Catholics Do Not Have To Believe All Catholic Doctrine

[thessalonian]

Thess - first I did not "force" anything, but rather spoke to what the passage says.

Yes, you interpreted fall without looking at other passages that speak of falling away, through the lens of OSAS in fact. You will not admit it but it colored your reading of the words.

However, it is clear that you are not interested in what others have to say - as you said you will believe what you want to believe.

ditto back at ya. :-? Hadn't noticed you giving my words full consideration either. The are pretty much DOA. But what you have is a set of personal interpretations with no guarantee of them being correct and thousands of conflicting denominations of which you only know that you may be right on some set of your teachings. Catholicism is a package deal and it all fits the Bible. You just can't see it.

 

[golfjack]

reply

Thess. The only sin that can separate a believer from God is the unpardonable sin. So you see that I am not OSAS, but I don't see many believers actually deliberabetely, denying Jesus Christ after they are saved. I have no idea what you are talking about when you mention Mortal sin. All sin is Mortal if one doesn't accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savier. Read Heb. 10:26-30 and you will find out how a believer can lose salvation. Notice, willfully sin in verse 26. That means one sin. If it were many sins, then one must throw out 1 John 1:9.



May God bless, Golfjack

 

[thessalonian]

Re: reply

Thess. The only sin that can separate a believer from God is the unpardonable sin. So you see that I am not OSAS, but I don't see many believers actually deliberabetely, denying Jesus Christ after they are saved. I have no idea what you are talking about when you mention Mortal sin. All sin is Mortal if one doesn't accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savier. Read Heb. 10:26-30 and you will find out how a believer can lose salvation. Notice, willfully sin in verse 26. That means one sin. If it were many sins, then one must throw out 1 John 1:9.



May God bless, Golfjack

I know believers can fall from grace. There are many such passages. But of course you must argue against the Catholic.

golfjack has his own little set of theology that is different from lonevoice that is different from solo that is different from heidi that is different from vic that is different..... And on and on it goes. Of course the one thing they agree on is that the Catholics are wrong.

I never said that many sins became mortal. And no one sin is not equal to another. And it is quite possible for you to not understand something and it still be right. In fact it is likely since God is beyond our understanding.

You don't know what I am talking about most of the time because your really not open to listening. I don't judge you for that but you harbor bitterness because of your post toward the Catholic Church. But once again that you had issues with people in the Catholic Church doesn't prove it wrong. It just makes it very hard for you to be open to it. Interestingly enough most people who come to Catholicism don't harbor bitterness toward their past denomination and even outright hostility. They just come to see the fullness of the truth in the Catholic faith by the grace of God.

 

[Guest]

Re: reply

golfjack has his own little set of theology that is different from lonevoice that is different from solo that is different from heidi that is different from vic that is different..... And on and on it goes. Of course the one thing they agree on is that the Catholics are wrong.

Thess - it would appear that you have a 'Catholic chip" on your shoulder and that you feel everyone here is out to get you because you are Catholic.

I was mearly disagreeing with your use of the verses you plucked as an attempt to rebuke another poster.

And no, you cannot 'ditto' back at me - because I have not said that I will not listen to other's views on passages - whereby you insulted the Holy Spirit by not capitalizing His name and giving Him the proper respect.

 

[golfjack]

reply

Thess. You are right that the Bible says not to pray for one who has committed the sin leading to death ( spiritual death). Now, why is this? Because the sin leading to death is the unpardonable sin, which is in line with Matt. 31. We don't pray for one in this condition because they have lost their salvation and can never get it back, as confirmed by Heb. 6:4-6.

I believe there were some in the Galatian church who did fall from grace. Why did they? Because they went back to the old law, and actually denied the resurrection. Paul was concerned about false teachers comimg into the community and stirring them to break ranks and go back to Jerusalem and deny Christ in public. Again, this sin cannot be forgiven and one must fulfill the conditions of Heb. 6:4-6 to qualify. I believe all the believers in the Galatian church were Spirit-filled, and that would qualify them to be able to lose their salvation. I also believe this sin is not committed that much. Just a warning in the Bible to be careful to not to give access to Satan in one's life.


May God bless, Golfjack

 

[sisterchristian]

Re: reply

I know believers can fall from grace. There are many such passages. But of course you must argue against the Catholic.

golfjack has his own little set of theology that is different from lonevoice that is different from solo that is different from heidi that is different from vic that is different..... And on and on it goes. Of course the one thing they agree on is that the Catholics are wrong.

I never said that many sins became mortal. And no one sin is not equal to another. And it is quite possible for you to not understand something and it still be right. In fact it is likely since God is beyond our understanding.

You don't know what I am talking about most of the time because your really not open to listening. I don't judge you for that but you harbor bitterness because of your post toward the Catholic Church. But once again that you had issues with people in the Catholic Church doesn't prove it wrong. It just makes it very hard for you to be open to it. Interestingly enough most people who come to Catholicism don't harbor bitterness toward their past denomination and even outright hostility. They just come to see the fullness of the truth in the Catholic faith by the grace of God.

Look on the thread, I think it's Worshipping Statues or something like that, And than you Explain the picture that was posted on there! It pretty much speaks for itself though concerning the Catholic Church!

 

[thessalonian]

Re: reply

Thess - it would appear that you have a 'Catholic chip" on your shoulder and that you feel everyone here is out to get you because you are Catholic.

When I raise an issue that is difficult for protestants to answer in a coherent fashion I have a chip on my shoulder?

I was mearly disagreeing with your use of the verses you plucked as an attempt to rebuke another poster.

don't know that I rebuked golfjack. I believe I just contended with his thinking on a passage.

And no, you cannot 'ditto' back at me - because I have not said that I will not listen to other's views on passages

My views seem to be rather dead on arrival with you.

- whereby you insulted the Holy Spirit by not capitalizing His name and giving Him the proper respect.

I did not insult the Holy Spirit of truth who is not the holy spirit of contradiction. If something contradicts the truth it is not the Holy Spirit. So I would be insulting the real Holy Spirit by callend the holy spirit by his name.

 

[thessalonian]

Re: reply

Look on the thread, I think it's Worshipping Statues or something like that, And than you Explain the picture that was posted on there! It pretty much speaks for itself though concerning the Catholic Church!

What does your judging the hearts and minds of people you don't even know based on your false interpretations that bowing down and having statues is always idolatry have to do with sola scriptura or my post? That's the topic you know.

By the way I looked for the picture but couldn't find it.

Blessings

 

[sisterchristian]

Re: reply

What does your judging the hearts and minds of people you don't even know based on your false interpretations that bowing down and having statues is always idolatry have to do with sola scriptura or my post? That's the topic you know.

By the way I looked for the picture but couldn't find it.

Blessings

just to show you how wrong the Catholic church is, Iknow I shouldn't have quoted your post when I wrote that above, but I did. Atonement had posted a picture of the pope offering a burnt inscense to a huge statue of Mary, thanking her for something! Just pointing out something that you as a Catholic seem to keep defending, that is JUST WRONG!

 

[thessalonian]

Re: reply

just to show you how wrong the Catholic church is, Iknow I shouldn't have quoted your post when I wrote that above, but I did. Atonement had posted a picture of the pope offering a burnt inscense to a huge statue of Mary, thanking her for something! Just pointing out something that you as a Catholic seem to keep defending, that is JUST WRONG!

Once again I did a search based on the additional information and could not find it. Without actually seeing the picture this is somewhat speculative, but I know of no instance in the Church where incense is offered to anyone but God. My belief is that the incident you speak of is one where a stature was being blessed. The blessing would be asked of God in a prayer while the incense was being offered up. Therefore just looking at a picture would not tell the whole story. I've seen many things incensed and it has always been in the context of dedicating something for the purposes of the Church toward God. That is what a blessing is, i.e. a dedication of something for Goly purposes. I highly doudt that the incense was offered to Mary from my experience with the use of incense in the Catholic Church. It likely was an initial dedication of the statue.

 

[jgredline]

I believe this is the pic...

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=29100

 

[thessalonian]

I believe this is the pic...

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=29100

Sure looks to me like he is doing what is called "incensing" the statue, i.e. blessing or dedicating it to God to whom the incense represents the prayers going up to. You can't tell what the Pope is saying or thinking from a picture but incense is used in blessings and is waved over whatever is being blessed. Altars are often incensed in the same manner as I see in that picture. You can't offer incense to an altar now can you?

but of course you will declare yourself the winner of this debate because you know more about Catholicism than I apparently.

 

[sisterchristian]

Sure looks to me like he is doing what is called "incensing" the statue, i.e. blessing or dedicating it to God to whom the incense represents the prayers going up to. You can't tell what the Pope is saying or thinking from a picture but incense is used in blessings and is waved over whatever is being blessed. Altars are often incensed in the same manner as I see in that picture. You can't offer incense to an altar now can you?

but of course you will declare yourself the winner of this debate because you know more about Catholicism than I apparently.

You will just keep on making up some excuse or reasonings for all the stuff that goes on in the Catholic Church won't you? Even if the proof is staring you right in the face! But just like Pharoah, the more you deny the more God will harden your heart to the truth.

 

[thessalonian]

You will just keep on making up some excuse or reasonings for all the stuff that goes on in the Catholic Church won't you? Even if the proof is staring you right in the face! But just like Pharoah, the more you deny the more God will harden your heart to the truth.

You don't even know what incense is about and you tell me I am wrong. It is not about reasonings but about having seen incensings before and knowing what they are about. I can assure you that the pope was not offering incense to Mary. It just isn't ever done in the Catholic Church. Incense is used as a blessing and every time I've seen it used the prayers going with it are to God. That is a fact. You likely would have condemended the Jews for bowing before the Ark of the Covenant in Josh 7 but God granted them victory on the next day.

Of course all this demonstrates your prejudices which you have clearly displayed on this board.

 

[smiling_grin]

Robert, none of what you first said matters! If you have received Jesus in your heart and are truly saved and now see as God has opened your eyes that the Catholic church is a circus, GET OUT. Satan's keeping you in bondage. God is convicting you and you won't listen. This is very obvious. You are free to leave the Catholic church! You will grow in Christ.

And as for your #1-5....boy that brings back memories for me when I was attending mass EVERY SINGLE WEEK. It is planted deep into my brain, unfortunately, as it has been recited over and over and over again. They brainwash people by "programming" them with their evil chanting.

Where is there evil chanting in the Mass?

I am a Catholic and I have considered leaving in the past because of my misunderstandings. Now I understand, and I choose to remain Catholic, because I know it is not heretical. I am growing in Christ in the Catholic Church.

Could you please explain what Satan, :-? programming :-? :robot:, and circuses have to do with the Catholic Church? I would like to understand your views, I've always been curious.

 

[francisdesales]

Re: reply

just to show you how wrong the Catholic church is, Iknow I shouldn't have quoted your post when I wrote that above, but I did. Atonement had posted a picture of the pope offering a burnt inscense to a huge statue of Mary, thanking her for something! Just pointing out something that you as a Catholic seem to keep defending, that is JUST WRONG!

Sisterchristian,

You are mistaken. During high Mass, the priest ALSO INCENSES THE PEOPLE IN THE PEWS.

Does this mean that the Catholic Church believe that the people are all God???

Regards