that if one continues in sin, one can perish, ie. fall. Presumption is not a good thing. God is both just and merciful. Mercy comes in if we rely on Christ to work toward overcoming our sinfulness. Justice comes in to play if we sin wantonly after recieving the gift.

I am not asking for you to agree with OSAS or not. Merely, if you put the verses you plucked backed into the context for which they below - you might see the meaning of the verses.

However, you clearly stated that you are "quite fine" with your intrepretation and understanding. So, I suppose discussion of this passage is moot with you.

 

[thessalonian]

I read the context and I reread it. We CAthlics believe in the Holy Spirit you know. The Holy Spirit tells me something different about the passage than your holy spirit. One of them is not the Holy Spirit? Guess which Holy Spirit I'm going with?

Explain how the context contradicts my view that one can fall away from the faith?

 

[Guest]

I read the context and I reread it. We CAthlics believe in the Holy Spirit you know. The Holy Spirit tells me something different about the passage than your holy spirit. One of them is not the Holy Spirit? Guess which Holy Spirit I'm going with?

Explain how the context contradicts my view that one can fall away from the faith?

Did I ever say that you did not believe in the Holy Spirit or that Catholics did not believe in the Holy Spirit?

If you do not mind, I would like to ask for an explanation on why you purposefully captialiized the Holy Spirit when you referenced yourself, but made it lower case when referring to me? I do not believe this to be an accident.

I will return to this thread an give an explaination - I am getting ready to leave for work.

 

[thessalonian]

Well if what you say abotu a passage contradicts what I beleive and know to be true i cannot acknowledge what you teach as coming from the Holy Spirit. Sorry.

 

[Guest]

Well if what you say abotu a passage contradicts what I beleive and know to be true i cannot acknowledge what you teach as coming from the Holy Spirit. Sorry.

I did not ask for an apology - merely an explaination. So - there is nothing to be sorry about.

 

[Solo]

If you do not mind, I would like to ask for an explanation on why you purposefully captialiized the Holy Spirit when you referenced yourself, but made it lower case when referring to me? I do not believe this to be an accident.

As I have contended since becoming a believer is that the Roman Catholic holy spirit is a different spirit than the Holy Spirit of born of God, born again believers.

The teachings of the Roman Catholic church are satanic, therefore, we can know the spirit that is behind the lies of its teachings; the father of lies.

 

[thessalonian]

God bless you solo. :-D

 

[ThreeInOne]

The teachings of the Roman Catholic church are satanic, therefore, we can know the spirit that is behind the lies of its teachings; the father of lies.

Go Solo, Go Solo, Go Solo!!!! Yay! :angel: :smt026 :smt024 :smt035 :smt038

 

[Devekut]

The teachings of the Roman Catholic church are satanic, therefore, we can know the spirit that is behind the lies of its teachings; the father of lies.

I find it telling of these forums' administration that claims such as these can be regularly made, yet Catholics on these forums are not allowed to start their own threads with the intent of explaining the acutal content of Catholic belief.

 

[sisterchristian]

What difference does it make if I do not leave the RCC and do not join a Fundamentalist Protestant Church? I will still gain entrance into Heaven because of having become Born Again by praying to Christ and asking Him to become my Savior. Belonging to a Fundamentalist Protestant Church is not required for gaining entrance into Heaven. When everybody stands before Christ after they pass away He will not require for entrance into Heaven that everybody had belonged to a Fundamentalist Protestant Church in addition to having received Him as their Savior. The only thing that Christ will require for entrance into Heaven is that everybody had received Him as their Savior. :morning:

Well then Robert, If you are content with your just entering into heaven by the skin of your back side than so be it! :o

 

[Guest]

Well if what you say abotu a passage contradicts what I beleive and know to be true i cannot acknowledge what you teach as coming from the Holy Spirit. Sorry.

I want to thank you for providing an explaination. As I said earlier - I did not ask for an apology - just an explaination.

However, at this time I will ask for an apology for you previous statement. I believe it to be offensive to not give the respect to the Holy Spirit that He deserves. Regardless if you believe my intrepetation or not - there is no reason to insult the Holy Spirit, or to insult myself.

In regards to 1 Corinthians 10 - I suggested that you need to put the two verses you plucked into the larger context of the whole chapter. Therefore, let me quote the chapter and then provide my understanding of the passage. This is an opportunity not to slam one another, but to dialogue about the passage and to possibly learn from one another - are question we need to ask ourselves is: Am I Teachable?

For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea;
2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3and all ate the same spiritual food;
4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.
7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, "THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY."
8Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.
9Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents.
10Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
12Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.
13No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.
14Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.
15I speak as to wise men; you judge what I say.
16Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ?
17Since there is one bread, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one bread.
18Look at the nation Israel; are not those who eat the sacrifices sharers in the altar?
19What do I mean then? That a thing sacrificed to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything?
20No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons.
21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.
22Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? We are not stronger than He, are we?
23All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable All things are lawful, but not all things edify.
24Let no one seek his own good, but that of his neighbor.
25Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience' sake;
26FOR THE EARTH IS THE LORD'S, AND ALL IT CONTAINS.
27If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience' sake.
28But if anyone says to you, "This is meat sacrificed to idols," do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience' sake;
29I mean not your own conscience, but the other man's; for why is my freedom judged by another's conscience?
30If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks?
31Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
32Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God;
33just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit but the profit of the many, so that they may be saved.

Immediately in verse 1 we see that Paul is referring to "our fathers" who "were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea" - this is in reference to the Hebrew people - Israel. Paul goes on to say that they were all baptized into Moses, all ate the same spiritual food, all drank the same spiritual drink - however, in verse 5 Paul says that God was not pleased and that in some were 'laid low in the wilderness' (cf: Numbers 14:29ff)

Paul tells us this was an example (verse 6) for us so that we would not crave the evil things (like they craved), do not become idolaters (like they did), do not act immorally (like they did), do not "try the Lord" (like they did)

Again Paul says in verse 11 that this is to serve as an example so that we are to learn from them.

Verse 12 states that "Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall"

I would suggest that this is referring to the person who believes they are standing on their own two feet without the support of the Rock - Jesus Christ under their feet. Paul is not suggesting that one will lose their salvation - but rather, that we would not fall into sin and the temptations of lust, immorality, gumbling, and testing the Lord like their fathers did.

Verse 13 shows that temptations are real, but that God is there - He is faithful to provide a way out from the temptations.

Praise God of the promise that we will not be tempted beyong "what we are able" and that God will provide a way out - "the way of escape also, so that we will be able to endure it.

Paul is teaching us that we are to stand on the Rock of Christ Jesus - that we are not to stand on our own feet.

It is when a believer attempts to stand on his own feet (by his own power) when he will fall into the temptations of sin. However, this does not mean that salvation is lost.

 

[thessalonian]

Paul is not suggesting that one will lose their salvation - but rather, that we would not fall into sin and the temptations of lust, immorality, gumbling, and testing the Lord like their fathers did.

I agree with most of your exegesis about the passage being about standing on Christ rather than on our own. However, this is what I figured you would do. Force the doctrine of OSAS on the passage. God does give us a way out but we don't always take it. The passage does not guarantee that we will not sin and sin leads to more sin unless we nip it in the bud. The passage in fact says that we can fall away. Paul elsewhere in Galatians says we can fall from grace, severed from Christ. He uses the phrase "cut off" in Romans 11.. Now I don't know how one can fall from grace or be severed from Christ and still be saved. Your interpretation of the passage using the lense of OSAS, which is not even an essential doctrine for most OSAS Christians, is forced at best.

 

[golfjack]

reply

Who does the severing from Christ Thess. Is it sin or ourselves? How many sins do I have to commit to be severed from Christ and what kind of sins? Do you get my point? One more: Can our recreated spirits sin?



May God bless, Golfjack

 

[Guest]

I agree with most of your exegesis about the passage being about standing on Christ rather than on our own. However, this is what I figured you would do. Force the doctrine of OSAS on the passage. God does give us a way out but we don't always take it. The passage does not guarantee that we will not sin and sin leads to more sin unless we nip it in the bud. The passage in fact says that we can fall away. Paul elsewhere in Galatians says we can fall from grace, severed from Christ. He uses the phrase "cut off" in Romans 11.. Now I don't know how one can fall from grace or be severed from Christ and still be saved. Your interpretation of the passage using the lense of OSAS, which is not even an essential doctrine for most OSAS Christians, is forced at best.

Thess - first I did not "force" anything, but rather spoke to what the passage says.

However, it is clear that you are not interested in what others have to say - as you said you will believe what you want to believe.

 

[thessalonian]

Re: reply

Who does the severing from Christ Thess. Is it sin or ourselves? How many sins do I have to commit to be severed from Christ and what kind of sins? Do you get my point? One more: Can our recreated spirits sin?



May God bless, Golfjack

So your OSAS now? Thought you weren't. I get your point but it's not a valid one. John tells us some sins are mortal and he's not talking about physical death. You don't think that killing someone in anger would severe you from Christ? Foolishness. Adutery? If you do something serious against God's laws with full knowledge and will it can separate you from God. Either that or the passage in question is a bluff. I don't see God as a bluffer.